Can Dak break into Elite QB Tier?

DakPresgoat said:

Kurt Warner was cut and out of the league playing arena football before he even went to NFL Europe. But yeah I’m sure he was showing his elite ability when he was CUT.


And again you are missing the point. Aikman was not performing at an elite level his first couple years in the league. He wasn’t. Period. Of course he had the potential and showed the ability. He was a first overall pick after all.

But again, we are talking overall performance. Overall performance. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.

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With due respect, I think it is you that's missing the point.

All the QB's mentioned had legit reputations for being able to throw the ball. They could throw at an elite level right out of the gate. Of course they needed to acclimate to the pro game and most started out on bad teams.

It is possible to show elite level of play with poor results due to learning curve and circumstances.

Vtwin said:

With due respect, I think it is you that's missing the point.

All the QB's mentioned had legit reputations for being able to throw the ball. They could throw at an elite level right out of the gate. Of course they needed to acclimate to the pro game and most started out on bad teams.

It is possible to show elite level of play with poor results due to learning curve and circumstances.

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All due respect, no I’m not missing the point.

Kurt Warner was known for his elite throwing of the ball out of the gate? Undrafted Kurt Warner? Who got cut?

Tom Brady was known for his elite throwing. The 6th round pick?

Come on man.

Again, there is a difference between showing elite athleticism and ability and playing an elite level.

For every high draft pick QB that shows elite athleticism and capability, who develops into an elite performer. There are guys who show elite ability and then bust or never become more than average.

Marcus Mariota, James Winston, cam Newton, etc. that’s just a modern list.

When I made my initial point it was specifically to somebody who said he has never seen a QB that wasn’t elite, become elite with experience.

Now other posters have come in, and changed the argument slightly to include elite traits or showing elite athleticism, etc. it’s a different argument from the initial one that was made.

So no, I’m not missing the point. People are now just changing the point.

That’s all well and good.

But the initial point, which is that lots of QB’s take time to develop into elite level players, still holds true.

Bob-Lillys-War said:

Most would say Dak cannot become elite , I say change the coaching staff first, before we make a final judgement .

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They have changed coaches and the result will be the same. A coach can’t give him accuracy or pocket awareness no matter how hard they try. Tebow would be elite if coaching could teach accuracy.

DakPresgoat said:

All due respect, no I’m not missing the point.

Kurt Warner was known for his elite throwing of the ball out of the gate? Undrafted Kurt Warner? Who got cut?

Tom Brady was known for his elite throwing. The 6th round pick?

Come on man.

Again, there is a difference between showing elite athleticism and ability and playing an elite level.

For every high draft pick QB that shows elite athleticism and capability, who develops into an elite performer. There are guys who show elite ability and then bust or never become more than average.

Marcus Mariota, James Winston, cam Newton, etc. that’s just a modern list.

When I made my initial point it was specifically to somebody who said he has never seen a QB that wasn’t elite, become elite with experience.

Now other posters have come in, and changed the argument slightly to include elite traits or showing elite athleticism, etc. it’s a different argument from the initial one that was made.

So no, I’m not missing the point. People are now just changing the point.

That’s all well and good.

But the initial point, which is that lots of QB’s take time to develop into elite level players, still holds true.

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None of those QBs stepped into a situation where the had Pro Bowl talent all around them like there is in Dallas.

jnday said:

None of those QBs stepped into a situation where the had Pro Bowl talent all around them like there is in Dallas.

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That’s changing the argument. And that’s fine.

And yes some other QB’s have entered the league with talent around them.

This mythically amazing cowboys team that Dak had around him that is so much better than any team in history to have a young QB play is hilarious though.

What is the elite level of QB in the NFL? What defines that? Is it stats or wins?

Was Aikman elite? He played with a HOF RB and WR and behind an elite OL. How about Romo? Was he elite?

And most importantly, is the there a difference between an elite QB and an elite passer? Marino was an elite passer but was he an elite QB?

DakPresgoat said:

That’s changing the argument. And that’s fine.

And yes some other QB’s have entered the league with talent around them.

This mythically amazing cowboys team that Dak had around him that is so much better than any team in history to have a young QB play is hilarious though.

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Yep, I'll take the MIA team Marini stepped into as well as the PIT team Rothliesberger stepped into over that Cowboys team.

There are many aspects to being a great QB. I'll just cover two of them (which I happen to think are the most important).

Decision making: I would say the most important aspect of being a QB is decision making. When to check down, when to audible, who to throw to, when to take a sack or throw it away, etc. QB's regularly improve their decision making. Frequently this continues well into their career. Rothlisberger has been playing for like 50 years and he continues to get better at it and he started out having virtually nothing between his ears.

Throwing the football: I would say the second most important thing about being a QB is throwing the football. Hitting a man in stride. Throwing a laser down the field or a nice touch pass over coverage. I can't think of many QB's that actually get better at throwing the football. If you got it, you got it has generally been my experience.

The things that scare me about Dak's future progression is that he is already a good decision maker. He doesn't make bad decisions. Maybe we would like him to be more aggressive but for the most part, he avoids the "brain fart" throws that really get your team in trouble. OTOH, he isn't a good thrower of the football. Basically, he is already good at the thing that most young QB's have to work on and he is bad at the thing that doesn't improve. That makes me question how much room for growth there is.

I am hoping for the best, but as I have said from day 1, my concern about Dak is his accuracy. He misses badly and often. The David Carr challenge really was a tell-all for me. I know all QBs miss from time to time, but if we are being honest, Dak missed wide-open receivers a lot.

No

Dak would need to quit playing "yes" man to Jason Garrett and start making some plays on his own to become elite.
He's good- VERY good as he is, but he needs to become a leader.
Until now, Dak has merely become a guy that succeeds ONLY when the team is doing well, anyway.
Dak has not shown the ability to make the Cowboys better when they need a lift.

DakPresgoat said:

That’s changing the argument. And that’s fine.

And yes some other QB’s have entered the league with talent around them.

This mythically amazing cowboys team that Dak had around him that is so much better than any team in history to have a young QB play is hilarious though.

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I am only pointing out the obvious that you failed to mention. Dak walked into the perfect situation and denying that fact is delusional. From the latest polls that I have read, only 20% of Cowboy fans believe in Dak’s ability to be a decent QB. The other 80% has common sense and they don’t let emotions cloud their judgement. I believe all 20% of the Dakians post on this board.