Props to Jason Garrett

CowboysFaninHouston

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A great puppet? That kind of category doesn't even register with me. If your in the puppet category then you are a joke to begin with.

You call him a puppet and then turn around and talk about how he has built a culture here. Im just not seeing it. Not in the least.

The big changes to the franchise have occurred with Stephen's influence with FA's and not going nuts in FA and McClays influence with the draft.

THAT has led to more success along with the lucky drafting of Dak that has brought on a new level of leadership and success.

All 3 things have come together THIS year. And Moore taking over the offense is now the straw that stirs the drink.

Its very clear that less Garrett has been more. Going from Garrett to linehan was in improvement and now Moore is an even bigger step.
almost every coach in dallas since Jones took over has been a puppet except for Jimmy who quit. and Parcells who was a partial puppet and he quit.
 

Diehardblues

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A great puppet? That kind of category doesn't even register with me. If your in the puppet category then you are a joke to begin with.

You call him a puppet and then turn around and talk about how he has built a culture here. Im just not seeing it. Not in the least.

The big changes to the franchise have occurred with Stephen's influence with FA's and not going nuts in FA and McClays influence with the draft.

THAT has led to more success along with the lucky drafting of Dak that has brought on a new level of leadership and success.

All 3 things have come together THIS year. And Moore taking over the offense is now the straw that stirs the drink.

Its very clear that less Garrett has been more. Going from Garrett to linehan was in improvement and now Moore is an even bigger step.
The culture change begun in 2011.

Jerry’s ways and agendas has created this puppet category. Lol
 

leeblair

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he has had several top 10 in scoring offenses. 2007 we were #2 scoring in the league....

and I guess his scheme is designed to produce turnovers and he is coaching them to fumble and throw Ints…...

and please provide a list of coordinators and coaches who have had less wasted drives and blown leads. otherwise you are stating your opinion, which you are welcomed to have, just like anybody else on this board....however, I rather follow facts not perceptions
2007 was Bill Parcells offense, and they finished the season struggling as the discipline that Parcells had instilled faded away.
And in 2009 the Cowboys SHOULD have won a Super Bowl as well, but Garrett choked against the Vikings.
Now, the rest of the story is 4 consecutive 8-8 seasons- led by Garrett's turnover prone offense that cost Wade Phillips his job.
Until Linehan came in 2014 the Cowboys had no running game. Garrett should have been fired at the end of 2007.
 

Idgit

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2007 was Bill Parcells offense, and they finished the season struggling as the discipline that Parcells had instilled faded away.
And in 2009 the Cowboys SHOULD have won a Super Bowl as well, but Garrett choked against the Vikings.
Now, the rest of the story is 4 consecutive 8-8 seasons- led by Garrett's turnover prone offense that cost Wade Phillips his job.
Until Linehan came in 2014 the Cowboys had no running game. Garrett should have been fired at the end of 2007.

The gymnastics it takes to actually believe what you've typed here would break my back.
 

Diehardblues

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The gymnastics it takes to actually believe what you've typed here would break my back.
If you’re going to bash at least get the facts straight. It was three 8-8 seasons not 4.

He gives credit to Bill in 2007 ( wasn’t with the team)but blames Jason in 2009. All blatant red flags. And why I didn’t bother responding. Lol
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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2007 was Bill Parcells offense, and they finished the season struggling as the discipline that Parcells had instilled faded away.
And in 2009 the Cowboys SHOULD have won a Super Bowl as well, but Garrett choked against the Vikings.
Now, the rest of the story is 4 consecutive 8-8 seasons- led by Garrett's turnover prone offense that cost Wade Phillips his job.
Until Linehan came in 2014 the Cowboys had no running game. Garrett should have been fired at the end of 2007.
nice try to spin things as garrett haters tend to do...so now 2007 it was parcells offense? how? was parcells coaching? ..it was Wade as head coach and Garrett as OC... Garrett was calling the plays and he had his playbook

the cowboys lost in the playoffs, we lost because we couldn't handle their pass rush...the vkings were the better team (they played at home), they had favre….that defense got torched by Favre and their offense. torched. that was a big old failure on Wade who was brought in for his defensive coaching ability, which he failed at miserably and eventually got fired because the whole team quit on him..I never liked Wade as a head coach...he should have remained a coordinator, that was his strength.

