Mike Martz presence in our pass offense?

ScipioCowboy · Aug 7, 2019

Martz is a Coryell guy. Garrett is a Coryell guy. It’s the offense the Cowboys have been running since the 90s with brief respites under Parcells and Bruce Coslett.

TheMarathonContinues · Aug 7, 2019

Kevinicus said:
And Alex Smith was still a limiting factor on the offense.

Some truth to that especially towards the end of the season.

Aerolithe_Lion · Aug 7, 2019

rocyaice said:
No I think Alex Smith is a conservative quarterback. Isn’t that what was being said? A conservative qb can’t work with a high powered offense?

he said when combining a conservative QB and a conservative HC, you can’t expect big results. And then you brought up Reid to counter that.

visionary said:
Pair a conservative average QB with a conservative average HC on a talented team and you have a team that can make the playoffs but not the SB

You can put high powered HCs with conservative QBs or gunslingers QBs with super conservative OC/HC’s and get great results. But when you have both being passive, you better have a phenomenal defense and run game.

Aerolithe_Lion · Aug 7, 2019

JoeKing said:
His QB put 50 on the board and still lost.

Not a defensive guru, that’s for sure

PA Cowboy Fan · Aug 7, 2019

Aerolithe_Lion said:
Not a defensive guru, that’s for sure

Didn't care about defense one bit.

quickccc · Aug 7, 2019

erod said:
Martz was known for getting his quarterbacks maimed, so let's hope not.

He dang near killed Kurt Warner.

understand, we are not talking mimicking the actual mike martz offense.
- this is more about implementing certain aspects and philosophy from what Kitna said he learned from Martz in terms of getting the ball out quickly, pushing the ball vertically downfield more,
designing the attack where we can get these speedy skill guys on the move and in space to better exploit their run skills in open field as well as over the top of defenses on occasions.
We are not subbing our smash mouth approach for another version of Greatest Show on turf.
And we are already running similar rhythm time based pass offense that both Garrett and Martz learned and evolved from under that philosophy tree.

quickccc · Aug 7, 2019

ScipioCowboy said:
Martz is a Coryell guy. Garrett is a Coryell guy. It’s the offense the Cowboys have been running since the 90s with brief respites under Parcells and Bruce Coslett.

didn't Garrett (and Aikman) learned that rhythm time based offense from Norv Turner ?

Aerolithe_Lion · Aug 7, 2019

PA Cowboy Fan said:
Didn't care about defense one bit.

That’s what you have to do if you’re a specialist HC.

Belichick is a glorified linebackers coach. That’s his specialty. That’s why they havent had an official D coordinator in 2 years, give him a puppet that’ll do what he wants. That’s also why they’re paying Josh McDaniels so much to run the O, a former head coach. Why Philadelphia hired a former HC to run their D, why Sean McVay got a former HC to run his, and Reid finally got one to run his. That’s the winning trend.

PAPPYDOG · Aug 7, 2019

3rd_n_inches said:
Giving Dak the green light to attack might save us from watching a late game 45 yard FG attempt to send it to OT

Defenses will love the Dak-Attack...... now I wonder why?

Maybe he will be once again Lucky Dak as he had at least 6-7 pick 6"s dropped by defenses last year.

We gonna see a ton of these if Zeke ain't running...

erod · Aug 7, 2019

quickccc said:
understand, we are not talking mimicking the actual mike martz offense.
- this is more about implementing certain aspects and philosophy from what Kitna said he learned from Martz in terms of getting the ball out quickly, pushing the ball vertically downfield more,
designing the attack where we can get these speedy skill guys on the move and in space to better exploit their run skills in open field as well as over the top of defenses on occasions.
We are not subbing our smash mouth approach for another version of Greatest Show on turf.
And we are already running similar rhythm time based pass offense that both Garrett and Martz learned and evolved from under that philosophy tree.

Just saying there's a reason nobody wants Martz.

sean10mm · Aug 7, 2019

quickccc said:
didn't Garrett (and Aikman) learned that rhythm time based offense from Norv Turner ?

Who was a disciple of Coryell, yeah.

erod said:
Just saying there's a reason nobody wants Martz.

He could could only succeed when he had elite talent all over the field, and tended to set up his QBs to take a lot of unnecessary kill shots.

erod · Aug 7, 2019

sean10mm said:
Who was a disciple of Coryell, yeah.

He could could only succeed when he had elite talent all over the field, and tended to set up his QBs to take a lot of unnecessary kill shots.

