Jesse Holley: Wade Phillip was sabotaged

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Kaiser

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That was mostly media narrative IMO. Players never seemed to think it was "Camp Cupcake" when they were interviewed about it and I've never heard one even after the fact state that Phillip's training camps were easy.

Sure, it wasn't a joke and the nickname was a media exaggeration. But he was known as being too easy, even if it wasn't a country club. He lost the team and did it in four years while Garrett took ten.
 

LatinMind

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Well, it's a fact that Garrett ran the Offense and had complete control of that. It's a fact that Phillips could not fire Garrett so what control do you think Phillips might have had over Garrett?
Its ironic how everything has gone full circle and JG is experiencing what Phillips dealt with. Only difference is JG is being forced to go down with the ship. The guys name is being drug through the mud right now.
 

Kaiser

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It's a fact that Phillips could not fire Garrett so what control do you think Phillips might have had over Garrett?

How is that a fact? Being the heir apparent and the Golden Boy doesn't mean you can be an incompetent backstabber that drags the team down to a 1-7 record without consequences. Especially one that nobody but Jason Hatcher and Jesse Holley notice.
 

Stash

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Well that’s the thing. The defense is what gave up. His unit completely gave up on him. The one unit that should’ve still been at least decent got torched by David Garrard.

I was looking atht that 2010 roster. All of the player talent was on offense. Even the 1st round pick was used on Dez.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Its ironic how everything has gone full circle and JG is experiencing what Phillips dealt with. Only difference is JG is being forced to go down with the ship. The guys name is being drug through the mud right now.

I agree.
 

LatinMind

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Sure, it wasn't a joke and the nickname was a media exaggeration. But he was known as being too easy, even if it wasn't a country club. He lost the team and did it in four years while Garrett took ten.
Think he was losing the team in 2013, but Jerry put it down and took control of the team because up until then JG was doing it his way. With the pass heavy offense. Jerry took play calling from him and they started running Murray. Jerry saved JG from himself, and that IMO is the only reason JG stayed as coach.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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How is that a fact? Being the heir apparent and the Golden Boy doesn't mean you can be an incompetent backstabber that drags the team down to a 1-7 record without consequences. Especially one that nobody but Jason Hatcher and Jesse Holley notice.

Because we were told by Jerry that Garrett had control over the Offense and Wade ran the Defense. As to not being able to fire Garrett, do you need proof of that statement as well? You think Phillips could have fired Garrett? You believe that?
 

Kaiser

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Because we were told by Jerry that Garrett had control over the Offense and Wade ran the Defense. As to not being able to fire Garrett, do you need proof of that statement as well? You think Phillips could have fired Garrett? You believe that?

I do. I've watched every game since the 80's and I don't buy that Wade was HC in name only. Even if he was, you are assuming that Jerry is so oblivious he didn't see this and wouldn't have listened to Wade when he was told of it. It also assumes Wade didn't know it or knew it and didn't go to Jerry with it.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I do. I've watched every game since the 80's and I don't buy that Wade was HC in name only. Even if he was, you are assuming that Jerry is so oblivious he didn't see this and wouldn't have listened to Wade when he was told of it. It also assumes Wade didn't know it or knew it and didn't go to Jerry with it.

Augh..... no. I'm saying just the opposite. Are you reading my posts at all? I clearly said that I believe Jerry knew. Jerry was complicit and he did nothing. I am saying that this was the plan all along. I believe Wade knew, Wade told Jerry and Jerry did nothing because the plan was always to have Garrett take over the job. I mean, why else do you hire a guy like Garrett with no experience at all and pay him that kind of money if you don't intend to make him the HC?
 

Kaiser

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Augh..... no. I'm saying just the opposite. Are you reading my posts at all? I clearly said that I believe Jerry knew. Jerry was complicit and he did nothing. I am saying that this was the plan all along. I believe Wade knew, Wade told Jerry and Jerry did nothing because the plan was always to have Garrett take over the job. I mean, why else do you hire a guy like Garrett with no experience at all and pay him that kind of money if you don't intend to make him the HC?

You hire Garrett because he is a bright guy that will end up winning NFL Coach of the Year one day but you make him OC because A) that's his strength and B) he needs NFL experience.

This setup/sabotage idea assumes Jerry was willing to have a 1-7 record just to get rid of a HC he could fire at any time for any reason, but he let the team lose. Jerry has a lot of faults, but for every minute he has been the Dallas owner he put everything he had into winning. It may have not worked in stretches but there is absolutely nothing to support the idea he would allow a losing season just to get rid of a HC, when he had fired plenty of them before he ever met Wade. Including two of the three who had the job prior to Wade.
 

Bob-Lillys-War

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Garrett's sabotage is well documented ,
Must have been that Jerry decided to censor this in the media.

The 'reporters' don't have the guts to print the truth; they are more like trained transcriptionists.
 

Kaiser

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Garrett's sabotage is well documented ,
Must have been that Jerry decided to censor this in the media.

Its well documented, except that no one documented it.

