Would any other team in the NFL give Prescott 35 million?

LatinMind

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Personally, I don't think it's as hard to pick QBs as it's made out to be. I mean, if you look back at the Quincy years, that was not a situation that occurred because we couldn't judge talent. It happened as a direct result of not managing the cap. We knew who the good QBs were. We just didn't have the resources to go out and get one. This is what over spending on the cap gets you but people seem to forget that. Quincy was here because we didn't have the draft picks and we didn't have the money to get a real QB. Teams draft QBs and then put them in situations where they can only fail. I mean, it's stupid to watch a lot of times. I look at a team like the Cards and I think that's exactly what they have done. They did it when they drafted Rosen and I think they have done it again with Murray. I've seen it time and time again in the NFL. I feel like the Cowboys are in a great place right now with their roster, in terms of talent. I believe that if the Cowboys brought in a Vet with some talent, he could do very well with this team. A guy like Foles or Carr or several others, could challenge for a championship IMO. A stud that could be your cornerstone Franchise guy could lead you to a Dynasty run. The hard part is putting a team in place to be able to allow a young QB, or any QB really, to have a shot at success. Most times, teams are bringing in QBs because they are in a desperate situation. They are looking for a savior or they have lost their starter to injury and are forced to scrap the bottom of the barrel in hopes of finding somebody. That's not us. If we decided to move on, trust me when I say that there would be a lot of interest from QBs who are available, to come to Dallas. Virtually any QB in the league would want to come to Dallas to play. Look at how Pittsburgh did it when they drafted Ruthlessraper. He came into a situation where the Steelers were solid top to bottom. What did he do? Two Super Bowls in his first four years. I am not afraid of having to go out and draft a QB. I think that there are several in this next draft that could become really good QBs in the right situation and we have that right now, in Dallas. The cap we save if we go that way sets this teams core for years and likely allows us to compete for multiple championship runs. We could go out and sign an experienced FA. We could draft a Franchise guy next year. I am not afraid of moving on from Dak because I know that the foundation of this team is good enough that a reasonably talented QB can compete for a championship right now.

That's what I believe.
On the Quincy topic, Parcells is on record saying he thought if Q couldve controlled his deamons off the field, he would've been a good QB and his QB in Dallas. I think it was on the dallas documentary of his,
 

OmerV

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You are mixing and matching here. You said that it's hard to find a QB. I said that I don't believe it is, that it's often the situation you put them in. If the Cowboys tag Dak and he signs elsewhere, that gives the Cowboys three 1st round picks. That's enough to move up to get one of the QBs available next year. The problem is being in a position to take the talent at QB, it's not figuring out who has talent IMO. This proves nothing to me.

How am I mixing and matching. Everything I wrote was about the same thing - it being hard to find a quality QB.

And sure sometimes QBs aren't put in good situations, but I didn't just name a couple of situations that can be explained away that easily, I set out example after example where teams stuggled, and/or still are struggling, to find a quality QB.

I think part of what you may be missing is that QB isn't just about physical talent. You are right in saying that it isn't that hard to figure that part out - things like size, strength, arm strength, agility and speed are measurable. It's determining the intangibles - leadership, confidence, instincts, temperament, willingness to put team needs over personal glory etc .. - those are the things that cause teams to miss so often when judging QBs.

By the way, if the Cowboys give Dak the exclusive franchise tag, he can't just go sign elsewhere, and even if they go with the non-exclusive tag, nobody is going to give up 3 1st rounders.
 
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ABQCOWBOY

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On the Quincy topic, Parcells is on record saying he thought if Q couldve controlled his deamons off the field, he would've been a good QB and his QB in Dallas. I think it was on the dallas documentary of his,

Well, if he could have controlled that and gotten a lot more accurate, possibly but lets be honest here, there is a reason the NFL looked at Quincy and rated him as no better then a 4th round pick. We took him way early but that's another story, however, it does speak to the point that we screwed ourselves up so badly with the cap that we not only took him too early, we took a guy at the most important position on the team with these kinds of issues. That would never happen today because we have learned the lesson of Quincy. I mean, it is what it is unfortunately.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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How am I mixing and matching. Everything I wrote was about the same thing - it being hard to find a quality QB.

