Trysten Hill is not a bust

jaythecowboy · Aug 14, 2019

Hill was never meant to be a day - 1 starter over Maliek Collins.

America's Cowboy · Aug 14, 2019

waldoputty said:
there is a very simple reason why i asked you who walker played against and how much did he played.
it is because we should know whether hill was tired out against the 1st team and 2nd team.
rookies typically get tired after a relatively low number of plays.

44% success when you have lee, dlaw, jaylon, chido - that is 4 out of 9 already.
then the remaining is carter, escobar, gregory, cwilliams and hill
cwilliams was a starter last year and likely a starter this year with the weight
that makes it 5 multi year starters out of 9 - that is over 50%
escobar is the total failure.
gregory contributed in 18 and we still have 2 years of cheap salary
carter was a starter with dallas and starter else where.
that is how people grade draft pickers - do you get multi year starters.
you were given the statistics and the cowboys are well above average
so now you want to write off hill after his 1st preseason game.
i am taking the trouble to give you the well proven stats over more ten years of draft results across the nfl for drafting multi year starters
and any idiot should be able to see the cowboys do very well compared to the norm for 2nd round picks.
as even an idiot with iq of 90 should be able to read that the average success of dl at 2nd round is 26%
although the 2 idiots i had to ignore may have iq below 80 so they probably lack the ability to understand that.
those are odds of getting a starter in the dl in the 2nd round.
why? because dl is more critical than dbs and it is harder to get them.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

Lee has never played a whole season without injury. Carter didn't last here. Gregory has hardly been available or played. Escobar was a total bust. Hill has not started off well...at all. 0 tackles, not even an assisted tackle or even a QB pressure after playing for 55% of all defensive snaps. Not good.

waldoputty · Aug 14, 2019

America's Cowboy said:
Lee has never played a whole season without injury. Carter didn't last here. Gregory has hardly been available or played. Escobar was a total bust. Hill has not started off well...at all. 0 tackles, not even an assisted tackle or even a QB pressure after playing for 55% of all defensive snaps. Not good.

lee was a pro bowler - that is far beyond a starter
carter was a starter here and a starter else where.
considering a ~55% hit rate for lb's in 2nd round, that is 2 for 2.
include jaylon, that is 3 for 3, pretty darn good.

gregory has played 1 full year and more and contribute - and we still have him for 2 more years of cheap play AND the nfl is going towards a tolerant attitude towards weed. considering a 26% hit rate for dl in 2nd round, that would be a big win
hill has played 1 preseason game. ONE GAME
there has been many people freaking out on draft picks
like those who freaked while jaylon were recovering
and those who freaked cwilliams getting pushed around most of last years

players in the interior time take time
would all of us want to see hill get 2 sacks and 5 tackles, of course.
but this is just ONE PRESEASON GAME
take a deep breathe and enjoy the preseason.
we have lacked a big dt with motor for as long as marinelli has been here.
this is the 1st one with the physical traits in terms of SPARQ scores, so lets hope he works out.
those with his type of sparq and good performance in college go in the 1st round like q williams and ed oliver.
the odds are against him given only 26% work out for 2nd round picks.
but i would give marinelli the benefit of doubt as he had worked with sapp and other big hits. sapp was not a small quick dt, but a big dt (for his time) who could move.

Alexander · Aug 14, 2019

jaythecowboy said:
Hill was never meant to be a day - 1 starter over Maliek Collins.

No, but that still doesn't mean it is okay for him to be stonewalled in practice with regularity by the likes of Adam Redmond, nor to register no tackles and no assists against the 49ers backups.

But hey, let's just be patient with the youngster. He is getting his butt kicked by players who will likely be in the XFL in 2020.

These kind of things take time. And stuff.

