Zeke's Fumble

Runwildboys · Sep 30, 2019

Denim Chicken said:
That's ridiculous to me. So if the call is wrong (& too close to call) a time out is more important than a game changing turnover?

I think their belief is that they'll always get it right, with the benefit of replay............."Their" belief, not mine.

Runwildboys · Sep 30, 2019

Fletch said:
One could say had Witten not fumbled, we’d have been at least a FG up. That one actually hurt the most!

It did, but at least it was a legit fumble.

Fletch · Sep 30, 2019

Runwildboys said:
It did, but at least it was a legit fumble.

Nothing legit about coughing up the ball.

Sydla · Sep 30, 2019

AbeBeta said:
He's got to reach out on 4th down to make sure he gets the first. If he tucks that ball, there is a good chance we turn it over on downs.

He was beyond the line. When the ball got ripped out he wasn’t reaching out.

It was a bad call but he needs to hold onto that ball.

TruBluSince1982 · Sep 30, 2019

I agreed with the call myself. Not enough evidence to overturn the original call IMO.

CanadianCowboysFan · Sep 30, 2019

TruBluSince1982 said:
I agreed with the call myself. Not enough evidence to overturn the original call IMO.

Yeah the decision not to overturn was likely correct as there was nothing to overturn, hence the "stands" call but the original call was wrong.

CT Dal Fan · Sep 30, 2019

Fletch said:
One could say had Witten not fumbled, we’d have been at least a FG up. That one actually hurt the most!

True, but the Saints punted after Witten's fumble. They got three points off of Zeke's and one could argue that was the difference in the game.

It was just a crappy night. If the Cowboys bounce back next week we'll forget all about this. :starspin:

blueblood70 · Sep 30, 2019

glimmerman said:
Lol. Look we lost and I get it. But Elliot did not fumble. He was down. They got a free fg attempt. Witten fumbles and I saw it coming from my chair. Was hoping he would hold on to it or just go down. It was a first down on a scoring drive. But end of the night we didn’t do enough. Not very aggressive with the play calling. No deep shots down field. The mistakes cost us but we should have picked them apart.

yup if it can go wrong it will go wrong.. it hopefully was an anomaly and if Jerry gets wind that Garett somehow influenced and or forced Moore to go conservative, that wont go over to well..

I mean there has to be reason for it , Pollard hardly used, RPOs all but disappeared 1st down runs all looked like Linehan called game.. Moore has to grow a backbone and say IM THE OC butt out.. if im going to lose im doing it my way..not saying it happened maybe Moore thought if he did the opposite of the first 3 games it would catch NO off balance..it did not lol

blueblood70 · Sep 30, 2019

tyke1doe said:
Word of advice: if you're going to rebuke me, at least have your sentence structure in correct form so I can understand what the heck you are talking about.
Second, Zeke should have held onto the ball.
Third, I didn't say Emmitt Smith didn't fumble. I said he didn't fumble at critical times in a game. Now, maybe I'm wrong and you have a particular incident to refute my statement. If you do, by all means offer it as a rebuttal.

We need a yawning emoticon. Zeke should have held onto the ball. PERIOD!!!

But this thread is about … Zeke's fumble.

Just because you can't understand my point doesn't make it irrational.
Second, SEE now THIS is a strawman, @TwoDeep3. I never said he can't ever make a mistake from here on out. But let me help you out on why I raised the money issue.
Money relates to EXPECTATIONS. The more you make, particularly if you're a superstar athlete, the more we expect you're going to be a superstar athlete at critical moments. I DON'T expect Kellen Moore to be a Super Bowl caliber quarterback. I DO expect Brady to be one based on his value, which has a direct correlation to how much money he makes. Value is often associated with money and how much one makes. So, YES, I expect a running back who held out of camp to get more money because he's THAT valuable to the Cowboys to HOLD ON TO THE FOOTBALL IN A PILE AT A CRITICAL MOMENT IN A GAME!

See, that wasn't so hard to understand now was it?