And sure sometimes QBs aren't put in good situations, but I didn't just name a couple of situations that can be explained away that easily, I set out example after example where teams stuggled, and/or still are struggling, to find a quality QB.

I think part of what you may be missing is that QB isn't just about physical talent. You are right in saying that it isn't that hard to figure that part out - things like size, strength, arm strength, agility and speed are measurable. It's determining the intangibles - leadership, confidence, instincts, temperament, willingness to put team needs over personal glory etc .. - those are the things that cause teams to miss so often when judging QBs.

By the way, if the Cowboys give Dak the franchise tag, he can't just go sign elsewhere.

I don't believe that and I said this up front. I don't agree with you. I don't believe its hard to find talent. I believe it's hard to create a situation for a young QB that allows them to be successful. That's the hard part, IMO. We already have that part licked so I am not afraid to move on from Dak. That's not my first choice but if he persists with his contract demands, I'm OK with it.

In terms of tagging Dak, that is correct and it's also the point. There is no reason for the Cowboys to just allow him to leave. If, as he and his agent and many on this board insist, that his market value is 35 to 40, then tag him and go find a team that will do that. I mean, I'm on record here as saying that it will never happen but if it does, cool. The down side is that we get two 1st round picks, to go with our existing and that provides more then enough ammunition to move up to get one of the top QBs. If that doesn't happen and no team offers that, then his value is not 35 to 40 and he and his agent are forced to deal with the reality of the fact that Jerry is offering the best deal out there and I mean, I've said many times that nobody values Dak more then we do so I just don't believe anybody offers him that deal over a long term contract. Either way, I'm OK to test the theory. I'm OK with moving on from him, if that is how it plays out.
 

OmerV

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I don't believe that and I said this up front. I don't agree with you. I don't believe it hard to find talent. I believe it's hard to create a situation for a young QB that allows them to be successful. That's the hard part, IMO. We already have that part licked so I am not afraid to move on from Dak. That's not my first choice but if he persists with his contract demands, I'm OK with it.

In terms of tagging Dak, that is correct and it's also the point. There is no reason for the Cowboys to just allow him to leave. If, as he and his agent and many on this board insist, that his market value is 35 to 40, then tag him and go find a team that will do that. I mean, I'm on record here as saying that it will never happen but if it does, cool. The down side is that we get two 1st round picks, to go with our existing and that provides more then enough ammunition to move up to get one of the top QBs. If that doesn't happen and no team offers that, then his value is not 35 to 40 and he and his agent are forced to deal with the reality of the fact that Jerry is offering the best deal out there and I mean, I've said many times that nobody values Dak more then we do so I just don't believe anybody offers him that deal over a long term contract. Either way, I'm OK to test the theory. I'm OK with moving on from him, if that is how it plays out.

I don't believe his market value is North of $35MM either, but on everything else we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think you can just explain away the often and sometimes ongoing difficulties so many teams have filling the QB position by saying all the ones that fail are just put in bad situations, and I don't believe you can ignore the fact that the reason QB prices are so high is because teams feel there is such a limited supply of quality QBs that they are willing to pay exorbitant prices to get one.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I don't believe his market value is North of $35MM either, but on everything else we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think you can just explain away the often and sometimes ongoing difficulties so many teams have filling the QB position by saying all the ones that fail are just put it bad situations, and I don't believe you can ignore the fact that the reason QB prices are so high is because teams feel there is such a limited supply of quality QBs that they are willing to pay exorbitant prices to get one.

Yes, we will.

I don't believe he's worth north of 35, I don't believe he is worth 35, I don't believe he is worth 30 but that's what the team has offered so I'm OK with it. Either way, we will soon see.

I believe I have already explained the fallings of teams and QBs but if you want to look at a specific QB and situation, I'm OK with that. Pick one and we can discuss it.

