Taco seems to have bust written all over him

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,925
Reaction score
64,361
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
No need to get your panties in a wad
I gave you actual stats
Which of those facts are not true ?
Now presenting inconvenient facts is trolling?
I'm certain that you know sacks in playoff games as a stat is a small sample size problem.

DLaw might actually under perform in the playoffs but using sacks stats is a waste of time. Pressures would be a much better stat to evaluate him.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Since 2014 huh... I love how you count 4th round injury busts like Tapper against him, and ignore that he pounded the table for D-Law then molded him into an All-Pro. Doesn't fit the narrative.

So, he makes one good pick on the DL (whIch I credited), and he gets a pass for how many other bad picks? Thats not how this works. Go make up your own narrative if you don't like mine.
 

waldoputty

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,375
Reaction score
21,163
So, he makes one good pick on the DL (whIch I credited), and he gets a pass for how many other bad picks? Thats not how this works. Go make up your own narrative if you don't like mine.

i think we have been spoiled by the recent success in drafting.
historically, teams average about 50% in drafting a starting dl in the 1st round and 25% in the 2nd round. and the odds go down from there.
 

big dog cowboy

THE BIG DOG
Staff member
Messages
96,954
Reaction score
99,064
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Since 2014 huh... I love how you count 4th round injury busts like Tapper against him
In training camp he was diagnosed with a pre-existing back condition (pars defect) that had gone unnoticed since birth.

Pretty hard to consider that a bust when something off the field ended his career.
 

beware_d-ware

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,369
Reaction score
8,957
In training camp he was diagnosed with a pre-existing back condition (pars defect) that had gone unnoticed since birth.

Pretty hard to consider that a bust when something off the field ended his career.

That was a pick that yielded no dividends, so I don't know what to call it besides a bust, but agreed that Tapper back wasn't a scouting misevaluation on Rod's part nor the team's part.

Injuries and medical issues will happen. Maliek Collins had a totally clean bill of health coming out of Nebraska, never missed a game there, and he's had 3 broken feet since he's been on the Cowboys. That's complicated his evaluation to date, but it's not something you can blame Marinelli for. Choosing to blame Marinelli for factors outside of his control shows that there is some bias at play.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
i think we have been spoiled by the recent success in drafting.
historically, teams average about 50% in drafting a starting dl in the 1st round and 25% in the 2nd round. and the odds go down from there.

Too many DL picks yield no dividends.
 

CowboyRoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,924
Reaction score
38,930
First anything outside of the 3rd round is always a long shot so taking a 5 round look is a bit strange.

Also HIll not looking good? After exactly 1 preseason game under his NFL career? LOL

Thus far in camp and in one preseason, Hill has not impressed. That's not a criticism as much as its just a fact. He may play great tonight.
 

waldoputty

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,375
Reaction score
21,163
Too many DL picks yield no dividends.

try adding the probabilities together of the drafted picks at their respective rounds.
if you dont count hill who future has yet to be determined, you will get about 1 starting dl (50% for taco +25% for dlaw +25% for gregory + several 10%-15% lottery tickets), nevermind a probowler and a starter in dlaw and mcollins.
and you get gregory would has contributed when he is allowed to play in the low round picks who are lottery tickets with about 15-25% each.
if one looks at it rationally based on well proven statistics, they have drafted really well at the dl.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
try adding the probabilities together of the drafted picks at their respective rounds.
if you dont count hill who future has yet to be determined, you will get about 1 starting dl (50% for taco +25% for dlaw +25% for gregory + several 10%-15% lottery tickets), nevermind a probowler and a starter in dlaw and mcollins.
and you get gregory would has contributed when he is allowed to play in the low round picks who are lottery tickets with about 15-25% each.
if one looks at it rationally based on well proven statistics, they have drafted really well at the dl.

