Is Garrett the problem with character issue players?

PJTHEDOORS · Sep 18, 2019

droopdog7 said:
Taco and Rico aren't that good. Irving, McClain, and Brent didn't want to play football. Hardy was completely off his rocker. The other stuff is par for the course when you have 60 player to deal with. Some will be happy, some won't.

Disagree on Taco. He got pressure when given snaps.

Sarge · Sep 18, 2019

It’s all Garrett’s fault, ALL.

Toruk_Makto · Sep 18, 2019

This is a silly thread from the OP

PJTHEDOORS · Sep 18, 2019

Verdict said:
4.92 is super slow for a DE. I know people keep saying it doesn’t matter, but it does.

This quick twitch stuff is nonsense. Taco has done zero so far. If he is going to get it done it will have to be with power. I have been saying that since the day he was drafted.

Sure, if DE's are required to run 40 yds before getting to the QB.

Teague31 · Sep 18, 2019

Taco has terrible athleticism for the position. You don’t draft a guy in the first with bad measurables and so so tape

Creeper · Sep 18, 2019

I am hoping Taco is not a defensive version of Martellus Bennett. The Cowboys never gave Bennett a chance, he developed a bad attitude, they cut him and he went on to play in a bowl. He had the talent and it took a few years for him to grow up. I don't know if it was coaching or just natural maturing with age but he had a few good years with the Bears. Maybe Taco is the same guy. He'll struggle with maturity issues for a few years and then it will come to him. I guess we'll find out.

408Cowboy · Sep 18, 2019

The Greg Hardy incident was dismissed as passion. Pretty sure that sums it up.

Zman5 · Sep 18, 2019

Clapping doesn't work for every player. Clapping faster will not motivate everyone.

dargonking999 · Sep 18, 2019

xwalker said:
Garrett can't seem to handle any mental make-up issue type players.

Jimmy got to Super Bowls by handing Charles Haley.

Taco

Taco failed because he was or became uncoachable.

He did NOT fail due to a lack of physical ability.

Dorance Armstrong does not have more physical ability than Taco.

Was it the Pick of Taco that Failed or did Garrett fail to make Taco accountable?

Has Garrett handled any character issues players?
- They kept Dez happy by force feeding him the ball.
- Zeke has only been in limited trouble.

Garrett as Head Coach:
Taco
Greg Hardy
Josh Brent
David Irving
Dez (eventually)
Rolando McClain
Jay Ratliff
Ahmad Dixon
Joseph Randle
Rico

Others that had issues:
Beasley - Complained on twitter while he was here.
Ryan Switzer - Openly complained to the media.
T.Williams - The 2018 move to IR seemed to be more of a flake out and an long term injury.
Kyle Orton - Faked injury or illness to get cut (I forget the details).

Garrett as the OC, not HC:
TO
Patrick Crayton
MartyB

So I'm not sure exactly what your asking because not a single one of those players has been successful after leaving the cowboys from what I remember.

So maybe they just were no longer worth the hassle and the team moved on?

xwalker · Sep 18, 2019

Manwiththeplan said:
I don't know if you can definitively say Dorance doesn't have as much physical ability. Just looking at a few drills

40 yard dash
Dorance: 4.87 Taco: 4.92
20 yard shuttle
Dorance: 4.23 Taco: 4.39
3 cone drill
Dorance: 7.12 Taco: 7.17
Vertical jump
Dorance: 30' Taco: 33'
Broad jump
Dorance: 118' Taco: 116'

Now Taco has similar numbers and is bigger and stronger, but we aren't talking about some all-pro talent who the coaches didn't reach.

CT Dal Fan said:
Plus Armstrong was a 4th round pick. So he will fall into one of two categories- a bargain or "worth the try".

The point is that Taco is gone and Armstrong remains on the team and has been active on game days.

Either Taco failed due to attitude or due to physical ability.

If it was physical ability, Taco didn't have to match up to 1st round expectations, he just needed to match up to Armstrong.

Taco did start 7 games last season and he had 3 sacks as a rookie while just getting backup snaps.

Taco looked as good if not better in the preseason games than Armstrong.

Taco did not get cut because he lacked the physical ability to at least be a rotational DE in this scheme.

He got cut for attitude reasons and that means the coaches could not get through to him.

I don't expect Garrett to get through to 100% of character issue players, but if he can't handle ANY character issue players then that puts the team at a disadvantage.

Manwiththeplan · Sep 18, 2019

Verdict said:
4.92 is super slow for a DE. I know people keep saying it doesn’t matter, but it does.

This quick twitch stuff is nonsense. Taco has done zero so far. If he is going to get it done it will have to be with power. I have been saying that since the day he was drafted.