If we were the Cap Strapped team of the early 2Ks, then I would agree with you more closely. However, we aren't that team (yet) and so we don't have to treat the situation as if we were. We would be able to take the top talent in a given draft so the 85 or 90 percent of other teams issues would not apply to us.
 

gjkoeppen

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Personally, I don't think it's as hard to pick QBs as it's made out to be. I mean, if you look back at the Quincy years, that was not a situation that occurred because we couldn't judge talent. It happened as a direct result of not managing the cap. We knew who the good QBs were. We just didn't have the resources to go out and get one. This is what over spending on the cap gets you but people seem to forget that. Quincy was here because we didn't have the draft picks and we didn't have the money to get a real QB. Teams draft QBs and then put them in situations where they can only fail. I mean, it's stupid to watch a lot of times. I look at a team like the Cards and I think that's exactly what they have done. They did it when they drafted Rosen and I think they have done it again with Murray. I've seen it time and time again in the NFL. I feel like the Cowboys are in a great place right now with their roster, in terms of talent. I believe that if the Cowboys brought in a Vet with some talent, he could do very well with this team. A guy like Foles or Carr or several others, could challenge for a championship IMO. A stud that could be your cornerstone Franchise guy could lead you to a Dynasty run. The hard part is putting a team in place to be able to allow a young QB, or any QB really, to have a shot at success. Most times, teams are bringing in QBs because they are in a desperate situation. They are looking for a savior or they have lost their starter to injury and are forced to scrap the bottom of the barrel in hopes of finding somebody. That's not us. If we decided to move on, trust me when I say that there would be a lot of interest from QBs who are available, to come to Dallas. Virtually any QB in the league would want to come to Dallas to play. Look at how Pittsburgh did it when they drafted Ruthlessraper. He came into a situation where the Steelers were solid top to bottom. What did he do? Two Super Bowls in his first four years. I am not afraid of having to go out and draft a QB. I think that there are several in this next draft that could become really good QBs in the right situation and we have that right now, in Dallas. The cap we save if we go that way sets this teams core for years and likely allows us to compete for multiple championship runs. We could go out and sign an experienced FA. We could draft a Franchise guy next year. I am not afraid of moving on from Dak because I know that the foundation of this team is good enough that a reasonably talented QB can compete for a championship right now.

That's what I believe.

Omerv brought up a very good point. Name the last time that a team signed a free agent QB as their starter that won the Super Bowl. I can think of only one, Peyton Manning, but that hardly makes it anywhere close to a sure fire cure. The only reason he was even available as a free agent is because many didn't think he would be able to play again after his neck injury so the colts released him. As far as your big idea of that it's so easy to draft a good QB, well the list is a mile long of QB's that have been picked as high as the first player picked, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan leaf was a number 2 pick and every number down from there who were complete and total busts in the NFL. If drafting QB's was such an exact science there wouldn't be that mile long list of busts.
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QuincyCarterEra