Collins is a JAG. Gregory is a bust. Taco is a bust. So, that nullifies your math. lol

Fact is that Marinelli has found 1 pro bowl DL in 7 drafts. Thats not good enough on any team.
 

waldoputty

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,375
Reaction score
21,163
Collins is a JAG. Gregory is a bust. Taco is a bust. So, that nullifies your math. lol

Fact is that Marinelli has found 1 pro bowl DL in 7 drafts. Thats not good enough on any team.
drafting is based on the resources you put in it.
in the last 7 years
there has been 1 1st round, 3 2nd round, 2 3rd round with sprinkle of late round picks
taco is unknown who could be a big bust or not - this is his 3rd year going in
2nd round dlaw is star
2nd round hill is rookie tbd
2nd round gregory played in 1.5 seasons and will be in a cheap contract for 2 more years when he returns (see gordon for patriots)
3rd round crawford is an average starter
3rd round collin is a decent starter who is injured 25% to 40% of the time

they simply are doing significantly better than typical team.
these are the odds of drafting multi year starter (not pro bowl) based on all teams for more than 10 years
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
drafting is based on the resources you put in it.
in the last 7 years
there has been 1 1st round, 3 2nd round, 2 3rd round with sprinkle of late round picks
taco is unknown who could be a big bust or not - this is his 3rd year going in
2nd round dlaw is star
2nd round hill is rookie tbd
2nd round gregory played in 1.5 seasons and will be in a cheap contract for 2 more years when he returns (see gordon for patriots)
3rd round crawford is an average starter
3rd round collin is a decent starter who is injured 25% to 40% of the time

they simply are doing significantly better than typical team.
these are the odds of drafting multi year starter (not pro bowl) based on all teams for more than 10 years
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

Marinelli had nothing to do with drafting Tyrone Crawford.
Gregory is a bust by any definition of the word
Taco is not an "unknown". He's a first round bust so far. We've seen him for 2 seasons and he's not even an average NFL player. Bust
Hill isn't a bust yet, but he's pretty aweful so far and was not even a good college football player in AAC. No positive signs that was a good pick
Collins would have a tough time making another NFL roster.

So, your claim that Marinelli is doing better than statical prediction is garbage predicated on your rosy player evals and flat out misinformation.
 
Last edited:

waldoputty

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,375
Reaction score
21,163
Marinelli had nothing to do with drafting Tyrone Crawford.
Gregory is a bust by any definition of the word
Taco is not an "unknown". He's a first round bust so far. We've seen him for 2 seasons and he's not even an average NFL player. Bust
Hill isn't a bust yet, but he's pretty aweful so far and was not even a good college football player in AAC. No positive signs that was a good pick
Collins would have a tough time making another NFL roster.

So, your claim that Marinelli is doing better than statical prediction is garbage predicated on your rosy player evals and flat out misinformation.

ok u r right on crawford
what is the typical number of years before someone really grades a draft?
parcells said 3?

gregory's play is fine.
it will take many years to get those years out of him
but it appears we will get those years given what just happened today with pot and players
i actually would rahter have gregory come back next year than this year

those are not statistical prediction.
those are statistic results.
you just have been spoiled by the good drafts relative to the norm.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
ok u r right on crawford
what is the typical number of years before someone really grades a draft?
parcells said 3?

gregory's play is fine.
it will take many years to get those years out of him
but it appears we will get those years given what just happened today with pot and players
i actually would rahter have gregory come back next year than this year

those are not statistical prediction.
those are statistic results.
you just have been spoiled by the good drafts relative to the norm.

How can you say Gregory is "fine" when he can't pass a drug test? He's literally missed more games due to suspension that he's played. He's a top 5 talent but he's given us very little value in the 4 years he's been a cowboy. Hell, we could have had Frank Clark who Seattle picked 2 picks after Gregory. Imagine how much better the defense would have been the last 4 years if we had that guy instead of gregory. Until the NFL revamps its weed policy, Gregory is a worthless player and that second round pick was wasted.

Fact is that if you look at every cowboy draft involving Marinelli, he's done very poorly on the DL. He's done better with journeymen than his own picks. My entire point is that he's better coaching than he is evaluating college players.
 

waldoputty

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,375
Reaction score
21,163
How can you say Gregory is "fine" when he can't pass a drug test? He's literally missed more games due to suspension that he's played. He's a top 5 talent but he's given us very little value in the 4 years he's been a cowboy. Hell, we could have had Frank Clark who Seattle picked 2 picks after Gregory. Imagine how much better the defense would have been the last 4 years if we had that guy instead of gregory. Until the NFL revamps its weed policy, Gregory is a worthless player and that second round pick was wasted.

Fact is that if you look at every cowboy draft involving Marinelli, he's done very poorly on the DL. He's done better with journeymen than his own picks. My entire point is that he's better coaching than he is evaluating college players.

simple, we got him for 2 more cheap years.
simply looking for a starter rde so we got value for the draft pick.
if we did not draft him, we would not have gotten him this cheap.
 
Top