.and seemingly anything good its credited to somebody else. anything bad its on Garrett...you just tried to create a lose lose situation, no matter what garrett does, he will lose in your mind. because seemingly you will never give him credit for anything he has done.....so what about the 2010 offense? it ended up #7?....was that parcells too LOL
 

Idgit

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If you’re going to bash at least get the facts straight. It was three 8-8 seasons not 4.

He gives credit to Bill in 2007 ( wasn’t with the team)but blames Jason in 2009. All blatant red flags. And why I didn’t bother responding. Lol

The leaps make my head hurt. Choose a basis for evaluating the guy, and stick to it. Get your facts right, and then, if you believe what logic and information tell you, fine. But just flip flopping all around trying to turn anything you can into a negative without context or even an attempt to be accurate. Gah.
 

morat1959

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You are right, I should be more appreciative of those 2 wildcard wins over the past decade, I mean that is the type of stuff that gets you into Canton.:laugh:
It’s about games not championships. Lol the pyramids in Egypt reference you made in another comment had me rolling! Sad but true!
 

CowboyRoy

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I can pick on any coach and specific plays or series....however, we can't dismiss the fact he produced top 10 offenses consistently...including top 2, 3 and top 10 in scoring....when we dislike something, we tend to focus on the negative because it gives us something to gripe about what we don't like. if a couple of series like that stand out to you, then it seems that way.

and I am also not denying that we have had bad games and bad coached games.....


How many offensive coaches that have worked under Garrett been poached by other teams and gone onto have success? NONE!!!

If Garrett is the offensive guru you protray him to be then why is he no longer calling plays or commanding the offense?

Why didnt they go back to Garrett after firing linehan?

How long ago were these great rankings for Garretts offense?
 

CowboyRoy

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being the weak link vs. not an X's and O's guy are two different subjects......and consensus? by whom? yes, some people have expressed their OPINIONS. I have also seen rankings and he has been somewhere in the middle 12-18 range....so that puts him in the middle of the pack.....

The media is a consensus. The Cowboy fan base is a consensus.

Heck the Owner obviously agrees that Garrett isn't the offensive genius he thought he was.

Middle of the pack? What kind of standards do you have buddy?

Are you really defending Garrett like a brother because you think he is average? What are we talking about here?

Why do you want an average coach here in Dallas?
 

CowboyRoy

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almost every coach in dallas since Jones took over has been a puppet except for Jimmy who quit. and Parcells who was a partial puppet and he quit.

So that means what exactly? That you lower your standards for a coach here in Dallas?

All the puppets we have ever had were joke. Garrett is no different.

The biggest issue with Garrett is that he was in control of the offense for the last 14 years.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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How many offensive coaches that have worked under Garrett been poached by other teams and gone onto have success? NONE!!!

If Garrett is the offensive guru you protray him to be then why is he no longer calling plays or commanding the offense?

Why didnt they go back to Garrett after firing linehan?

How long ago were these great rankings for Garretts offense?
I never called garrett an offensive guru. that's your interpretation. I simply don't call him garbage like garrett haters insist on doing. I presented facts on offensive performance under garrett.

secondly, its not unusual for former DCs and OCs to relinquish their calling duties. its pretty typical in the NFL. most coaches have a coordinator background, with exception of a few like John Harbaugh in Baltimore who was a specials teams coach. they implement an offensive system or philosophy and hire coaches that can execute the philosophy and over time they change as needed.

you keep insisting on how long ago, not sure the relevance of that. I outlined those times for you from the time he was a coordinator through when he was the head coach.....we were #5 in 2016.....
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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The media is a consensus. The Cowboy fan base is a consensus.

Heck the Owner obviously agrees that Garrett isn't the offensive genius he thought he was.

Middle of the pack? What kind of standards do you have buddy?

Are you really defending Garrett like a brother because you think he is average? What are we talking about here?

Why do you want an average coach here in Dallas?
again you are mixing up argument. I simply disagree that he is garbage, bottom of the heap, etc. that garrett haters keep insisting on....you referenced Media, so I presented to you the media consensus. I don't much care about fan opinions. its totally irrelevant to the discussion.

and if you read through my responses. I never said we should keep him. I simply said he is middle of the pack. I have said repeatedly which you missed since seemingly you only read the first few words and start to respond, that he hasn't had success in the playoffs and ultimately its about post season success.

your hatred comes through loud and clear. like I mentioned it seems personal to you, as for me I am not making it personal.