He was an egomaniac who resented success from running the ball. Must like Dan Marino.

sean10mm · Aug 7, 2019

erod said:
He was an egomaniac who resented success from running the ball. Must like Dan Marino.

At least Miami had trash tier running backs most years, Martz had Marshall Faulk and Steven Jackson.

McKDaddy · Aug 7, 2019

Going back to the original post, ANY success at threatening all levels of the field will make the running game much more dangerous & explosive.

If Zeke played with Alex the last 3 years He would have another 600 yds on his resume[/QUOTE]

If Zeke hadn't faced stacked boxes his entire career and they had used him more in the passing game the first two seasons, yes he would have even more impressive numbers no doubt.

ClintDagger · Aug 7, 2019

Einstein said:
Conservative HC... would you say Bill Parcells was conservative? Conservative QB... how about Phil Simms? Well those two won a SB together.

It can be done but I’m guessing most if not all instances of a non-franchise type QB winning a Super Bowl are paired with either a HOF level coach or a GOAT worthy argument defense (probably both). I don’t think Dallas has anything close to either.

TheMarathonContinues · Aug 7, 2019

Aerolithe_Lion said:
he said when combining a conservative QB and a conservative HC, you can’t expect big results. And then you brought up Reid to counter that.

You can put high powered HCs with conservative QBs or gunslingers QBs with super conservative OC/HC’s and get great results. But when you have both being passive, you better have a phenomenal defense and run game.

Reid and Smith didn’t have results?

dckid · Aug 7, 2019

quickccc said:
i'm hearing QB coach Jon Kitna interview on 105.3 the fan, and how he likes to input an aggressive mindset in this pass offense and letting it rip.

I hear the name of Kitna's past offensive coach Mike Martz coming up a lot and Kitna is made reference to how Martz approach is constantly pushing the ball vertically down the field. Getting the ball to your best offensive players. This won't be greatest show on turf. We are a run-attack team first. But i'd love to push and test defenses deep and get more away from the dink and dunk approach under Dak.

Though I've read articles of how Dak is the one that is liking the push ball down field and taking the deep shots, i'm more for believing Kitna has bought into and the one pushing these QBs to take more shots and getting the ball better into open spots, and how to better attack defenses.

Instead of committing to taking what the defense gives you- You take what you want from a defense.
you dictate and make the defense adjusts to you, rather than you have to alter your game and do what a defense wants you to do.

Even if it's a couple of incomplete overthrows, I really like the idea of taking far more shots over the top of defenses with quick strike TDs or big chunk plays, we don't stretch out the field and gain defenses respect and fear like we should. And it also opens up a lot of spacing upfront to give zeke more room to maneuver.

i'm excited to see what happens with this Moore/Kitna/Husseheimer (sp) Garrett coaching group.
It's sounds like a great plan upfront, worth seeing how it turns out.

If Dak can turn into Warner, Trent Green or even Marc Bulger I am all for it.
I think we have Cooper, who could be a facsimile of Bruce or Holt.
We don't use Zeke like Faulk, even though I wish we would.

BTW i'm glad Kitna has this mindset. I agree with going out swinging and trying to force the issue to try and win vs, 8-8 anyday.
8-8 is the worst place to be. Kissing your sister, eating at McDonalds.. no thank you
This mindset is what the Rams, Bears, Eagles , Chiefs used last year.
Once you get into the playoffs its two or three wins to get to a SB. Be aggressive, play and coach to win. Even though I down played Dak earlier in this post. We should really utilize his running a lot more, similar to what Seattle does with Wilson. More designed runs, more RPO, more Play action. Play action always works, if you can hold the secondary for even a second you have the advantage.

3rd_n_inches · Aug 7, 2019

PAPPYDOG said:
Defenses will love the Dak-Attack...... now I wonder why?

Maybe he will be once again Lucky Dak as he had at least 6-7 pick 6"s dropped by defenses last year.

We gonna see a ton of these if Zeke ain't running...

StuckMojo · Aug 7, 2019

I love a great run game but Linehan went to the slow developing handoff up the center's butt way too much. I would like to get more aggressive on offense and use all our weapons. You don't have to throw 20 bombs a game but you can get more creative on the routes and even hitting short routes while the wr is running. it seemed all the short routes were while the WR or RB was standing still. Let's roll Dak out and move the pocket around, take advantage of his strengths.

Mike Martz presence in our pass offense?

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.

TheMarathonContinues

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Aerolithe_Lion

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PA Cowboy Fan

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PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!

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