Jason Witten - now ranked 4th among TEs this season

Walker

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The dude still gets it done as an old man but he is hated on the zone forums. Not sure how someone can hate a guy who has given everything to this organization, and has played no where else but here with the STAR on his helmet. Dude has been loyal to the cowboys and surprisingly still playing at a high level. At his worst looks like he is still good/elite, at his prime the dude was in the best category.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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The dude still gets it done as an old man but he is hated on the zone forums. Not sure how someone can hate a guy who has given everything to this organization, and has played no where else but here with the STAR on his helmet. Dude has been loyal to the cowboys and surprisingly still playing at a high level. At his worst looks like he is still good/elite, at his prime the dude was in the best category.

I guess it's true what they say, "Can't Please Everybody."
 

dsturgeon

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Jarwin will have to learn to block better. Those early down you will see them run more so why would you have your best blocking TE sitting? I like Jarwin but he is more of a receiver than a true TE.

that is true, he is more of a passing TE, but teams all over the league utilized passing TE's. We can have an explosive offense. Witten can get you first downs, but he doesn't give plays that kill you. If the WR keep doing the things they are doing, and we utilized a passing TE (with explosive plays), zeke's lanes would open.

Teams run in all sorts of ways. The cowboys have a great offensive line, and Daks passing game and WR's have improved. You can't make the argument with those 2 factors, that the only way the top RB in the league can run, is if he has a slightly better blocking TE than witten
 

Doomsday101

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that is true, he is more of a passing TE, but teams all over the league utilized passing TE's. We can have an explosive offense. Witten can get you first downs, but he doesn't give plays that kill you. If the WR keep doing the things they are doing, and we utilized a passing TE (with explosive plays), zeke's lanes would open.

Yes some teams, Dallas wants balance in their offense and the run game is a big part. Fact is Witten is doing the job they are asking of him which is blocking and helping to move the chains. Last year we had 3 TE who did very little and while I like Jarwin if all he can do is be a receiver then get a big WR with better speed and call him a TE.
 

dsturgeon

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Yes some teams, Dallas wants balance in their offense and the run game is a big part. Fact is Witten is doing the job they are asking of him which is blocking and helping to move the chains. Last year we had 3 TE who did very little and while I like Jarwin if all he can do is be a receiver then get a big WR with better speed and call him a TE.

You are locked in a fallacy. The cowboys do not need slightly better blocking from witten to have a run game or move the chains. Teams do it all around the league with far less.

People are sentimental about witten and cant see past it. 4th best TE ranking or not
 

ABQCOWBOY

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that is true, he is more of a passing TE, but teams all over the league utilized passing TE's. We can have an explosive offense. Witten can get you first downs, but he doesn't give plays that kill you. If the WR keep doing the things they are doing, and we utilized a passing TE (with explosive plays), zeke's lanes would open.

Teams run in all sorts of ways. The cowboys have a great offensive line, and Daks passing game and WR's have improved. You can't make the argument with those 2 factors, that the only way the top RB in the league can run, is if he has a slightly better blocking TE than witten

We already have an explosive Offense. I don't understand where all of this is coming from?
 

Doomsday101

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You are locked in a fallacy. The cowboys do not need slightly better blocking from witten to have a run game or move the chains. Teams do it all around the league with far less.

People are sentimental about witten and cant see past it. 4th best TE ranking or not

Not all teams run the same offense. Some of these TE are decent blockers but they do not get pushed back into the running lane as Jarwin does. I like him but he is not a guy I want in for the majority of snaps at that position.
 

dsturgeon

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We already have an explosive Offense. I don't understand where all of this is coming from?

I said it. You get plays that will kill the other team with Jarwin. You can run different types of plays with him. You can't stack the box, if you are hitting big passes down the seam, throwing TE screens, and so forth. They are sacrificing big plays for slightly better blocking from a TE
 

Techsass

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Another either/or debate on 2 different skillsets.

