Problem w/Zeke’s Contract

superonyx said:

When the conversation is about percentage of salary cap for a player or position of course a DE taking up $20M of that is relevant. Just like Jaylon Smiths contract is relevant.
Every position is relevant to the conversation. The salary of a player and the percentage of the cap they take up needs to weighed by the impact that have on the game.

If you want to pretend that Zeke hasnt had an impact on the game then this conversation just went down to stupidsville and i'm not interested in hanging out with you in that town.

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Its not relevant because they don't play the same positions. LBs and DEs make more than TBs. So comparing what each percentage is to the cap makes little sense. LBs and DEs often take up more percentage of the cap space than TBs.

The fair comparison is compare Zeke to other TBs and other teams and what they are spending on their running games.

You are misinterpreting the last question. It's not that Zeke hasn't had any impact, the point is if he's so good and he's worth every penny we are paying him, he's certainly not impacted the game enough to prevent this team from going 3-3. That's the point. Are you getting your investment out of him? I'd so no because you can't argue he's the best offensive player and what makes the offense go and why he deserves all that money and then turn around and basically say he has no bearing on the fact the team is only 3-3 and the offense hasn't looked all that good.

If Elliott is reliant on other players and that's why we are 3-3, then guess what? Elliott isn't the big game changer you are paying for. He should be able to totally take over games himself. He hasn't.

What's stupidville is claiming he's a game changing back deserving of all that money but then turn around and claim you can't criticize him or think he's overpaid because the OL isn't blocking for him, etc.

Sydla said:

I wouldn't "blame" him for what's happening but what's happening is also proving that signing him to a massive deal might not have been a wise investment.

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Once again


Fans are just trying to find something to complain about right now


He is on pace for 1400 yards and 14TDs on a team whose Quarterback is 3rd in yardage

Why are we complaining about the contract, right now?

if you want to complain about someone’s contract, it should be Tank’s

WillieBeamen said:

I didnt say nothing about him not losing burst

And barkley is better


Like i said, he is one of the last players that should be blamed for what is going on here

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That's one of the main points of the thread - that Zeke went from a well-rounded talent, to more of a between the tackles power back. The argument before this year was, if we just go through Zeke, we win. He ran the ball almost 30 times yesterday, still only had a little over 100 yards, and a 3.8 ypc.

You don't win in this league due to RBs. That's the problem with RBs, they simply don't win you many games - if I remember correctly, elite RBs make a difference of something like a half a point in games. He isn't worth the money we gave him. I doubt Barkley will be either.

WillieBeamen said:

Once again


Fans are just trying to find something to complain about right now


He is on pace for 1400 yards and 14TDs on a team whose Quarterback is 3rd in yardage

Why are we complaining about the contract, right now?

if you want to complain about someone’s contract, it should be Tank’s

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Again, what Tank makes is irrelevant to whether or not signing Elliott to a huge contract was wise. Maybe the answer is both were dumb contracts and throw Jaylon Smith's in there as well if you want.

And this isn't complaining from me just because we are 3-3. I've said for two years that signing him to a long term deal was going to be a mistake. This season is just proving to me again that it wasn't a wise investment. Because while he's playing well, he's having a limited impact on the season and frankly, we could be 3-3 right now with paying our TBs half of what Elliott is making.

This game is too reliant on OL play and QB play to think that a TB can make such a massive impact. As you said, Elliott may run for 1400 yards but if he gets bad play from Prescott? The season is likely over.

WillieBeamen said:

Once again


Fans are just trying to find something to complain about right now


He is on pace for 1400 yards and 14TDs on a team whose Quarterback is 3rd in yardage

Why are we complaining about the contract, right now?

if you want to complain about someone’s contract, it should be Tank’s

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In the past 3 weeks, he has one game with a little over 100 yards on 28 carries. If he continues on the pace he's been on since week 4, he won't be a 1,400 yard back. might reach 14 TDs, but a single TD by an RB in a game isn't exactly game changing to me.

Pollard is better than Zeke for this team in regards to his ability to put his foot in the ground and hit the hole.

The ONLY thing Zeke provides is an ability to fall forward for 2-3 more yards.

I'd give Pollard and Zeke a 50/50 split

mattjames2010 said:

In the past 3 weeks, he has one game with a little over 100 yards on 28 carries. If he continues on the pace he's been on since week 4, he won't be a 1,400 yard back. might reach 14 TDs, but a single TD by an RB in a game isn't exactly game changing to me.

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Context

Saints he struggled but they have a good front. Fournette averaged 3.6 ypc yesterday

Packers got up 31-3 at one point.

He was great in the second half yesteday


The people complaining about Zeke are those that either didnt like the pick in the first place or are still mad he held out

WillieBeamen said:

Context

Saints he struggled but they have a good front

Packers got up 31-3 at one point.

He was great in the second half yesteday


The people complaining about Zeke are those that either didnt like the pick in the first place or are still mad he held out

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Or people that understand teams are winning without pouring a crap ton of cap space into one TB.

Sydla said:

Or people that understand teams are winning without pouring a crap ton of cap space into one TB.

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Yes teams with Elite coaching or Elite Quarterbacking


We have neither

Of all the players to complain about Zeke isn’t one.

Coaching is the real culprit both offensively and defensively.

WillieBeamen said:

Yes teams with Elite coaching or Elite Quarterbacking


We have neither

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LOL, so that justifies then overpaying for a TB?

So basically compound a coaching and QB problem with a TB contract problem.

Actually, that is soooooooooo Dallas Cowboys.

WillieBeamen said:

Context

Saints he struggled but they have a good front. Fournette averaged 3.6 ypc yesterday

Packers got up 31-3 at one point.

