Has Zeke lost some of his speed?

Toruk_Makto

Toruk_Makto

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phildadon86 said:
You are really biased you know that? Yes we all get it. You hated the pick. This is the worst video you could have posted. I can find you 5 videos of Zeke doing something similar if not the exact same thing. Just stop with your MADNESS and let it go already.
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Not really. Zeke does not make many people miss in the open field. He also doesn't break many tackles. Best you can say is he falls forward.

I provided all these statistics for the forum. They were not my analysis.
 
Plankton

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To me, if Zeke has lost anything, it's two things:
  • Short area quickness. His speed is much more of a build-up of speed rather than quick acceleration. He's not nearly as quick off the snap as he was at Ohio State and his rookie season.
  • Wiggle - he has gotten bigger, and has lost some flexibility and wiggle in the open field. He doesn't deke out tacklers as he once did. As Toruk said above, he's more of a power guy than a guy who makes tacklers grab at air.
 
quickccc

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Toruk_Makto said:
Zeke actually want especially efficient running the ball last year and he was downright pedestrian in receiving efficiency.

If getting a bunch of dump offs makes you a dangerous receiver than anyone can be one.
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which is why I used that patented quick screen that we still use to get him into unbalanced open field as an example parameters of his breakaway speed en route to the 60-70 yd sprint and run TDs
..vs those dump offs that we decided to invest more In an effort to get him " more involved in the pass game "
 
CalPolyTechnique

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Future said:
No defense uses 8 defenders in the box against 11 personnel, and teams run 11 personnel more than half the time. The 8+ number has been irrelevant for years. 7 defenders is the 11 personnel equivalent of 8, and the Cowboys ran 11 personnel 67.5% of the time last year. So running against a stacked box does not mean running against 8 box defenders, it means running against a negative front (more defenders than blockers). Zeke ran into that almost exclusively last year.

No, it doesn't account for volume or usage. A short yardage back, i.e. Blount, is going to have a ridiculously high percentage of 8+ defenders becuase they only use him when they need 2 yards, especially when compared to Zeke, who's number is pulled down he gets carries on 1st and 10, 2nd and 8, etc.

8 in the box is an irrelevant stat because teams don't use TEs and fullbacks in base anymore. The number that matters is % of runs against a negative front, and Zeke ran into that almost exclusively last year.

You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
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What are you failing to process?

11 personnel is one running back, one tight end, three wide receivers.

The Next Gen definition specifies what the metric is looking at: 8+ defenders in the box at the time of the snap.

END.OF.STORY.

It doesn’t matter what personnel the offense is running or whether there are more defenders than blockers.

It doesn’t matter if the Cowboys came out running 5 wideouts. The metric is looking at what the defense is doing; Zeke is running against defenses with 8 or more defenders in the box at the snap ~25% of his carries.

You’re making up what you think Next Gen is capturing despite the fact they provide you the definition.
 
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QuincyCarterEra

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quickccc said:
which is why I used that patented quick screen that we still use to get him into unbalanced open field as an example parameters of his breakaway speed en route to the 60-70 yd sprint and run TDs
..vs those dump offs that we decided to invest more In an effort to get him " more involved in the pass game "
Click to expand...

Let'a forget 60 or 70 yards for a second like your claim. Let's lower the bar to 40 yards. On 77 receptions last season, how many of his receptions went for 40 yards?

Then we can add the year before that, so the last two years, I'll let you guess the total the last two seasons of receptions of 40+ yards
 
InTheZone

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probably the same people that say the Pats dynasty is done whenever they start a season 0-1.
 
quickccc

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Toruk_Makto said:
Not really. Zeke does not make many people miss in the open field. He also doesn't break many tackles. Best you can say is he falls forward.

I provided all these statistics for the forum. They were not my analysis.
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QuincyCarterEra said:
Let'a forget 60 or 70 yards for a second like your claim. Let's lower the bar to 40 yards. On 77 receptions last season, how many of his receptions went for 40 yards?

Then we can add the year before that, so the last two years, I'll let you guess the total the last two seasons of receptions of 40+ yards
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LOL ..... “ Let’s forget the 60 and 70 yds for a second “ ?? … are you kiddin’ ? :confused:

Why should we have to “ forget” the big play run-sprint TD plays zeke made due to his speed- ability. He made those plays happen .

That’s just like the “ take away Barkley’s 60+ yrd run “ that I always seem to hear with critics of Barkley – there’s shouldn’t be any “forget or take away-“ these guys are playmakers ,..playmakers make those plays happen.
 
Aviano90

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QuincyCarterEra said:
In pads, Elliott is FAR from one of the fastest half backs in the NFL. There is absolutely no truth to this.
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NextGen Stats tracks the fastest ball carriers now. Going back and looking at the weekly lists you can clearly see he had better speed in 2016 and declined since then (when he makes the list). You can also see there are plenty of other RBs making the list at higher speeds too.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-ball-carriers/2016/all
 

QuincyCarterEra

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quickccc said:
LOL ..... “ Let’s forget the 60 and 70 yds for a second “ ?? … are you kiddin’ ? :confused:

Why should we have to “ forget” the big play run-sprint TD plays zeke made due to his speed- ability. He made those plays happen .

