Is Garrett the problem with character issue players?

dargonking999

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If young players don't get the hardarse coaching they need from day one, then they are unlikely to make it elsewhere.

Most of the players on the list either weren't young when they came.to.the cowboys, are quit football right after leaving the cowboys, because they just didn't want to play.

You can't get through to guys who don't want to play.
 

Plankton

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Remember that time Jimmy Johnson cut Jimmy Smith? It happens. There's a lot of blame to go around. The staff for drafting a guy a little early and not properly vetting his character and Taco for not working as hard as the coaches wanted. But I don't think this is something you can pin on Garrett.

Johnson didn't cut Jimmy Smith. He was placed on the NFI list in 1993 after having appendicitis, and complications after that. He didn't suit up as a result that year, and had to sue for his salary and service time credits under the CBA. Smith was waived in July of 1994 after refusing a paycut - this was after Johnson had been fired in Dallas.
 

xwalker

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They do have to be able to run to the QB. If they can’t get around the OT with quickness and speed then they have to bull rush or hand fight their way there.

Taco didn’t have speed. It turns out it doesn’t appear he had a bull rush (power) or technique either.

I'm posting this for the video. I suggest turning the sound off.

 

Montanalo

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Interesting question. Assuming JG is the issue, then is it because of his (presumed) inability to deal with "problem" players or, is it his inability to actually gather the RKG?
 

Cowboy4ever

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Go back and look at all the 1st,2nd and 3rd rounders that didn’t make it 3 seasons under Johnson and compare that to Garrett’s tenure as a HC and get back with me.
 

xwalker

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Remember that time Jimmy Johnson cut Jimmy Smith? It happens. There's a lot of blame to go around. The staff for drafting a guy a little early and not properly vetting his character and Taco for not working as hard as the coaches wanted. But I don't think this is something you can pin on Garrett.
Johnson didn't cut Jimmy Smith. He was placed on the NFI list in 1993 after having appendicitis, and complications after that. He didn't suit up as a result that year, and had to sue for his salary and service time credits under the CBA. Smith was waived in July of 1994 after refusing a paycut - this was after Johnson had been fired in Dallas.
The Jimmy Smith ordeal was all Jerry.
 

TNCowboy

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Anybody who watched much of Taco at Michigan should have known he was nothing special. Go back and look at the draft section of this board leading up to that draft. Poster after poster mentioned this before and after the draft.

He's a JAG player who got handed a 1st round contract. "But his combine!!!!" So what? If that athleticism was real, it never translated to the football field.

Adios jag.
 

plasticman

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Garrett is the problem solver. Taco was inactive because he lacked effort. He tried to push back, he was cut. By the way, it is the Head Coach, Jason Garrett who cuts players. Just because the Jonses enjoy doing most of the talking doesn't mean that Jason isn't in firm control of this team.

Just like Jimmy Johnson, Jason will make allowances for talent but Taco had nothing going for him, a non productive complainer doesn't last long in this league.
 

ItzKelz

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Garrett can't seem to handle any mental make-up issue type players.

Jimmy got to Super Bowls by handing Charles Haley.

Taco
  • Taco failed because he was or became uncoachable.
  • He did NOT fail due to a lack of physical ability.
  • Dorance Armstrong does not have more physical ability than Taco.
Was it the Pick of Taco that Failed or did Garrett fail to make Taco accountable?

Has Garrett handled any character issues players?
- They kept Dez happy by force feeding him the ball.
- Zeke has only been in limited trouble.


Garrett as Head Coach:
Taco
Greg Hardy
Josh Brent
David Irving
Dez (eventually)
Rolando McClain
Jay Ratliff
Ahmad Dixon
Joseph Randle
Rico

Others that had issues:
Beasley - Complained on twitter while he was here.
Ryan Switzer - Openly complained to the media.
T.Williams - The 2018 move to IR seemed to be more of a flake out and an long term injury.
Kyle Orton - Faked injury or illness to get cut (I forget the details).

Garrett as the OC, not HC:
TO
Patrick Crayton
MartyB
To be fair even Charles Haley questioned Taco's heart and football IQ.

Personally I think JG runs a great "buy in" type of environment. I look at coaches like Mike Tomlin and wonder how he is still a coach in the NFL based on how the players seem to have no respect for him or his message.
 

beware_d-ware

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We're not in the facility every day with these coaches and we have no idea what they do and don't put up with. It's all speculation.

Look at all the Antonio Brown stuff that's come to light. Did the Steelers get rid of him at a huge discount because Mike Tomlin couldn't motivate him, or did they ship him out because they were dealing with an actual crazy person?
 

TheHerd

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They may not have the organizational success that New England does, but I think the reason the Cowboys are so quick to ship the "headaches" out of town is they're trying to mold their team/culture in the Patriot cloth.