He was great in the second half yesteday


The people complaining about Zeke are those that either didnt like the pick in the first place or are still mad he held out

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So he couldn't do anything against the Saints despite being considered the best of the best. Okay. We were down 31-3, which means he wasn't doing a whole lot when we were down 7-0 or 14-0 or 21-3. You're pointing out the problem with the RB position here. They are easily taken out of the game. Why do you want to pay someone that much money when they can be taken out of the game if you are simply down by two scores? And his longest run yesterday was 13 yards, he wasn't destroying that defense...ever. It was an average performance.

Sydla said:

LOL, so that justifies then overpaying for a TB?

So basically compound a coaching and QB problem with a TB contract problem.

Actually, that is soooooooooo Dallas Cowboys.

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I checkmated your point...

Once again


The problem with the Cowboys Isnt the contract of Ezekiel Elliott. At least right now it isnt.

dragon_mikal said:

Of all the players to complain about Zeke isn’t one.

Coaching is the real culprit both offensively and defensively.

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Zeke got a fat contract. Yes, yes, he is justifiably criticized.

mattjames2010 said:

His longest run in yesterdays game was 13 yards. It's not like he was busting off big gains. So he couldn't do anything against the Saints despite being considered the best of the best. Okay. We were down 31-3, which means he wasn't doing a whole lot when we were down 7-0 or 14-0 or 21-3. You're pointing out the problem with the RB position here. They are easily taken out of the game. Why do you want to pay someone that much money when they can be taken out of the game if you are simply down by two scores? And his longest run yesterday was 13 yards, he wasn't destroying that defense...ever. It was an average performance.

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Who cares what his longest run was? You are grasping at straws right now.

The Saints front has shut down EVERY top running back this season. Gurley, Carson, Zeke, and Fournette.

and the packers game got out of control because of goofy turnovers and the defense giving up points quickly

WillieBeamen said:

Who cares what his longest run was? You are grasping at straws right now.

The Saints front has shut down EVERY top running back this season. Gurley, Carson, Zeke, and Fournette.

and the packers game got out of control because of goofy turnovers and the defense giving up points quickly

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In a game where we needed scores and to get into field goal range, are you suggesting having a 30-40 yard run WOULDN'T have helped us? It matters, dude. Right now, he's simply a power back and can punch it in at the goal line at times. That's great, but that's not 80 million worth.

mattjames2010 said:

In a game where we needed scores and to get into field goal range, are you suggesting having a 30-40 yard run WOULDN'T have helped us? It matters, dude. Right now, he's simply a power back and can punch it in at the goal line at times. That's great, but that's not 80 million worth.

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Yes a 30-40 yard run wouldve helped us.

A defense that doesnt give up 92 yarders, a QB that leads TD drives, and a FG kicker that can make 40 yarders would help us more. That is my point.

superonyx said:

Zeke is on pace for over 1400 yards and 14 TDs. Jaylon Smith and Demarcus Lawrence are stealing money while our defense sucks. Rushing offense is #5 in the league.

Grow up.

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WELL SAID!!!!!!! Got no problem with Zeke...He manned up yesterday..Where was Tank & Jaylon?! Nothing from either of them.

Sydla said:

Its not relevant because they don't play the same positions. LBs and DEs make more than TBs. So comparing what each percentage is to the cap makes little sense. LBs and DEs often take up more percentage of the cap space than TBs.

The fair comparison is compare Zeke to other TBs and other teams and what they are spending on their running games.

You are misinterpreting the last question. It's not that Zeke hasn't had any impact, the point is if he's so good and he's worth every penny we are paying him, he's certainly not impacted the game enough to prevent this team from going 3-3. That's the point. Are you getting your investment out of him? I'd so no because you can't argue he's the best offensive player and what makes the offense go and why he deserves all that money and then turn around and basically say he has no bearing on the fact the team is only 3-3 and the offense hasn't looked all that good.

If Elliott is reliant on other players and that's why we are 3-3, then guess what? Elliott isn't the big game changer you are paying for. He should be able to totally take over games himself. He hasn't.

What's stupidville is claiming he's a game changing back deserving of all that money but then turn around and claim you can't criticize him or think he's overpaid because the OL isn't blocking for him, etc.

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This is completely false. If a RB and a DE are on the same team and are eating from the same salary cap pie then you can absolutely compare them. This has more of a basis of caparison than trying to compare what other teams are choosing to do or another teams talent level at the same position. You obviously don't want this comparison because it doesnt help your point.

When 1 player is asking for a high salary it absolutely impacts the entire team and every other position on your team. So yes which player or positions you choose to allocate your resources need to be weighed across the entire team.

Look around the league at the production teams are getting from DE's paid less than Lawrence.

You may not want to look at how our DE who is eating up 20m in salary is 48th in the league in doing what we are paying him to do while our RB who is eating up $12m is 6th in the league. Look who is ahead of both guys. You will find that the guys currently ahead of Zeke were all high draft picks. You wont find that with Lawrence.

So a player who is getting $12m per year now carries the expectations to be so good that he should be able to overcome a leaky defense and receivers with vasoline covered hands and a coaching staff that has been neutered a long time ago.

You are expecting way to much out of this 12m. Why are you not yelling at Martin, Frederick, Tyron Smith, Jaylon, Lawrence, Crawford, Quinn to overcome everyone one else?

Was never in favor of signing Zeke to a second long term, big money contract. I would have traded him but having said this, I don't hate the contract, the way it's structured. Full disclosure, was never in favor of taking him at 4 over all. Has nothing to do with Zeke, necessarily, has to do with what I think about the NFL game today. I'm a Run guy, always have been but the value is just not there for them IMO.

All these guys who say this is Zeke's team and we can't win without him, well....... he got paid and we can't seem to win with him either. This is why I would not have paid him, it's not about Zeke. It's about the game as it is played and called today.