Drafting a first round QB

Diehardblues

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i think he was taken as a developmental QB.

they knew Romo was older and recently hurt.
They thought about drafting a first round QB for the heir apparent.

i Dont think he was taken as a strictly backup. They decided to buy a lottery ticket and hope it hit with a 4th round comp pick. And the ticket hit.
I don’t believe he was drafted as heir apparent. That certainly wasn’t the hype in training camp as Moore was the #2 QB.

I go back to what Jerry said when discussing why we wouldn’t take Manziel. He wasn’t going to draft the heir apparent until Romo was done.

And I believe it’s why we didn’t pursue Lynch or Cook because those high of picks would have put more hype on them becoming heir apparent which Jerry didn’t want that pressure on Romo or QB controversy.

He felt in 4th round that Dak could be a solid backup without threatening Romo or the hype of heir apparent that comes with a higher pick.
 

32BellyOption

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Dude we aren’t drafting a QB in the first round. Dak will get a new deal and be our QB for the next 10 years. Now what we need to do is keep building that defense and refortifying that offensive line. Oh yea, and get a real NFL head coach!
 

HungryLion

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Cam Newton being "better" is a push.

Newton has been incredibly inconsistent in his career. I gave him the nod due to the MVP season and making it to a Super Bowl.

But the exact arguments over who is better or not isn’t the main point of the thread.
 

zrinkill

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As everyone knows there has been much debate over whether the Cowboys should extend Dak’s contract.

some believe the cowboys should let Dak walk and select a QB in the first round.

this thread is not intended to be a debate over how good Dak ultimately is. I just want to explore the history of drafting QB’s in the first round and see how often QB’s selected in the first round end up being better than Dak has been thus far.

I made a post on this previously in another thread a while back, but feel like it could be its own thread and is worth discussing more.

So, I am going to break down QB’s drafted in the first round from 2007 until 2017. That is 11 drafts total. I am not including QB’s from the two most recent drafts, because I feel it is too soon to make an accurate judgment on how good those QB’s are.

I am going to list every QB taken in the first round and also mark if they were top 5 or not.

2017-
Trubisky (top 5), Mahomes, Deshaun Watson.

2016- Goff (top 5), Wentz (top 5), Paxton Lynch

2015- Jameis Winston (top 5). Mariota (top 5).

2014- Blake Bortles (top 5), Manziel, Bridgewater

2013- Ej Manuel

2012- Luck (top 5), Griffin III (top 5), Tannehill, Weeden

2011- Cam Newton (top 5), Locker, Gabbert, Ponder

2010- Bradford (top 5), Tebow

2009- Stafford (top 5), Sanchez (top 5), Freeman

2008- Matt Ryan (top 5), Joe Flacco

2007- JaMarcus Russel (top 5), Brady Quinn


That is 29 total QB’s taken.

Now I realize that which of those QB’s is better than Dak and which ones aren’t, is open for some debate. I would list it like this:

QB’s better than Dak:
Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan

that is 5 of the last 29 that have been better than Dak.

QB’s in the same tier as Dak:
Goff, Wentz, Stafford, Flacco

That is 4 QB’s who are around the same tier as Dak overall.

Again, this is open for debate. But I think it’s a pretty fair list. There are a few you could argue if you want.


So of 29 QB’s taken, 5 have been clearly better. That is 17%

4 have been about the same as Dak. That is 14%

So you have a 17% chance of getting a QB better than Dak. And a 14% chance of getting one just as good.

That means you have a 69% chance of ending up with a QB that is not even as good as Dak has been.

Broken down further. 3 of the ones who have been better, were top 5 picks.

3 of the ones on the same level as Dak were top 5 picks.

15 of the 29 QB’s first round were drafted outside of the Top 5 picks. Only 3 of those 15 have been as good or better than Dak. That’s 20%

Only 20% of the QB’s drafted beyond top 5 has been as good or better than Dak.


What does this all mean?

In my opinion, what this means is, even though Dak is not an elite QB. Replacing him and getting an elite QB, or one better than him is FAR from a guaranteed thing. You have an 69% chance of drafting a QB who ends up not being even as good as Dak is.

The chances of getting a QB better than Dak plummets even further If you are taking one outside of the top 5. As we all know, high end QB prospects get taken very early in the draft.

So in my opinion, if the Cowboys do try and replace Dak with a first round QB. We have to remember that the chances are very good, that the QB won’t even be as good as Dak has been.

It’s not just about “let’s take a 1st round QB”. It has to be the RIGHT prospect.