I never said I want an average coach in Dallas. so quit making things up. and if you looked at my other posts in the past on garrett, I have said, if he doesn't get to NFCCG and be competitive, its time to move on. he is here NOW. we CANNOT change the past. he is not going to get fired this year. unlike you I don't wish for us to have a bad year so I can win and argument. I want us to succeed this year. if we end up winning the superbowl with Garrett, then great. we won a superbowl.

simply, take the emotions out of it.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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So that means what exactly? That you lower your standards for a coach here in Dallas?

All the puppets we have ever had were joke. Garrett is no different.

The biggest issue with Garrett is that he was in control of the offense for the last 14 years.
you are trying to spin into something for arguing a point, that is totally irrelevant to the discussion....

simply put, working with Jerry is a challenge. a lot of great coaches would avoid dallas because of Jones. two of the great highly respected coaches tried, failed and quit. its a Fact that Jerry meddles. its a fact that jerry is a coach from his suite. its a fact that jerry is overly involved. and exactly the point, all the coaches were puppets. some more than others.

and I hear different stories from garrett haters and its inconsistent. now yu say he was in charge of offense for the past 14 years, and I showed you the offensive results. then some of you say, it was linehan. or somebody else. so which is it. is it garrett or is it linehan or is it somebody else.

by this standard, given the same garrett haters here were fawning over Pederson, do we now give credit to Reich, who seemingly made the philly offense successful given Pederson since Reich's departure has struggled offensively?
 

CowboyRoy

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I never called garrett an offensive guru. that's your interpretation. I simply don't call him garbage like garrett haters insist on doing. I presented facts on offensive performance under garrett.

secondly, its not unusual for former DCs and OCs to relinquish their calling duties. its pretty typical in the NFL. most coaches have a coordinator background, with exception of a few like John Harbaugh in Baltimore who was a specials teams coach. they implement an offensive system or philosophy and hire coaches that can execute the philosophy and over time they change as needed.

you keep insisting on how long ago, not sure the relevance of that. I outlined those times for you from the time he was a coordinator through when he was the head coach.....we were #5 in 2016.....

Just because Garrett's offense had a productive season years ago doesn't mean he is a good OC. Far from it.

The biggest problem with Garrett has been his inability to adjust, keep up with the modern offenses and avoid being predictable.

If Moore has a great year THIS year then he becomes boring and predictable while the rest of the NFL offense rolls on, then he isn't a good OC.

That is your relevance of how long ago.

In 2016 Linehan had a great year. He started doing new things that Garrett rarely did and it surprised other teams. And obviously the surprise of Zeke and Dak.

So is Linehan a great OC? Nope. Because the league quickly caught onto what he was doing and he couldn't adjust.

Are you getting a picture of why a random year of good offense doenst make a good OC?

This isn't tough stuff. Yet you continue to stick up for Garrett who you say "is not a good offensive mind" and "is an average HC".
 

CowboyRoy

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again you are mixing up argument. I simply disagree that he is garbage, bottom of the heap, etc. that garrett haters keep insisting on....you referenced Media, so I presented to you the media consensus. I don't much care about fan opinions. its totally irrelevant to the discussion.

and if you read through my responses. I never said we should keep him. I simply said he is middle of the pack. I have said repeatedly which you missed since seemingly you only read the first few words and start to respond, that he hasn't had success in the playoffs and ultimately its about post season success.

your hatred comes through loud and clear. like I mentioned it seems personal to you, as for me I am not making it personal.

I never said I want an average coach in Dallas. so quit making things up. and if you looked at my other posts in the past on garrett, I have said, if he doesn't get to NFCCG and be competitive, its time to move on. he is here NOW. we CANNOT change the past. he is not going to get fired this year. unlike you I don't wish for us to have a bad year so I can win and argument. I want us to succeed this year. if we end up winning the superbowl with Garrett, then great. we won a superbowl.

simply, take the emotions out of it.

Try to understand that fans with very high standards are going to think average JAGS are garbage.

Heath is garbage, Garrett is garbage, Linehan is garbage. That's my opinion.

Maybe what I call garbage, you call decent. Who knows?

What is more ridiculous is that you continue to fight for and stick up for a coach you don't like.

We need a better HC here in Dallas.

However, with Garrett reduced to sideline clapper and no longer in command of the offense, he is no longer holding back the team as he was in the past.

Because of this, it IS possible we could win it all. Given enough talent and how good of an OC Moore can become.

Nothing to do with Garrett, however.
 

