The first requirement of the HC of the DC

LatinMind

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The skillsets of our skilled players in the red zone suck. Nobody can go up and get a ball especially our tes who are checkdowners only with no racs. But we continue to play them as if they could. But they never do
You have a QB who can throw and run in the endzone and has shown it his whole career.
You have a RB who just runs over people and can hit the edge, has shown it his whole career
You have the biggestm strongest OL in the nfl
Add in a TE who trives in the redzone, and is basically another OL blocker in the redzone
You have a #1 wr who destroys DBs on back shoulder td receptions

Witten has made a career catching TDs in the redzone. I dont think you understood what i said.
 

CouchCoach

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The other element to this is the availability of other coaches and the history of the HC selected. Does he have his network or is he like Kingsbury and they have to hire his coaches for him?

I think the coaches presently on the staff are going to be a large part of the interview process. I do not know their contracts but I am assuming since they just hired Kitna and promoted Moore, they're not on one year deals.
 

gjkoeppen

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Regardless of who the next HC of the Cowboys is, I believe there is one requirement that is not negotiable, Kellen Moore will be the OC.

The offense is ranked 1st in passing and total yards, 10th in rushing and 9th in total points. Think that's not bragging rights for the GM? I don't think he's letting Moore go.

Now, if this is true that he's part of the deal, which way would you lean if a new HC is selected, the offense or defense? What good does a guy like Riley or McCarthy do when the offense doesn't seem to be the problem?

Wanna see something else crazy? They're 8th in total D and 12th in scoring D.

How in the hell is this team 6-7 and don't lay that all on Garrett, that's ridiculous. Stat wise, this might be the best 6-7 team in NFL history. I've looked at lot of stats and not ever seen anything like that.

And I don't know where they rank now but several weeks back, they were the best 3rd down team on both sides of the ball, none of this makes sense.

So, instead of starting another thread, I'd like to discuss what you think is wrong with this team. If I were to show you those stats, without you knowing the record of that team, what would you guess? 6-7? Those are the stats of a 10 win team so far into the season.

So, my grab bag thread is about keeping Moore, O or D guy for HC and what's wrong with this team? Take you pick or go gonzo for all three, poster's choice.

I would really like to see some well thought out theories on how a team can look like that in the stats and have that record. There are some talking heads that have been following this game for many years and they can't explain it.

I saw Dave Wannstedt say something this morning that makes sense. The 31 year old OC Moore has the Cowboys playing good in most games in the first half but when facing experienced head coach who make changes at half time, Moore doesn't seem to make any or the right changes at half time. As Wannstedt said this comes from inexperience. My question is how long do the Cowboys go with that inexperience to make good changes at half time.

There have been offensive minded coaches that bring in really good defensive minded DC that turn the defense around or improves the defense. So I don't see the need to have to hire a defensive minded head coach. If the Cowboys brought in McCarthy and he hires a really good DC it would do the same thing. I seriously doubt that Jones will gamble that any college coach will come in and do what Johnson did since that was the last time a college coach as a 1st time NFL head coach won a Super Bowl. Those coaches have a dismal record of failing with their first team.
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gjkoeppen

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You have a QB who can throw and run in the endzone and has shown it his whole career.
You have a RB who just runs over people and can hit the edge, has shown it his whole career
You have the biggestm strongest OL in the nfl
Add in a TE who trives in the redzone, and is basically another OL blocker in the redzone
You have a #1 wr who destroys DBs on back shoulder td receptions

Witten has made a career catching TDs in the redzone. I dont think you understood what i said.

Some of what you said isn't true at least this season.

Elliott hasn't shown the same quickness and has a lot fewer successful runs to the edge. Elliott all to often this season runs straight into a pile of linemen unlike in past season of making a cut and running past the pile.
The offensive line hasn't been anywhere as good as it has in the past and nowhere close to the 2016 line.
I've always really like Witten but this season he has only 3 TD's and has never been known as a big TD threat. His forte has been moving the sticks getting 1st downs. In 2013 he had 8TD's and 2010 he had 9TD's but other than that he's had years of 3, 5 or 6 TYD's and that just not a TD machine.
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LatinMind

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Some of what you said isn't true at least this season.

Elliott hasn't shown the same quickness and has a LT fewer successful runs to the edge. Elliott all to often this season runs styraight into a pile of linemen unlike in past season of making a cut and running past the pile.
The offensive line hasn't been anywhere as good as it has in the past and nowhere close to the 2016 line.
I've always really like Witten but this season he has only 3 TD's and has never been known as a big TD threat. His forte has been moving the sticks getting 1st downs. In 2013 he had 8TD's and 2010 he had 9TD's but other than that he's had years of 3, 5 or 6 TYD's and that just not a TD machine.
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Well maybe start recognizing what their doing before posting about something you dont seem to know about.