America's Cowboy · Aug 14, 2019

waldoputty said:
lee was a pro bowler - that is far beyond a starter
carter was a starter here and a starter else where.
considering a ~55% hit rate for lb's in 2nd round, that is 2 for 2.
include jaylon, that is 3 for 3, pretty darn good.

gregory has played 1 full year and more and contribute - and we still have him for 2 more years of cheap play AND the nfl is going towards a tolerant attitude towards weed. considering a 26% hit rate for dl in 2nd round, that would be a big win
hill has played 1 preseason game. ONE GAME
there has been many people freaking out on draft picks
like those who freaked while jaylon were recovering
and those who freaked cwilliams getting pushed around most of last years

players in the interior time take time
would all of us want to see hill get 2 sacks and 5 tackles, of course.
but this is just ONE PRESEASON GAME
take a deep breathe and enjoy the preseason.
we have lacked a big dt with motor for as long as marinelli has been here.
this is the 1st one with the physical traits in terms of SPARQ scores, so lets hope he works out.
those with his type of sparq and good performance in college go in the 1st round like q williams and ed oliver.
the odds are against him given only 26% work out for 2nd round picks.
but i would give marinelli the benefit of doubt as he had worked with sapp and other big hits. sapp was not a small quick dt, but a big dt (for his time) who could move.

What does this interior Dline need? A Warren Sapp "shoot the gap" type or a double-teamed hole plugger? We've been getting run up the gut for many years. Remember how the Colts and Rams ran on us. Can Hill become a hole plugger or was he drafted to be a gap shooter who can be pushed past the rush? What do you prefer?

Scotman · Aug 14, 2019

jazzcat22 said:
Don't believe all those reports. How many players coming out of college had stuff like that said, but were the opposite in the NFL.
And those reports have been explained and debunked for the most part.

I don't know, man. Have you seen his haircut?

/jk

gmoney112 · Aug 14, 2019

I wasn't expecting Hill to do anything year 1 anyway. Which is why I would have preferred to sign a DT that could generate some pass rush, since we actually have a pretty good squad this year.

Even 1st round DTs usually take a year or two. Jarran Reed would have been called a bust in Dallas. Just like Demarcus Lawrence was.

Seems to be a lot of fancy boys giving the same lip service they gave DLaw. But that's none of my business

Section446 · Aug 14, 2019

Who's calling him a bust? Dude hasn't even played in a real game yet.

RS12 · Aug 14, 2019

I dont recall any bust posts. I do recall some invisible posts. I personally didnt expect a guy with some red flags to light it up right away. Hopefully we see progress as the season goes on. I do wonder who made the final call on this pick though.

waldoputty · Aug 14, 2019

America's Cowboy said:
What does this interior Dline need? A Warren Sapp "shoot the gap" type or a double-teamed hole plugger? We've been getting run up the gut for many years. Remember how the Colts and Rams ran on us. Can Hill become a hole plugger or was he drafted to be a gap shooter who can be pushed past the rush? What do you prefer?

i think the reason marinelli was in love with hill was that he could shoot the gap as well as having the size to hold up against the run. he IS NOT the typical 280lb marinelli gap shooter.

i would like to see someone at least 300lb for the interior lineman. he was 308lb at the combine after playing the year at 320-330lb.

if you look at hill's combine stats, his bench reps is a little low at 28. ed oliver drafted at #10 had 32. so he is a bit weak in the upper body even though he is much larger than oliver (308lb vs 285lb). that is one stat that is easily fixed after a full season, as we saw with cwilliams. i think we will get the gap shooting this year, but the strength part will probably have to wait.

kskboys · Aug 14, 2019

America's Cowboy said:
What does this interior Dline need? A Warren Sapp "shoot the gap" type or a double-teamed hole plugger? We've been getting run up the gut for many years. Remember how the Colts and Rams ran on us. Can Hill become a hole plugger or was he drafted to be a gap shooter who can be pushed past the rush? What do you prefer?

He's a gap shooter. We need a plugger, no doubt. Woods is a good plugger, but needs a rotational guy to spell him. Maybe he wouldn't get hurt then.

Verdict · Aug 14, 2019

jazzcat22 said:
I keep seeing threads and posts about Hill being a bust.
Now this is the usual crap from the sky is falling and the Debbie downers, and the usuals that do not like anything.