Darren Howard, DE, Saints/Eagles: 67 career sacks with a career high of 11 ran a 5.09
Calias Campbell, DE, Cardinal/Jaguars: 81 career sacks with a career high of 14.5 ran a 5.04 (admittedly played in a 3-4 most of his career, but 4-3 the last 2)
Michael Bennett, DE, Seahawks/Eagles/Patriots: 64 career sacks with a high of 10 ran a 5.0
Derrick Burgess, DE, Eagles/Raider: 52 career sacks with a high of 16 ran a 4.93

It can be done, ideally, given his size he should have been an ideal replacement for David Irving.

big dog cowboy · Sep 18, 2019

xwalker said:
Garrett as Head Coach:
Taco
Greg Hardy
Josh Brent
David Irving
Dez (eventually)
Rolando McClain
Jay Ratliff
Ahmad Dixon
Joseph Randle
Rico

They had problems before they got to Dallas.

That being said, Garrett didn't do anything to help the situation either.

Manwiththeplan · Sep 18, 2019

xwalker said:
I don't expect Garrett to get through to 100% of character issue players, but if he can't handle ANY character issue players then that puts the team at a disadvantage.

He handled Dez until Dez was no longer good, he handled Irving for a few years, I don't know what you want.

xwalker · Sep 18, 2019

dargonking999 said:
So I'm not sure exactly what your asking because not a single one of those players has been successful after leaving the cowboys from what I remember.

So maybe they just were no longer worth the hassle and the team moved on?

If young players don't get the hardarse coaching they need from day one, then they are unlikely to make it elsewhere.

JoeKing · Sep 18, 2019

xwalker said:
Garrett can't seem to handle any mental make-up issue type players.

Jimmy got to Super Bowls by handing Charles Haley.

Taco

Taco failed because he was or became uncoachable.

He did NOT fail due to a lack of physical ability.

Dorance Armstrong does not have more physical ability than Taco.

Was it the Pick of Taco that Failed or did Garrett fail to make Taco accountable?

Has Garrett handled any character issues players?
- They kept Dez happy by force feeding him the ball.
- Zeke has only been in limited trouble.

Garrett as Head Coach:
Taco
Greg Hardy
Josh Brent
David Irving
Dez (eventually)
Rolando McClain
Jay Ratliff
Ahmad Dixon
Joseph Randle
Rico

Others that had issues:
Beasley - Complained on twitter while he was here.
Ryan Switzer - Openly complained to the media.
T.Williams - The 2018 move to IR seemed to be more of a flake out and an long term injury.
Kyle Orton - Faked injury or illness to get cut (I forget the details).

Garrett as the OC, not HC:
TO
Patrick Crayton
MartyB

It was totally Taco's immaturity that got him axed. But of course, the Garrett haters have to spin this like it had anything to do with Garrett.

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country · Sep 18, 2019

Jimmy Johnson always sided with the players. Whether it was the Hurricanes or the Cowboys he sided with the players. And by doing so he created an us against the world mentality. The players loved that about him. I guarantee you made the players respect the coaches and the coaches respect the players.

To be honest, that's something Garrett isn't capable of creating. Mutual respect. And that's why you get a hand full of players speaking out against the staff. Mutual respect does not exist on a Garrett coached team. So yes Garrett has failed in handling some lively characters.

He's not a man's man and he doesn't have the resume to demand respect from both players and coaches alike. So if he can't demand respect from both players and coaches then he can't demand that they respect one another. Hince the problems.

Manwiththeplan · Sep 18, 2019

xwalker said:
Either Taco failed due to attitude or due to physical ability.

This is a false dichotomy. It could easily be and more likely is a combination of both. Physically he isn't that much more talented, if at all than Armstrong. And Armstrong isn't is a lot more coachable.

Verdict · Sep 18, 2019

Manwiththeplan said:
Darren Howard, DE, Saints/Eagles: 67 career sacks with a career high of 11 ran a 5.09
Calias Campbell, DE, Cardinal/Jaguars: 81 career sacks with a career high of 14.5 ran a 5.04 (admittedly played in a 3-4 most of his career, but 4-3 the last 2)
Michael Bennett, DE, Seahawks/Eagles/Patriots: 64 career sacks with a high of 10 ran a 5.0
Derrick Burgess, DE, Eagles/Raider: 52 career sacks with a high of 16 ran a 4.93

It can be done, ideally, given his size he should have been an ideal replacement for David Irving.

None of those guys would be considered speed rushers. All of the guys you listed got it done with power.

Verdict · Sep 18, 2019

PJTHEDOORS said:
Sure, if DE's are required to run 40 yds before getting to the QB.

They do have to be able to run to the QB. If they can’t get around the OT with quickness and speed then they have to bull rush or hand fight their way there.

Taco didn’t have speed. It turns out it doesn’t appear he had a bull rush (power) or technique either.

xwalker · Sep 18, 2019

Manwiththeplan said:
He handled Dez until Dez was no longer good, he handled Irving for a few years, I don't know what you want.

He didn't really handle Dez.

They gave Dez everything he wanted to keep him pacified.

They never forced him to run correct routes and they never forced him to show up on time.

David Irving made it 1 season out of 4 without getting suspended.

I don't expect Garrett to has success with 100% of character issue players, but maybe 1 of 5 or something like that would be good instead of basically Zero out of All.

Is Garrett the problem with character issue players?

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