Jason isn't the deep threat, but he does get open a lot.
Jarwin may be a better receiving threat, but he doesn't create as many easy throws as Jason does.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I said it. You get plays that will kill the other team with Jarwin. You can run different types of plays with him. You can't stack the box, if you are hitting big passes down the seam, throwing TE screens, and so forth. They are sacrificing big plays for slightly better blocking from a TE

Yeah, you said it. In post #83, you said, "We can have an explosive offense." This is exactly what you said. Well, we already have an explosive Offense. You can run those plays you mention now, with Jarwin but have you seen them? What makes you think that starting him changes the Offense? What makes you think that we would go away from what is working now, so that we could change the Offense to suite your vision? I mean, we can do that now and we don't.

Why would you say that Defenses can't stack the box if Jarwin is starting? I mean, that's not true. Of course you can do that. We are getting big plays now and we are also getting superior blocking in the run game and in pass protection, not just "Slightly Better" either. Our Offense is something like 5th in the league in big plays now. Yeah, none of what you are saying now tracks with what I'm seeing out of our Offense. At some point, we will need to upgrade the TE position but starting Jarwin over Witten now is not it IMO.

I'm a fan of Two TE Offense but I'm not going to bleed out on the hill over it when the Offense we currently have is clearly capable of being top 5 or better, in the entire league. I can't make that argument and still be honest about it. I don't see it.
 

gimmesix

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I said it. You get plays that will kill the other team with Jarwin. You can run different types of plays with him. You can't stack the box, if you are hitting big passes down the seam, throwing TE screens, and so forth. They are sacrificing big plays for slightly better blocking from a TE

It isn't just for slightly better blocking. Our other TEs do not have the same understanding of the game that Witten does. One reason Dak took so many sacks last year is because he did not have a reliable outlet. At times, you could see him searching and double clutching looking for somewhere to throw the ball. One of Witten's strengths is his understanding of the game, knowing where the soft spots are, knowing how to create just enough separation to make himself a target, knowing what his quarterback needs on a given play.

Look at the FG drive we had at the end of the half against Philly. Every team tries to protect the sideline in that situation and make the offense throw over the middle so that the defense can run down the clock. Yet, twice Witten was able to get himself open on the sideline. That's quite an accomplishment in that situation.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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The dude still gets it done as an old man but he is hated on the zone forums. Not sure how someone can hate a guy who has given everything to this organization, and has played no where else but here with the STAR on his helmet. Dude has been loyal to the cowboys and surprisingly still playing at a high level. At his worst looks like he is still good/elite, at his prime the dude was in the best category.
its the madden football mentality of the Gen Z...they want stars that perform at a high level at every and I mean every position. they think/wish/imagine/want Jarwin to be the next Kelce or Celek, where he is far far far from that....they point to a few plays here and there and say get rid of witten because we want to attack down field and Jarwin is that guy....they can't imagine or understand his limitations as a football player and a TE. its the ESPN highlights driven mentality, take the few plays and extrapolate to career. it was the same with Rico, who caught a few passes against 5th, 6th and 7th stringers in pre-season and most here extrapolated that to a guy who will catch jump balls in the end zone and have 7 TDs inside the redzone (smh)….and they blamed garrett and coaches for not developing him....and will blame garrett until eternity.

I don't dismiss the fact that we need to upgrade the TE position, but there is only so much draft capital and so many needs. I really think last year, cowboys wanted Dallas Goedert. they almost had him until Philly jumped ahead of us. I would have thought if we like the guy, trade up one spot give up a 6th and get a 7th or something similar and get the guy. they settled for Williams and them drafting another Guard, high in the draft this year kinds of makes me believe that was the case.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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I said it. You get plays that will kill the other team with Jarwin. You can run different types of plays with him. You can't stack the box, if you are hitting big passes down the seam, throwing TE screens, and so forth. They are sacrificing big plays for slightly better blocking from a TE
where is he on the pecking order of recievers on the team (WR, TE)…..?
 

keysersoze

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100%. I'm a huge fan and he's blowing me away here. Unprecedented at his age after a year out of the league.
Witten has always taken his job seriously and strives for perfection. Honestly I am not surprised at all. It’s what’s come to be expected from him.
 

dsturgeon

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One of the best Olines in the league, arguably the top RB in the league, fast WR who can run routes, a QB who is now a threat running and passing, and the whole offense hangs on the balance between Witten and Jarwin.