But to listen to the team, they are are happy with his play and his progress. They liked his never give up attitude and the power the shows. They thought he had a good effort and game against SF. Garrett did say he need to learn still. But they like his progress and he looks the player that knew they drafted.

One PS game and the guy did not have 17 sacks like fans want, so now he is the next player such as LVE was last year, labeled a bust. Typical crap.

They also loved the Golden Cock and George Selvie. I’m not sure I would put a lot of stock in that statement.

Johnny23 · Aug 15, 2019

jaythecowboy said:
Hill was never meant to be a day - 1 starter over Maliek Collins.

Which makes the pick even more stupid. I thought we'd turned the corner and stopped drafting backups in rounds you draft starters. That's the spin.

jazzcat22 · Aug 15, 2019

Verdict said:
They also loved the Golden Cock and George Selvie. I’m not sure I would put a lot of stock in that statement.

An UDFA and a FA pickup that were here because they had no one else and had to play someone. As opposed to a 2nd round draft pick. In which everyone was claiming for years they never draft a DT high. Then when they do, they don't like it.
Well ok then.

Flamma · Aug 15, 2019

Johnny23 said:
Which makes the pick even more stupid. I thought we'd turned the corner and stopped drafting backups in rounds you draft starters. That's the spin.

I never thought he was a bust, just not needed for the reason you mentioned. How many people thought he would start? Either S Thornhill or D.K. Metcalf when he fell to us. We needed the S more, but I still would have liked to see Metcalf get picked. I think either one would have started.

xwalker · Aug 15, 2019

Alexander said:
No, but that still doesn't mean it is okay for him to be stonewalled in practice with regularity by the likes of Adam Redmond, nor to register no tackles and no assists against the 49ers backups.

But hey, let's just be patient with the youngster. He is getting his butt kicked by players who will likely be in the XFL in 2020.

These kind of things take time. And stuff.

I saw one practice rep with Hill bull-rushing Redmond to the point it looked like Donkey Kong Suh vs Phil Costa...

They have Hill working on technique. The goal on most practice snaps is to develop the correct technique, not to win the rep per se.

xwalker · Aug 15, 2019

Johnny23 said:
Which makes the pick even more stupid. I thought we'd turned the corner and stopped drafting backups in rounds you draft starters. That's the spin.

Why did other team waste top 10 picks on DLinemen if they could just draft instant starters with late 2nd round picks?

I'm not certain if people just don't have the intellectual ability to use logic OR if emotion turns off people's ability to use logic.

jaythecowboy · Aug 15, 2019

Johnny23 said:
Which makes the pick even more stupid. I thought we'd turned the corner and stopped drafting backups in rounds you draft starters. That's the spin.

I think that view is overly simplistic. The 58th pick is basically a 3rd anyway.

Flamma said:
I never thought he was a bust, just not needed for the reason you mentioned. How many people thought he would start? Either S Thornhill or D.K. Metcalf when he fell to us. We needed the S more, but I still would have liked to see Metcalf get picked. I think either one would have started.

You can't just look at two feet in front of your face. You have to look at the longterm. This gives them a fallback plan if Maliek Collins leaves. You could have a 2nd year player ready to slide into his spot so you aren't forced to pay Collins if you don't want to.

mrmojo · Aug 15, 2019

Juan Thornhill reportedly starting for Kansas City Chiefs after first preseason game..............ugh could have had him.

Flamma · Aug 15, 2019

jaythecowboy said:
You can't just look at two feet in front of your face. You have to look at the longterm. This gives them a fallback plan if Maliek Collins leaves. You could have a 2nd year player ready to slide into his spot so you aren't forced to pay Collins if you don't want to.

I was just giving my opinion of who we should have taken. This could all work out well and I hope it does. But based on what the Cowboys want to do in the here and now, I would not have drafted Hill. But again, I do not think he's a bust.

Trysten Hill is not a bust

jaythecowboy

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America's Cowboy

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waldoputty

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Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?

America's Cowboy

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Scotman

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gmoney112

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Section446

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RS12

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waldoputty

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kskboys

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Verdict

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Johnny23

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jazzcat22

Flamma

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xwalker

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jaythecowboy

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