The OL is running a zone blocking scheme thats putting more emphasis a area to block instead of attacking. And the defenses know this and are plugging lanes and using their LBers to flow to the ball.

Most if Wittens TDs have been redzone targets.

This is what i mean by fans not knowing their teams.

My post that YOU replied to was not about YAC or TDs over a career. It was Moore's lack of a redzone understanding. An understanding of the strengths of the players in the redzone.

 

CouchCoach

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I saw Dave Wannstedt say something this morning that makes sense. The 31 year old OC Moore has the Cowboys playing good in most games in the first half but when facing experienced head coach who make changes at half time, Moore doesn't seem to make any or the right changes at half time. As Wannstedt said this comes from inexperience. My question is how long do the Cowboys go with that inexperience to make good changes at half time.

There have been offensive minded coaches that bring in really good defensive minded DC that turn the defense around or improves the defense. So I don't see the need to have to hire a defensive minded head coach. If the Cowboys brought in McCarthy and he hires a really good DC it would do the same thing. I seriously doubt that Jones will gamble that any college coach will come in and do what Johnson did since that was the last time a college coach as a 1st time NFL head coach won a Super Bowl. Those coaches have a dismal record of failing with their first team.
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Where is this really good DC?
 

Colombiacowboy

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Kitna has more value than Moore in my opinion. The offense still struggles in the red zone.

If the Cowboys want real change, the whole thing needs to be blown up.
 

gjkoeppen

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Where is this really good DC?

I'm not sure what DC contracts are up after the season but 49er's, bills, steelers, ravens, rams have good defenses. I would leave the decision on the DC to the new head coach and not us fans.
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cern

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I think Stephen will move quickly. Garrett will be gone the day after season's end. Announcement of new hc to follow quickly. New coach will have authority to bring in his own staff but will be encouraged to interview Moore in a setting where he can answer questions honestly. Jerry will act as if everything that transpires was of his own doing.
 

xwalker

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Regardless of who the next HC of the Cowboys is, I believe there is one requirement that is not negotiable, Kellen Moore will be the OC.

The offense is ranked 1st in passing and total yards, 10th in rushing and 9th in total points. Think that's not bragging rights for the GM? I don't think he's letting Moore go.

Now, if this is true that he's part of the deal, which way would you lean if a new HC is selected, the offense or defense? What good does a guy like Riley or McCarthy do when the offense doesn't seem to be the problem?

Wanna see something else crazy? They're 8th in total D and 12th in scoring D.

How in the hell is this team 6-7 and don't lay that all on Garrett, that's ridiculous. Stat wise, this might be the best 6-7 team in NFL history. I've looked at lot of stats and not ever seen anything like that.

And I don't know where they rank now but several weeks back, they were the best 3rd down team on both sides of the ball, none of this makes sense.

So, instead of starting another thread, I'd like to discuss what you think is wrong with this team. If I were to show you those stats, without you knowing the record of that team, what would you guess? 6-7? Those are the stats of a 10 win team so far into the season.

So, my grab bag thread is about keeping Moore, O or D guy for HC and what's wrong with this team? Take you pick or go gonzo for all three, poster's choice.

I would really like to see some well thought out theories on how a team can look like that in the stats and have that record. There are some talking heads that have been following this game for many years and they can't explain it.
Did I mention the first requirement of fight club is that you don't talk about fight club...
 

gjkoeppen

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I think Stephen will move quickly. Garrett will be gone the day after season's end. Announcement of new hc to follow quickly. New coach will have authority to bring in his own staff but will be encouraged to interview Moore in a setting where he can answer questions honestly. Jerry will act as if everything that transpires was of his own doing.