CowboyRoy

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you are trying to spin into something for arguing a point, that is totally irrelevant to the discussion....

simply put, working with Jerry is a challenge. a lot of great coaches would avoid dallas because of Jones. two of the great highly respected coaches tried, failed and quit. its a Fact that Jerry meddles. its a fact that jerry is a coach from his suite. its a fact that jerry is overly involved. and exactly the point, all the coaches were puppets. some more than others.

and I hear different stories from garrett haters and its inconsistent. now yu say he was in charge of offense for the past 14 years, and I showed you the offensive results. then some of you say, it was linehan. or somebody else. so which is it. is it garrett or is it linehan or is it somebody else.

by this standard, given the same garrett haters here were fawning over Pederson, do we now give credit to Reich, who seemingly made the philly offense successful given Pederson since Reich's departure has struggled offensively?

You have already said that Garrett is NOT a good OC. So why do you continue to act otherwise?

"Which is it"...……….is a question I need to be asking you.

If you don't like Garrett either, then shut up already.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Just because Garrett's offense had a productive season years ago doesn't mean he is a good OC. Far from it.

The biggest problem with Garrett has been his inability to adjust, keep up with the modern offenses and avoid being predictable.

If Moore has a great year THIS year then he becomes boring and predictable while the rest of the NFL offense rolls on, then he isn't a good OC.

That is your relevance of how long ago.

In 2016 Linehan had a great year. He started doing new things that Garrett rarely did and it surprised other teams. And obviously the surprise of Zeke and Dak.

So is Linehan a great OC? Nope. Because the league quickly caught onto what he was doing and he couldn't adjust.

Are you getting a picture of why a random year of good offense doenst make a good OC?

This isn't tough stuff. Yet you continue to stick up for Garrett who you say "is not a good offensive mind" and "is an average HC".
ok, not sure what you are confusing....when he was the OC, he produced top 10 offenses. then he became head coach and his offense still produced top 10 offenses.

what's so confusing about that? you keep insisting he was OC years ago.....so if he is not the OC now, what can he do? do you expect him to be the play caller?

and we may complain, but the proof is in the pudding and the offenses despite predictability was top 10..

again, as I have said over and over again, the post season has not been successful...

and as a coach, he has his OC, running his system and as mentioned in previous responses, they adjusted...like in 2016, linehan adjusted......that's part of the game, that's part of the process. that's part of what every coach does.

and if its moore doing the play calls, then moore is a coach under garrett, running garrett system, but calling plays.....part of a coaches job is to hire the right assistant coaches and allowing them to do their job.

and to the point that I have made, which you just pointed to....coaches adjust. linehan didn't. so linehan is gone.....

you keep going in circle, trying to make a case that garrett was OC years ago and thus him being a good offensive coach is no longer relevant. thus his old ranking are not relevant, back then and now.....as the coach...that's not relevant to the argument.

suffice it to say, we get it. you hate garrett. you are emotional about your hatred of garrett. you are personal on your hatred of garrett and you want to dismiss anything that he has done, credit everybody else and discredit anything he has had in the past. I get it. we all get it. you are entitled to your opinion. as fans we can do that. I have not argued one way or the other. I presented facts and you seemingly are arguing with yourself trying to make a very very very specific case to win an argument with yourself!

get over it dude.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Try to understand that fans with very high standards are going to think average JAGS are garbage.

Heath is garbage, Garrett is garbage, Linehan is garbage. That's my opinion.

Maybe what I call garbage, you call decent. Who knows?

What is more ridiculous is that you continue to fight for and stick up for a coach you don't like.

We need a better HC here in Dallas.

However, with Garrett reduced to sideline clapper and no longer in command of the offense, he is no longer holding back the team as he was in the past.

Because of this, it IS possible we could win it all. Given enough talent and how good of an OC Moore can become.

Nothing to do with Garrett, however.
wow....geez, fans with high standards...ok, then that makes 30 of the coaches in the league garbage....right? you either reach the superbowl or you don't and if you don't you are garbage....maybe we can loosen the standard and say, hey if you reach CG then you are not garbage, so 28 out of the 32 coaches are garbage. is McCarthy now garbage?

I have not stick up for garrett…..your angle has been that since I don't hate garrett, then I am supporting him. which is ridiculous onto it self. this is like the Dak lovers, if you don't drool and fawn over Dak, then youa re a dak hater. its a 100% in or you are a out...so in this case, its 100% hate on garrett or else you are a supporter!!!!

I have stated my opinion multiple times. I have criticized garrett. I provided you with FACTS that are out there and you are hell bent on proving that I am a garrett supporter because I didn't declare my hatred for the guy....

that's your issue. not mine.
 
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