We must also remember that to get a top 5 pick to have the best odds of landing a QB better than Dak. The Cowboys would have to either tank a season, or trade MULTIPLE first round picks, to move up into the top 5.

And even after all that, If that top 5 pick busts or isn’t any better than Dak. You have wasted a bunch of draft capital, and are no better off at the position than you currently are. Or even worse, your QB sucks and you have to draft another QB a few years later again, all the while having a team that can’t win.

I have said in the past, that I would not necessarily just be opposed to letting Dak walk. But as the history shows, replacing Dak could be much much more difficult than just throwing a first round pick at the QB position. There are a ton of QB’s taken high, who never amount to anything.

I don't see how anyone could think Watson is better than Dak
 

HungryLion

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I don't see how anyone could think Watson is better than Dak

It’s fair to think that. It’s not the main point of the thread though ya know?

some of them are reaches yes. Even with those reaches it’s still a very low probability of finding someone better.
 

Brax

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I understand. Then again, how many GM’s take that risk when they have a QB who is playing at a top 10 level?
Unless a super talent falls into your lap a team isn't going to use a #1 on a QB when they are paying heavily for the one they have now or will be paying him. Whether Dak is top 5, top 10 or top 20 doesn't matter if they pay him there is no way the team will pick a QB #1 unless it is grooming his replacement or rebuilding. Dak was in essence a 5th round pick and evaluated as such by NFL teams. There is no science to choosing QB's history shows that. Dak was chosen in 2016 as the QB by JJ which is the reason he has had no QB competition brought in.
 

CouchCoach

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The team has already sent the message that they realize they have to upgrade at S as they were willing to part with a 1st for Adams. Unknown about what players will be retained on the DL as well or if the OL needs another 1st.

Booger views the QB situation the same as he does the HC one, the devil he knows. Prescott may not be the best but he's certainly not the worst and all he has to do is look back at that draft to realize how close he came to screwing himself by moving back into the 1st to take a different and more highly touted QB.

It is debatable as to which QB is the plum in this draft but I expect at least 3 in the first 5 picks and that's not where the Cowboys will be picking and it would not surprise me at all to see NE move up to take Burrow, the closest QB to Brady in this draft. Tua will get some strong looks but he's spent too much time on the sideline and Hurts will get some consideration as a Cam Newton type QB, Herbert and Fromm haven't delivered this season but there are teams still needing that guy and they will go all in to try and get him. Fans don't get restless when a team misses on a QB, it's when they don't try like CLE didn't for a couple of drafts that gets them riled up.
 

Brax

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It was only Jerry that wanted to trade up for Lynch.
- SJones, much like with Manziel made certain that didn't happen.
They had Cook on their draft board which was leaked that year in the 2nd round.
- They drafted DT Collins in the 3rd round skipping Cook who went in the 4th.
- They had Jeff Driskel 1 spot above Dak on the board but skipped him and drafted Dak.

The draft board does not mean what most fans/media think it means.

The Cowboys spent more time with Dak pre-draft than any draft prospect since Jerry has owned the team.
Edit : sorry miss read your reply
 

CouchCoach

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I don't see how anyone could think Watson is better than Dak
I do, Prescott was considered a poor man's Watson in college and I would take Watson over him hands down. That's not putting Prescott down as I do not consider him in that top tier of QB's and I do consider Watson and Jackson above Prescott in that second tier.
 

Zman5

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well most dont think that , thats small group who truly hate dak..lol

I see players in Daks situation and Romo like Minishew, Panthers allen, Steelers backup etc that weren't high draft picks that can play at least on daks level..theres no reason why the Cowboys should have been sitting on Dak without getting some young players to be the backup vs rush..NE seems to do well getting backups and trading them etc 2-4 rounds maybe every other year they should be grabbing a QB that could be the Next Dak or Romo but they sit on Rush and then have this decisions to be tougher as you have no answer at QB2..bad planning IMO.

also odd this is one of the only franchises I see do this and for what ever reason dont want a QB controversy and even in Rushs' case why does he not get more mop up time in games we are out of or have won by the 4th QTR? to me its trying to protect the starter from having his confidence challenged if the backup shows something?

its very odd to not having a plan behind your starter if nothing more then for Injury or possible replacement bridge..

They tried with Mike White and failed miserably. Cowboys have been terrible drafting QBs. They lucked into Romo and Dak.
 

DogFace

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2021 Trevor Lawrence is the jackpot.

But this year there’s several who I’d look at. And it doesn’t have to be first round. Unless your content Cooper Rush is adequate in the event.