Either mold your behavior to the "Cowboy way", or you're done. I think in theory, that's a great plan. But you need that dominant and respected figurehead in charge in order for guys to fully buy in. Obvious problem there, though, is that Jason Garrett is no Bill Belichick.
The Patriots are masters of taking on players who can't or don't want to fit in. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. They signed Albert Haynesworth. The narrative of the Pats signing only high character guys is false. They will try anyone who can play. The leash may be short, but they'll sign him.
 

xwalker

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To be fair even Charles Haley questioned Taco's heart and football IQ.

Personally I think JG runs a great "buy in" type of environment. I look at coaches like Mike Tomlin and wonder how he is still a coach in the NFL based on how the players seem to have no respect for him or his message.

It was great that Garrett pushed for a focus on obtaining RKG types.

They focused on drafting team captains and put a much bigger emphasis on character issues before investing in players.

The ones they did acquire like Greg Hardy were very low risks. Hardy's contract basically only paid him if he was active for games.

Taco was not a significant character issue player in the draft. There were some questions about his consistency but he was really a character red flag player.

What I did NOT realize at the time that the RKG term became much discussed is that acquiring RKG players is the only way Garrett can coach them.

Just based on random happenstance they should have had success with a few borderline character issue players but they really have not had success with any.
 
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xwalker

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It was totally Taco's immaturity that got him axed. But of course, the Garrett haters have to spin this like it had anything to do with Garrett.
I'm not a Garrett hater.

I've defended Garrett often. I've said dozens of times that he is a better HC than Wade Phillips was as the HC.
 

Chocolate Lab

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By the way, it is the Head Coach, Jason Garrett who cuts players. Just because the Jonses enjoy doing most of the talking doesn't mean that Jason isn't in firm control of this team..


Mike-Tyson-clapping-and-laughing.gif
 

xwalker

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Yeesh, that's a murderer's row of misfits. How many were forced on Garrett by Jerry?
Having said that, I bet Jimmy would have got the most out of them.
I don't expect a Head Coach to salvage all character issue players but maybe 1 in 5 or 1 in 20 would be nice. Garrett is close to zero of all.
 

Pantone282C

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I don't expect a Head Coach to salvage all character issue players but maybe 1 in 5 or 1 in 20 would be nice. Garrett is close to zero of all.
True. Results are right there for the viewing.
He seems like a rah-rah motivator - much like video moments of him and Dez on All Or Nothing. That's just my perception.
 

garyo1954

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The point is that Taco is gone and Armstrong remains on the team and has been active on game days.

Either Taco failed due to attitude or due to physical ability.

If it was physical ability, Taco didn't have to match up to 1st round expectations, he just needed to match up to Armstrong.

Taco did start 7 games last season and he had 3 sacks as a rookie while just getting backup snaps.

Taco looked as good if not better in the preseason games than Armstrong.

Taco did not get cut because he lacked the physical ability to at least be a rotational DE in this scheme.

He got cut for attitude reasons and that means the coaches could not get through to him.


I don't expect Garrett to get through to 100% of character issue players, but if he can't handle ANY character issue players then that puts the team at a disadvantage.

I don't disagree, but you may be overlooking the obvious....


40 yard dash
Dorance: 4.87 Taco: 4.92
20 yard shuttle
Dorance: 4.23 Taco: 4.39
3 cone drill
Dorance: 7.12 Taco: 7.17
Vertical jump
Dorance: 30' Taco: 33'
Broad jump
Dorance: 118' Taco: 116'

According to those numbers Dorance can jump 10 YARDS straight up and Taco can do 11! (Three times the height of a basketball goal)
Dorance can jump 39 YARDS downfield! Taco can only do 38.

They could be be all pros at any position. Play them at safety and they broad jump to QB! And no more overthrown balls!
 

Cowboys1fan

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Good for garret, no need to have a bunch of overpaid humans being lazy and not coming to work. Didn’t need any of them. Get em out of here
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Garrett can't seem to handle any mental make-up issue type players.

Jimmy got to Super Bowls by handing Charles Haley.

Taco
  • Taco failed because he was or became uncoachable.
  • He did NOT fail due to a lack of physical ability.
  • Dorance Armstrong does not have more physical ability than Taco.
Was it the Pick of Taco that Failed or did Garrett fail to make Taco accountable?

Has Garrett handled any character issues players?
- They kept Dez happy by force feeding him the ball.
- Zeke has only been in limited trouble.


Garrett as Head Coach:
Taco
Greg Hardy
Josh Brent
David Irving
Dez (eventually)
Rolando McClain
Jay Ratliff
Ahmad Dixon
Joseph Randle
Rico

Others that had issues:
Beasley - Complained on twitter while he was here.
Ryan Switzer - Openly complained to the media.
T.Williams - The 2018 move to IR seemed to be more of a flake out and an long term injury.
Kyle Orton - Faked injury or illness to get cut (I forget the details).

Garrett as the OC, not HC:
TO
Patrick Crayton
MartyB
Bunch of garbage. None of them amounted to anything and were bit players.

And it's not like they were one and done, they were around for a while and most were finished when they left Dallas.
 

Hennessy_King

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Spot on thread. The fact he cant work with and dismisses players and cant get them right is totally on the staff as a whole
 
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