That’s just like the “ take away Barkley’s 60+ yrd run “ that I always seem to hear with critics of Barkley – there’s shouldn’t be any “forget or take away-“ these guys are playmakers ,..playmakers make those plays happen.
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You completely misunderstood lmao.

You claimed 60 to 70 yards. Zeke had 0 of those last year. So I lowered it to 40 yards for you to make it look better. How many did Zeke have last year of at least 40? ZERO

The year before? ONE!

How you were able to misinterpret that to such a degree is almost impressive.
 
Batman1980

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QuincyCarterEra said:
You completely misunderstood lmao.

You claimed 60 to 70 yards. Zeke had 0 of those last year. So I lowered it to 40 yards for you to make it look better. How many did Zeke have last year of at least 40? ZERO

The year before? ONE!

How you were able to misinterpret that to such a degree is almost impressive.
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That's my $108 million runningback!
 
Future

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CalPolyTechnique said:
What are you failing to process?

11 personnel is one running back, one tight end, three wide receivers.

The Next Gen definition specifies what the metric is looking at: 8+ defenders in the box at the time of the snap.

END.OF.STORY.

It doesn’t matter what personnel the offense is running or whether there are more defenders than blockers.

It doesn’t matter if the Cowboys came out running 5 wideouts. The metric is looking at what the defense is doing; Zeke is running against defenses with 8 or more defenders in the box at the snap ~25% of his carries.

You’re making up what you think Next Gen is capturing despite the fact they provide you the definition.
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The metric is dumb because no team would ever have 8 defenders in the box against 11 personnel.

Stacked box does not equal 8 defenders. That's the part you don't get.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Future said:
The metric is dumb because no team would ever have 8 defenders in the box against 11 personnel.

Stacked box does not equal 8 defenders. That's the part you don't get.
Click to expand...
Exactly and the last three years we used 12 personnel at one of the highest rates in the league, yet Zeke faced league average stacked boxes.

Zeke doesn't add any extra defenders into the box, like is claimed by some.
 
CalPolyTechnique

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Future said:
The metric is dumb because no team would ever have 8 defenders in the box against 11 personnel.

Stacked box does not equal 8 defenders. That's the part you don't get.
Click to expand...

And what you’re not getting is Noah Brown has been utilized extensively as a glorified blocking WR they put into motion, and coming down near the LOS to block which causes the defender following him to come down into the box, as well as the safety to cheat.

You’re just imagining three wide receivers lined up outside at the snap.

This is part of the problem we all moaned about with Linehan and his predictability, and what Nick Eatman called-out regarding our coaching “arrogance” last year in that we thought we didn’t disguise plays, ran a lot of the same designs thinking “well, we’ll just be better than the other guys.”



How many defenders are in that box?

Count them.

Now go back to the lab and start on a new theory.
 
Future

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CalPolyTechnique said:
And what you’re not getting is Noah Brown has been utilized extensively as a glorified blocking WR they put into motion, and coming down near the LOS to block which causes the defender following him to come down into the box, as well as the safety to cheat.

You’re just imagining three wide receivers lined up outside at the snap.

This is part of the problem we all moaned about with Linehan and his predictability, and what Nick Eatman called-out regarding our coaching “arrogance” last year in that we thought we didn’t disguise plays, ran a lot of the same designs thinking “well, we’ll just be better than the other guys.”



How many defenders are in that box?

Count them.

Now go back to the lab and start on a new theory.
Click to expand...

There are 8...against 7 blockers, which proves the point that Zeke ran against loaded boxes.

You just don't understand that a loaded box is the number of defenders vs the number of blockers, 8 doesn't matter. 11 personnel generally only has 6 box blockers. Nitpicking a couple plays a game where Noah Brown went in motion doesn't change anything.

Here's the run-by-run for the Titans game last year. https://cowboyszone.com/threads/zeke-runs-personnel-vs-titans.419472/
 
CalPolyTechnique

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Future said:
There are 8...against 7 blockers, which proves the point that Zeke ran against loaded boxes.

You just don't understand that a loaded box is the number of defenders vs the number of blockers, 8 doesn't matter. 11 personnel generally only has 6 box blockers. Nitpicking a couple plays a game where Noah Brown went in motion doesn't change anything.

Here's the run-by-run for the Titans game last year. https://cowboyszone.com/threads/zeke-runs-personnel-vs-titans.419472/
Click to expand...

You’re speaking in generalities and making it up as you go.

I’m using the very definition from a metric used to determine scenarios (“stacked in the box”) running backs face against defenses designed specifically to stop the run.

Yeah, the fact that the defense has more defenders in the box versus blockers makes it more difficult. That should be obvious; more defenders in a smaller area in closer proximity makes it more difficult to run.

By your half-baked definition, an offense could spread out a defense into a nickel and have 6 defenders go against 5 offensive linemen, and you’d consider that a “negative front” when in reality that’s a favorable defensive front to run on.
 
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