If witten is not blocking, the sky falls for the offense.
 

DanA

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I actually think we have a really nicely balanced offense and Witten is a big part of what makes it tick. At times I've been frustrated with the overall offense strategy (from game to game) but it's still so so so much better than when Linehan was running things.
 

CowboysExchange

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I am not saying Witten can not be productive, but a lot of his success comes from the very good wr passing game and the running game. He is no longer a focal point, like he used to be. So, his role has become easier.
I think he should be on the field during 2 te sets, and thrown to, but if their is one te on the field, I would like to see Jarwin. I want to see TE screens, passes down the seam, and the things witten cant do.

The TE position is no longer a must for the passing game, so why not use a younger TE who can give you more of the explosive plays.
There are only so many balls to go around. If your Offense is run centric and you rely on your WRs in the Redzone, then the production of the TE is secondary. Even Ertz, what's the best TD season he's ever had? It's 8 and he's done it twice (2018/17) but look at his production in his previous 4 seasons. 13 TDs in the 4 previous seasons. That's 3.25 TDs a year and look at this season. 7 games in, or almost half way through the regular season, and he only has 1 TD. There is a balance to everything and While I understand that we all would like to have the most production at every given position, there is always that balance. The question to me is, would you trade the production of a Cooper or a Zeke for more production out of the TE position? Some of this is also about the QB, of course. Who does the QB like to throw to, who does he trust? That's who he's going to go to most in scoring situation, most of the time.
The tight end position is not an everydown position. Especially on passing plays.

Witten is the better blocker and short yardage receiver

Jarwin is a better deep threat on 3rd and 10+ yard receiver.

But Tavon Austin and Tony Pollard are better skilled players who can make big plays against top defenses and defenders so you run more dual slot wrs and dual rb formations and scale back on the everydown te passing formations and limit how involved these tes are on 3rd down and in the playoffs.

These tes get shut down against good teams so its not a question of using either of them its a question of using NEITHER OF THEM AT TIMES AND USING ZERO OF THESE SCRUB TES.

YOURE NOT GONNA ENTER A QUARTER HORSE IN THE KENTUCKY DERBY? WHY WOULD YOU USE A SHORT BALLER CHECKDOWN TE ON 3RD AND 15 OR IN THE 2 MINUTE OFFENSE. BLOCKING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A TOP WR. LOL. GRONK IS RUNNING DOWN THE FIELD DRAWING DOUBLE AND TRIPLE COVERAGE FROM TOP DEFENDERS AND OUR TES ARE JUST DRAWING BLANKETED COVERAGE AND CONTAINMENT AND YALL ACTING AS IF THEY ARENT RUNNING ROUTES ON 3RD DOWN BUT THEY ARE. THEY JUST DONT CONVERT AGAINST GOOD TEAMS. And cant score against good teams at all.

Were not trying to target our wide receivers in the red zone we just dont have a te on the field who can go up and catch a ball in the air. Quit acting as if #82 has the skillsets of ertz or Gronk or kittle who can score on top defenders and defenses and have deep ball and red zone skills.

Yall are making up excuses why the tes arent required to score but should play every passing Snap. That defies Winning Logic. Yall need to get a job as the coach for the Dallas Cowboys . Lets load up the passing formations with non scorers when its every receivers main job is to score. Blocking is secondary to scoring. Yards and receptions are secondary to scoring.Tes are supposed to be gronks and hernandez w 15 tds per year. Not wittens and Escobars w 5 tds against scrubs and excuses.
 
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CB61

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Shhhh. Some people here think Jarwin should be used more. Not the future Hall of Famer that's still getting it done.
I agree with you I just want to see jarwin use more as in more variety more complexity instead of that vanilla crap we ran in our three losses
 
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