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ABQCOWBOY

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You hire Garrett because he is a bright guy that will end up winning NFL Coach of the Year one day but you make him OC because A) that's his strength and B) he needs NFL experience.

This setup/sabotage idea assumes Jerry was willing to have a 1-7 record just to get rid of a HC he could fire at any time for any reason, but he let the team lose. Jerry has a lot of faults, but for every minute he has been the Dallas owner he put everything he had into winning. It may have not worked in stretches but there is absolutely nothing to support the idea he would allow a losing season just to get rid of a HC, when he had fired plenty of them before he ever met Wade. Including two of the three who had the job prior to Wade.

So if you were running a team, as a GM, and you have enough talent to win a championship, you hire an OC with no experience, two years of coaching experience as a Quality Control Coach and QB Coach with the Miami Dolphins who, BTW, went 9-7 in 2015, ranked 15th Offensively, 6-10 in 2016, 29th in the league in Offense, you would hire that guy as your OC? Where does the whole, "That's his strenght" thing come from and further, while I agree he needs experience, don't you think that he needs to learn how to become a QB coach before he learns how to become an OC? I mean, seriously, he had one year of QB Coach experience where his team had a terrible record and his Offense was bottom 5. Where does the idea that he was such a great offensive coach come from? Is that who you hire if you are running the show?
 

Kaiser

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So if you were running a team, as a GM, and you have enough talent to win a championship, you hire an OC with no experience, two years of coaching experience as a Quality Control Coach and QB Coach with the Miami Dolphins who, BTW, went 9-7 in 2015, ranked 15th Offensively, 6-10 in 2016, 29th in the league in Offense, you would hire that guy as your OC? Where does the whole, "That's his strenght" thing come from and further, while I agree he needs experience, don't you think that he needs to learn how to become a QB coach before he learns how to become an OC? I mean, seriously, he had one year of QB Coach experience where his team had a terrible record and his Offense was bottom 5. Where does the idea that he was such a great offensive coach come from? Is that who you hire if you are running the show?

Garrett had two years as QB coach, not one. Kellen Moore had even less, one year as a QB coach and Dallas has the second rated offense in the NFL.

And Garrett has a winning record as a HC and a Coach of the Year award, so he didn't fall on his face moving up the ladder.
 

Flamma

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I don't risk a turnover there. I kick.

You're not alone. I just remember that playoff shootout between the Rams and the Panthers way back when. They didn't want to risk a turnover either and kept missing FGs. Me personally, I exhaust all options before going to a bum kicker. I don't pass up the opportunity to get a TD from the 2 yard line so readily.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Garrett had two years as QB coach, not one. Kellen Moore had even less, one year as a QB coach and Dallas has the second rated offense in the NFL.

And Garrett has a winning record as a HC and a Coach of the Year award, so he didn't fall on his face moving up the ladder.

No, I know that's what is reported but he was not. He was QC Coach his first year and QB Coach his second. But lets say that he was the QB coach for two years, because I don't really want to get involved in that discussion, his record and experience in Coaching is still not what I would consider a confirmation of a great Offensive mind. I mean, even if you are saying that he was a good QC Coach, which I don't believe there is proof of, that doesn't translate into being a great Offensive mind. If you wanted to say that he knows about how to develop a QB, OK. I don't believe there is proof of that either but OK, at least he had some NFL experience there. How do you come to the conclusion that he was a great Offensive mind or whatever the terminology you want to use suggests? Do you hire that guy as your OC if you are the GM?

I don't hate Garrett, he's a Cowboy so that says something with me and believe it or not, I still believe he can develop into a good NFL Head Coach but I don't think he can be that until he moves on and he has the authority to learn and develop using his own calls. Making all the calls that a HC normally has to. I think we can all agree that this is not the situation in Dallas, do we both agree on this? I think he has to be able to develop further and he's only going to get that opportunity with another team. That's just my opinion.
 

Iago33

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The reality is Jason Garrett’s was the Jones planned Chosen One from the beginning and Wade was hamstrung completely.

The irony is after 2012-2014 season, with the new Romo contract, Jones had to tighten the least around the buffoon and effectively start stripping him if power, until 2014 came and he said he didn’t want Garrett anywhere near the offense. In this light, he said multiple things that Linehan would Target Dez like a true number 1 and run the ball, despite the lip service of the previous ‘coaches’.

So now Jones is about keeping Garrett as HC yo protect his decisions, but surround him with quality coordinators. But even that is failing now and fans are done with Garrett, so Jones gets triggered in interviews now when he’s confronted with Jason Garrett’s incompetence by the majority.
Can we agree that Jerry sabotaged Wade and just move on? Garrett is on his way out and needs to be. The structure above him is still a problem, though.
 

G2

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You're not alone. I just remember that playoff shootout between the Rams and the Panthers way back when. They didn't want to risk a turnover either and kept missing FGs. Me personally, I exhaust all options before going to a bum kicker. I don't pass up the opportunity to get a TD from the 2 yard line so readily.
Sounds like Garretts entire coaching career.
 
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