MEH,

I type like I text, HERE, OK Grammar ****?

if you are going to have blanket statement that ES has not had fumble/mistake in a critical situation, you need to show proof.. The burden is on the accuser..

I do remember an NFCCG where we got down 21-0 against SF ,HOF players were fumbling, MI is one maybe 2 times and there were others..Big time HOF Generational players MAKE MISTAKES..FACT

I do know ES failed on a 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 back to back..hmm I guess hes Human, why couldn't he get that one yard was he slow and fat? did he not make one person miss?LOL....

but FACT it was called fumble but all the evidence says it was not so why are we debating it.. the ball was ripped out AFTER HIS elbow touched..

TruBluSince1982 · Sep 30, 2019

CanadianCowboysFan said:
Yeah the decision not to overturn was likely correct as there was nothing to overturn, hence the "stands" call but the original call was wrong.

I suppose but they are very rarely ever going to be able to see real time "in a pile" if there is a fumble or not, hence just calling it a fumble and letting the automatic replay confirm one way or the other.

Fletch · Sep 30, 2019

Future said:
Bad call, worse decision to go for it.

Nah. Was a great decision! We had the first.

glimmerman · Sep 30, 2019

blueblood70 said:
MEH,

I type like I text, HERE, OK Grammar ****?

if you are going to have blanket statement that ES has not had fumble/mistake in a critical situation, you need to show proof.. The burden is on the accuser..

I do remember an NFCCG where we got down 21-0 against SF ,HOF players were fumbling, MI is one maybe 2 times and there were others..Big time HOF Generational players MAKE MISTAKES..FACT

I do know ES failed on a 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 back to back..hmm I guess hes Human, why couldn't he get that one yard was he slow and fat? did he not make one person miss?LOL....

but FACT it was called fumble but all the evidence says it was not so why are we debating it.. the ball was ripped out AFTER HIS elbow touched..

Elbow and likely knee and hip..

Kaiser · Sep 30, 2019

mmohican29 said:
To the OP's point, I believe Collinsworth's bantered input questioning what everyone objectively should have seen as Zeke down was the sway factor for the "not enough evidence to overturn"

I hate Collinsworth, its comical to hear him make a definitive statement, the refs then say the opposite and then hear Collinsworth agree with the opposite of what he said in the first place.

He is the classic dumb jock who thinks he is smart because he had physical skills.

ABQCOWBOY · Sep 30, 2019

DuncanIso said:
He had it ripped from his arms. While his elbow was down.

I watched the game. Doesn't mean anything. He let lose of the ball and it was called a fumble. Here is Zeke's thoughts, in his own words:

“It’s unacceptable. This team relies on me in moments like that - 4th and 1. I just can’t let the team down like that,” Zeke said. “It does not really matter if my elbow was down. I have to take care of the ball in that situation. The team relies on me to take care of the ball.

“I don’t care if the elbow was down or not. I can’t leave any error for doubt.”

He can't put it on the ground. He knows and understands that. Can't happen.

tyke1doe · Sep 30, 2019

blueblood70 said:
MEH,

I type like I text, HERE, OK Grammar ****?

if you are going to have blanket statement that ES has not had fumble/mistake in a critical situation, you need to show proof.. The burden is on the accuser..

Grammar **** at your service.

I didn't attack your grammar simply for misspelling a word. I attacked your grammar because it was incomprehensible. The key to communication is understanding. You responded to my post so CLEARLY you wanted me to understand what you were writing.

Second, no, I don't have to show proof. (By the way, I didn't accuse Emmitt of anything.) I merely have to appeal to Emmitt's overall character, talent and clutchiness. Few dispute this. Those who take exception to it must show the proof. So, for example, if I say, Brady is clutch when the game is on the line, I don't have to prove that because many if not most people know Brady based on his clutch performances. It's pretty much common knowledge. The person taking exception to his clutchiness would have to show how and why he isn't clutch.

I do remember an NFCCG where we got down 21-0 against SF ,HOF players were fumbling, MI is one maybe 2 times and there were others..Big time HOF Generational players MAKE MISTAKES..FACT

Way to move from a specific point to a general one. I didn't mention EVERY HALL OF FAME PLAYER. I mentioned ONE: first name, Emmitt, last name, Smith.