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Omerv brought up a very good point. Name the last time that a team signed a free agent QB as their starter that won the Super Bowl. I can think of only one, Peyton Manning, but that hardly makes it anywhere close to a sure fire cure. The only reason he was even available as a free agent is because many didn't think he would be able to play again after his neck injury so the colts released him. As far as your big idea of that it's so easy to draft a good QB, well the list is a mile long of QB's that have been picked as high as the first player picked, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan leaf was a number 2 pick and every number down from there who were complete and total busts in the NFL. If drafting QB's was such an exact science there wouldn't be that mile long list of busts.
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Um two years ago when the Eagles won. No reason to limit it to "sign as their starter". That'd be like excluding draft picks that weren't supposed to start.
So the last two non-Patriot wins have been through FA QBs
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Omerv brought up a very good point. Name the last time that a team signed a free agent QB as their starter that won the Super Bowl. I can think of only one, Peyton Manning, but that hardly makes it anywhere close to a sure fire cure. The only reason he was even available as a free agent is because many didn't think he would be able to play again after his neck injury so the colts released him. As far as your big idea of that it's so easy to draft a good QB, well the list is a mile long of QB's that have been picked as high as the first player picked, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan leaf was a number 2 pick and every number down from there who were complete and total busts in the NFL. If drafting QB's was such an exact science there wouldn't be that mile long list of busts.
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It is easy to draft one. It's hard to put them in a situation that allows them to be successful. That's the tough part. You point to Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, that's interesting. I will tell you this. Anybody who thought that Russell was the real deal as an NFL quality QB coming out deserves what they got. I don't think it was hard to see that Russell sucked out loud, in terms of throwing an NFL Football. That, to me, actually proves the point I'm making. He was never an NFL quality QB and it was easy to see. You want to talk about Leaf, that's cool too. Leaf, he was the real deal, in terms of talent. He was more talented, physically, then Manning by a lot IMO. Now obviously, Manning had other qualities that set him apart and that's fair, that's why he was the number one guy that year but Leaf was the real deal. He was just immature and it was a mistake to take him, and put him in SoCal and give him all this money at such an early age. The situation he was in was not good and that too speaks to what I am saying. It's easy to see the talent. It's easy to draft that guy, if you have the assets, but it's hard to put them in a situation where they can be successful. Beathard did it wrong there, they really should have handled him the way GB handled Rogers, who was also a very immature QB with unlimited talent ceiling. Same guy, in terms of those things. I mean, the worst place he could have gone was San Diego but that's what happened. San Diego failed to put him in a situation where he could be great. Now, having said all this, the major issue with Leaf was the injury. He was never the same after that and you can't know that part. That can happen to the greatest of talents and that's just Football. That can happen to Dak tomorrow, you never know so I don't think Leaf is the ideal example there. In fact, I think he is proof that what I am saying is accurate. Perhaps you disagree but I can defend that point pretty easily.

Peyton is not the only or the first FA QB who has won a championship in the NFL. League is full of them to be honest. I mean, if the standard is actually winning a championship, then tell me what guarantee you have that Dak will be able to do that if he never leaves. There is no guarantee that he will be able to do that so why is the standard, FA that will win a championship? I mean, that's what we all want but that is not a given, for sure. If it is, then I want that same guarantee behind Dak if he gets signed. See how that fails here?

I mean, if we want to have an honest discussion around FA QBs, then there are examples. Off the top of my head, I think Foles and Cousins can be pointed to recently. Brett Favre in Minnesota, Rich Gannon, Randell Cunningham, Alex Smith, Kurt Warner, Vinny Testivardi, Kerry Collins, Jake Plummer, our own Tony Romo was an FA, and there are more. I mean, it's not all that uncommon to see, to be honest. The problem is that you just see the same situation repeating itself in FA by these teams that I tried to explain about the draft. If you are bad at drafting Rookies and putting them in situations that allow them to win, then you are more then likely going to be bad at bringing in FA QBs and putting them in positions to win. That just makes sense right?

However, if you want examples of FA QBs who won championships, those are out there too. Brad Johnson, Drew Breez (Yeah, he was an FA), Jim Plunkett, Steve Young, Len Dawson, Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, Johnny Unitas, all FAs, all won Super Bowls. As Cowboy Fans, we are spoiled in that we have drafted QBs who have been fixtures on the team and have gone on to, not only win multiple championships, but have Hall Of Fame Careers. We think that this is the way it has to be at QB but a lot of the league doesn't do it that way. Hell, Washington has done more with FA QBs then probably anybody, in terms of translating FA QBs into championship runs.

So there you go, it's not as hard to find quality at QBs, as many believe. They are out there and it does happen. The problem is, most teams suck at actually putting their QBs, drafted or signed, in situations where they can have a great chance to be successful. As I said in an earlier post, drafting a QB at the top of the draft or signing a good one in FA is more about throwing up a hailmary and less about actually having a real plan to make them successful and competing for a championship. That's the problem in the NFL. We are not one of those teams right now. We are unique in that we have a team that you can put a good QB in and expect them to have a decent chance to compete for a championship. If Dak and his agent want to believe that they have the Cowboys over a barrel and that some other team is going to give up the picks and the money they want, cool. Trade him if one does. But if not, and I think this is more likely, then get serious in your discussions, stop believing these yahoos who keep telling you "Pay The Man" and realize your value in this league, and to this team. This team values him more then anybody else in this league. Stop being stupid, listen to what Jerry is telling you, he takes care of his QBs and you have to be a fool to not realize that. Go take care of your business and win a championship. If you do this, then the world is open to you for the rest of your life. Look at Troy, look at Tony, both of those guys made a lot of money in Football. Both those guys had great careers in Football. Both those guys are at the top of their fields in TV and they have all of that due to Football and Jerry.