Here’s a few that will go in early rounds.
Tua- Bama
Herbert- Oregon
Fromm- Georgia
Eason- Washington
Hurts- OU
So would you say the chance of getting one of those and winning it all (what we all want) with one of them is a better bet than singing Dak for 35+ to win it all?
 

OmerV

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They tried with Mike White and failed miserably. Cowboys have been terrible drafting QBs. They lucked into Romo and Dak.
When drafting a QB's in the 5th round, of course a team is likely to be terrible. Don't let the fact that Dak was a 4th rounder, or that Minshew was a late rounder fool you into believing it's easy to find a quality late round QB any time a team wants. It's not even that easy finding one in the 1st round - many 1st rounders fail. But a hell of a lot higher % of 5th rounders fail.
 

Jipper

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I don’t let fear of failure dictate the efforts to upgrade any position if I am the GM. That is an attitude of fear which will result in some very safe, but very average players on a roster . Should DEs be avoided in the draft because of the performance if Taco?

i dont see it as fear of failure, i see it as people underestimate how hard it is to find a qb the quality of Dak. Despite the flaws he has, he is still a very good starting qb in a league where starting qb's are extremly hard to find.
 

JohnBoy

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I think you have to also put Dak's expected $30+ million contract renewal into this equation. Yes you might draft a QB that's not as good as Dak, but you save $30 million, presumably get some kind of trade deal for him (draft picks?), and can now see how your rookie QB turns out. After a year (or two?), if he proves he's not getting it done, well you've got $30 million to go shopping...
 

cowboygo

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I think you have to also put Dak's expected $30+ million contract renewal into this equation. Yes you might draft a QB that's not as good as Dak, but you save $30 million, presumably get some kind of trade deal for him (draft picks?), and can now see how your rookie QB turns out. After a year (or two?), if he proves he's not getting it done, well you've got $30 million to go shopping...
And thus wasting the aging O-Line. The time is now to keep adding pieces to the roster, not evaluating rookie quaterbacks.
 

Broges74

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Mahomes In KC. Brady in NE. The list goes on.

And most of the bust went to Dormant teams.

Most of the highest drafted QB’s go to bottom dwellers and why they bust at a higher margin.
No man... QBs bust due to the scouting department for teams desperate for a franchise QB overvalue guys only worthy of a 2nd or 3rd round pick, going in the top 20. Meaning guys just arent good enough to go in round 1 are going there due to the team being desperate for help at sports most influential position.

Dak will win and win plenty regardless of the team hes on given that the team has atleast an NFL mean talent level or better. Hes not the type that can win with scrubs everywhere but how many in the league are that good? Not many..

The truth here is that the QB of the Dallas Cowboys is an impossible position to be in due to the pressures and lack of critical thinking by the fans. The fans act like franchise QBs grow on trees and that Dak is horrible as they did with Romo before and pretty much every QB that didnt win a SB

Our fans dont know jack about football nor how much the system matters in the performance of the QB if your not a generational player.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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The post isn’t about being afraid to draft a QB. Saying so is just stupid nonsense on your part. This is after all just a game to us fans.

the post is about what the odds of landing a QB better than Dak is. What resources it would take to have those odds and whether or not it would
Be smart for the team to do it.


sorry you’re unable to comprehend the basics.
When it comes to Dak people to full dumb on this site for some reason. All of a sudden people can’t comprehend or think.
 

Kaiser

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I have said in the past, that I would not necessarily just be opposed to letting Dak walk. But as the history shows, replacing Dak could be much much more difficult than just throwing a first round pick at the QB position. There are a ton of QB’s taken high, who never amount to anything.

Great post. I saw this on my phone and thought about it, I have a couple of reactions.

Number one is exactly your point in the OP, 8 of the 14 QBs taken in the top five of the draft are clearly inferior players to Dak. So your point is spot on, I also think Dak is better than Goff and Wentz, which would make the number 70%. But that is subjective in the case of Goff and Wentz, just like you say.

If you extend the draft picks from the Top 5 to the Top 10, the numbers look even better for Dak.

Its also something that changes over time. Stafford is better than Dak is right now but he wasn't until he was into the middle of his career before he played at that level consistently. Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL and he never saw the field for his first three seasons in the NFL.

When you take out Tom Brady, a black swan draft event that happens once every 30 years, you really have a small group of top QBs that didn't cost the massive draft and salary haul of a Goff or Wentz. That really shows the amazing value they are getting from Prescott as a 4th round comp pick.

And on top of that, Dak's leadership, durability and ability to perform from day one make him even more valuable than his stat line shows.
 
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