I agree that the day after the Cowboys season ends the Cowboys will tell Garrett they will not be offering him a new contract. I disagree that Stephen or Jerry will make any announcement any time soon after that if for no other reason a coach they may be interested in talking to may be with a team that is in the playoffs and/or still under contract. Unlike many here who think Meyers will be the next coach because one time he said that the Cowboys coaching job would be the only NFL job that would get him to at least consider, which is a long ways from some here who keep saying he wants the job. Saying he would consider it is not saying he wants it. Anyways I doubt that Jerry will try the college coach as 1st time NFL head coach again since Johnson was the last time that type of coach won a Super Bowl with his 1st team. The long and the short of it is we all will have to wait and see what actually happens.
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CowboysExchange

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You have a QB who can throw and run in the endzone and has shown it his whole career.
You have a RB who just runs over people and can hit the edge, has shown it his whole career
You have the biggestm strongest OL in the nfl
Add in a TE who trives in the redzone, and is basically another OL blocker in the redzone
You have a #1 wr who destroys DBs on back shoulder td receptions

Witten has made a career catching TDs in the redzone. I dont think you understood what i said.
yeah Jerry thought Witten and Escobar could lead us to the Superbowl and we got behind by like 21 against Detroit and if Matt stafford mr choke had not fumbled 2 snaps in a row and the clear no call PI that wasnt called we woulda only had only 1 playoff in 25 yrs. Lol.

These tes cant even block at the playoff level these days and they go awol when the game is on the line. The only time they score is in blowout games usually against our division scrubs. 1 playoff td in a 16 year career for #82. Jerry is going to try to win with this dual te passing offense which is like trying to win at chess with 2 pawns. This scheme sucks and has a 10 yr history of bad te core stats but they are dominating passing snaps even though most of the time the defense isnt covering these scrubs just using the Safety to contain them. Witten and Jarwin arent the Answer bro. Neither possess winning playoff traits because they cant go up and get a ball. Lol.
 

wrongway

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I agree with this. For a 30 year old first time OC with Garrett on his back Moore has done a good job. I think he has good rapport with Dak as well. I would be in favor. EVERYONE else must go.
What new coach wouldnt want his own staff. Probably not one I would want.
 

nightrain

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Regardless of who the next HC of the Cowboys is, I believe there is one requirement that is not negotiable, Kellen Moore will be the OC.

The offense is ranked 1st in passing and total yards, 10th in rushing and 9th in total points. Think that's not bragging rights for the GM? I don't think he's letting Moore go.

Now, if this is true that he's part of the deal, which way would you lean if a new HC is selected, the offense or defense? What good does a guy like Riley or McCarthy do when the offense doesn't seem to be the problem?

Wanna see something else crazy? They're 8th in total D and 12th in scoring D.

How in the hell is this team 6-7 and don't lay that all on Garrett, that's ridiculous. Stat wise, this might be the best 6-7 team in NFL history. I've looked at lot of stats and not ever seen anything like that.

And I don't know where they rank now but several weeks back, they were the best 3rd down team on both sides of the ball, none of this makes sense.

So, instead of starting another thread, I'd like to discuss what you think is wrong with this team. If I were to show you those stats, without you knowing the record of that team, what would you guess? 6-7? Those are the stats of a 10 win team so far into the season.

So, my grab bag thread is about keeping Moore, O or D guy for HC and what's wrong with this team? Take you pick or go gonzo for all three, poster's choice.

I would really like to see some well thought out theories on how a team can look like that in the stats and have that record. There are some talking heads that have been following this game for many years and they can't explain it.
The offense has little imagination and offers little misdirection or creation of mismatches. I know that is mostly on Garrett, but can Moore create and implement a new scheme for 2020?
 

conner01

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I have no problem keeping Moore and kitna if new HC wants them
He should build his own staff
 

DuncanIso

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I think Stephen will move quickly. Garrett will be gone the day after season's end. Announcement of new hc to follow quickly. New coach will have authority to bring in his own staff but will be encouraged to interview Moore in a setting where he can answer questions honestly. Jerry will act as if everything that transpires was of his own doing.

I don’t see Jerry firing any of these coaches :

KMoore
Kitna
Nuszmeir
Brown

Columbo
KRichard

these are excellent coaches.
 

Whyjerry

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What new coach wouldnt want his own staff. Probably not one I would want.

I agree with you but I would say there would be value to keeping Moore unless the new coach had someone much better. Again, I agree but I bet Moore and Kitna will get good looks.
 

CowboysExchange

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When your starting te goes 9 games without scoring hes not a Big Red zone threat. He is a good person and he was a good te but hes NOT ANYMORE!

These players have scoring averages and that should determine their involvement. How could you play #82 over any other skilled player. If Garrett had Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell he still wouldnt integrate the 2 rbs. Jerrah and Jason are gonna beat this dual te passing formation to death. And its a losing TRADITION. IF WE HAD 4 RANDY MOSS' WE'D STILL BE USING THESE SCRUB TES ON EVERY PASSING PLAY.

I havent watched a full game all year. Its the same trash never changing scheme for a decade. Throw #82 200 passes and he would still only score when the defender falls down. That catch yesterday was his best catch in 10 years. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion.
 
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