I do know ES failed on a 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 back to back..hmm I guess hes Human, why couldn't he get that one yard was he slow and fat? did he not make one person miss?LOL....

So we're moving from what I said about fumbling to Emmitt not converting a 3 and 1 and 4 and 1. You're reaching now. :laugh:

but FACT it was called fumble but all the evidence says it was not so why are we debating it.. the ball was ripped out AFTER HIS elbow touched..

tyke1doe · Sep 30, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
I watched the game. Doesn't mean anything. He let lose of the ball and it was called a fumble. Here is Zeke's thoughts, in his own words:

“It’s unacceptable. This team relies on me in moments like that - 4th and 1. I just can’t let the team down like that,” Zeke said. “It does not really matter if my elbow was down. I have to take care of the ball in that situation. The team relies on me to take care of the ball.

“I don’t care if the elbow was down or not. I can’t leave any error for doubt.”

He can't put it on the ground. He knows and understands that. Can't happen.

Thank you, ABQ and Zeke for understanding the point.

nightrain · Sep 30, 2019

TwoDeep3 said:
I am biased. Let's get that out there up front.

I watched the replay of the fumble by Zeke, as everyone who watched the game did. I disagree with the comments made about clear evidence.

Now let's also get this out of the way. I think it is a huge mistake for the broadcast to have an official second guessing the call. There is a reason baseball does not allow replays of balls and strikes to occur on the stadium big screens. My belief is this exacerbates the fans angst over missed calls. Especially when the "expert" in the booth seems to either get it wrong, or disagrees with the eye in the sky that is the ultimate arbiter.

To me (remember the bias) Zeke's elbow was down. The "expert" suggested the ball was moving, yet - again, to me - it did not move until he hit the ground. The "expert" said he did not have control. Yet the ball was still in the crook of his arm until he touched down.

I could be wrong. Most here that know me can point to those times with ease. But in that scrum, I don't believe the refs had enough information to make that call to begin with.

I also think the completely asinine thought process of reversing the call leaves out a significant aspect. The fact in a scrum, the refs don't have a clear cut view, and therefore cannot make an accurate call. The refs could not possibly see that fumble from any angle they had. So the automatic cannot reverse the call has a flaw that the refs cannot say they just didn't see it correctly.

In Zeke's defense, he usually is really good at covering up. But he, like every other ball carrier will occasionally put it on the ground. I think this was a bang bang play and there was no ref that could clearly see the ball come out and whether is was down or it was a strip.

I surely think the "expert" is just winging it, and find this aspect of the game as a way to stir up the viewing audience. In other words I believe this is a stupid idea.

But again, I believe Zeke was down and there was no clear cut view by the officials on the field to make the initial call, and the "expert" was incorrect in his elbow touching before the ball slipped out.

Just my opinion.

The clear evidence was needed to over rule the call on the field. There was movement of the ball before his elbow hit. Zeke just needs to hold onto the dang ball.

CWR · Sep 30, 2019

TwoDeep3 said:
I agree with your first point and disagree with your second.

It was one of those nights. They happen.

But the Linehan comment I take issue with. Part of the movement pre snap requires the QB to be heard for the snap of the ball for the guys on the wings. It seems to me the only way you can assure that is a pre arranged silent count. The movement would effect that snap count.

I could be wrong. Not taking a shot at you.

No I was more irritated with the running the ball into a pile on first down. Maybe it didn't happen that often but it felt like it. Really though, it was just one of those games.

ABQCOWBOY · Sep 30, 2019

tyke1doe said:
Thank you, ABQ and Zeke for understanding the point.

Appreciate it but don't thank me. Thank my Pop Warner Position Coach. He's the one who taught me that lesson.

:laugh:

ChuckA1 · Sep 30, 2019

Special replay has become a joke. Many calls have been terrible and the replay decisions even worse. And I'm referring to league wide, not just for the Cowboys.

Zeke's Fumble

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