I mean, this ain't hard. We are making it harder then it needs to be IMO.
 

LatinMind

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Well, if he could have controlled that and gotten a lot more accurate, possibly but lets be honest here, there is a reason the NFL looked at Quincy and rated him as no better then a 4th round pick. We took him way early but that's another story, however, it does speak to the point that we screwed ourselves up so badly with the cap that we not only took him too early, we took a guy at the most important position on the team with these kinds of issues. That would never happen today because we have learned the lesson of Quincy. I mean, it is what it is unfortunately.

There was some questionable things that messed with the cap, but the real reason they didnt have money on the cap was the injuries and early retirements to Aikmn, Irving, and Johnston. You cant really control that.
 

jnday

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Hahahhaahha....you didn't care for Daniel Jones before the draft but his stellar preseason play as now convinced you that Daniel Jones is a good quarterback. You guys say some of the most foolish stuff I don't know if its for trolling or for arguments sake. Nick Mullens? Yikes.
I never made a post about Jones to express my feelings one way or the other because I didn’t know anything about him IIRC. You must have me confused with another poster. As for Mullins, he is one of several backups around the league that would shine if he played with the takent Dak plays with. Dak has the intangibles, they have QB talent which includes passing ability.
 

jnday

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Man, this is bad.

"Y'all are seriously overrating Dak" the very next post "I would take Mullens over Dak".

Going from not wanting Jones, to taking Jones over Dak because of a few series in two preseason games. That's preposterous.

You are definitely alone in taking backups over Dak, and 95%+ alone in wanting Jones or Haskins over Dak.
I would prefer Jones because his ceiling is much higher than Dak’s ceiling. I know what Dak is. He has been the same since high school. He is not going to magically become a good passer at this stage in his career and he is not going to gain any picket awareness at this point, so prepare yourself for a lot more fumbles.
 

jnday

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Naw Tebow couldn't play, the defense was keeping them in games and he'd make a play in the end and they'd win 12-9 or something.

He'd get all the credit for being a "winner" and having "moxie" when if the only had average QB play the game wouldn't have close. He poor qb play was the reason the needed a last second score to win.
You didn’t notice all of the close games that Dallas had last year. The defense bailed the team out time after time.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I never made a post about Jones to express my feelings one way or the other because I didn’t know anything about him IIRC. You must have me confused with another poster. As for Mullins, he is one of several backups around the league that would shine if he played with the takent Dak plays with. Dak has the intangibles, they have QB talent which includes passing ability.

That's stupid. He couldn't' even shine in preseason against inferior talent and guys halfassing it but I'm suppose to believe he'd flourish with talent? If its that easy to play in the NFL why doesn't anyone else think of it? Why did the Seahawks just spend 35 million Russell when they can just trade for Nick Mullens and build around him? That's a genius concept there.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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People seem to have no idea what the QB market is.

I'll give a hint, it's scarce.

Any QB that has seen pro bowls and is as young as he is is going to get top dollar for the scarcest and most valuable position in the NFL.
 

jnday

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I don't believe his market value is North of $35MM either, but on everything else we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think you can just explain away the often and sometimes ongoing difficulties so many teams have filling the QB position by saying all the ones that fail are just put in bad situations, and I don't believe you can ignore the fact that the reason QB prices are so high is because teams feel there is such a limited supply of quality QBs that they are willing to pay exorbitant prices to get one.
So many of those teams are very bad when they draft QB prospects and the rookie is thrown into a situation that sets him up for failure. The Patriots for example drafts QBs and they develop very nicely because they are in a good situation surrounded by talent and great coaching. Dallas has the talent right now that would allow an incoming rookie QB to step in and succeed. Dak has limited out and he is what he is with very little chance of developing into an elite QB. I would trade Dak in a heartbeat if it allowed me to draft one of the top QB prospects in the next draft and I would be giddy if it happens.
 
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