West Coast Offense?

So I have heard this mentioned several times by McCarthy.

I have watched the Packers bounce us out of the playoffs twice with it.

So what do you guys think about that aspect of the changing offense?

How does Dak fit that or will he struggle by having been in Linehan/Moore schemes?

Is it going to be obvious or a subtle change coming.?

We were lead to believe Moore had this profound change after Linehan was gone.

But I never saw much except we fell behind too often and had to throw to have any chance to stay in games.

Dak looked better but it was not due to design..it was due to have to.

So now West Coast?

Is this going to change anything?

Forum..check in.

Differing opinions welcome.

I think there will be strong elements of WCO just as it is with Andy Reid in KC who is also from the WCO tree but not the pure WCO of Bill Walsh. WCO relies a lot of short high percentage passing and getting the ball out to RB with swing passes and I'm sure we will see this but I also think we will see good production out of the run game as Reid has in KC

A good coach (and, maybe one that has been fired and had to re-learn a few things) should know that, even if my philosophy is different than the last guy, I still use elements of what was working and ADAPT (something that it seemed Garrett and Marinelli NEVER did) them to my way of things. With the news that MM wants Kellen to stay on as OC, I must say I like how this can play out. First, as erratic as he may haves been in his first year, Kellen STILL oversaw an offense that OBLITERATED the Team Record for Total Yards and YPG. Now, he gets to learn even more ways to do his thing from a guy that runs his offense from an entirely different perspective.

I’ve long been a guy that wanted to see how Dak would look running a offense with WCO principles and philosophies. Seems like a lot of the more mobile guys (Wilson, McNabb, Mahomes, Jackson, Vick, etc...) seems to do well in this offensive system versus your more traditional pocket QB-heavy system like the Air Coryell. The Air Coryell ALWAYS succeeds better with a supremely accurate pocket passer. The WCO hasn’t always required pinpoint accuracy from guys.

Dak would do well in WCO

Offenses have become hybrids, just as defenses have. There are elements of the WCO in every offense but the one misunderstanding about it that many people have is that it's a passing offense. It is not, they still want to run the ball. Reid took it in the passing direction because that's what he wanted but Walsh was always about running the ball. He just used the pass to do that because all D's back then were set up to stop the run first.

He had great RB's in Craig and Watters and if Reid hadn't been more stubborn and used Westbrook more in the run game, he might have gotten his ring in PHL.

Doomsday101 said:

I think there will be strong elements of WCO just as it is with Andy Reid in KC who is also from the WCO tree but not the pure WCO of Bill Walsh. WCO relies a lot of short high percentage passing and getting the ball out to RB with swing passes and I'm sure we will see this but I also think we will see good production out of the run game as Reid has in KC

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Agreed. I think we'll see a lot more of the screen/short passing game as a compliment to the run game.

That means fewer rushing attempts, specifically, but it should have the same impact.

Future said:

Agreed. I think we'll see a lot more of the screen/short passing game as a compliment to the run game.

That means fewer rushing attempts, specifically, but it should have the same impact.

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Maybe fewer runs but Zeke may get as many touches between run and pass.

Doomsday101 said:

Maybe fewer runs but Zeke may get as many touches between run and pass.

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Yep. Zeke and Pollard both, I think.

Dak likes to dink and dunk, so it should be a good fit.

I saw the interview with McCarthy and King where he talked about RPO plays and I could see McCarthy implementing RPO plays within his offense

I have no issue with using the WCO with added wrinkles. In reality, I'm ok with whatever we choose to do as long we dont totally abandon the run game which is something weve seen is a detriment to this team. Zeke has shown hes durable enough to carry the ball alot and I think hes our best offensive weapon assuming our o-line stays healthy.

I will say that assuming we use alot of short passing routes under McCarthy, Dak needs to quickly figure out how to lead slant passes much better then he has. I'm not trying to put it all on him but he does need to lead these receivers so they can turn these short passes into long gains.

erod said:

Dak likes to dink and dunk, so it should be a good fit.

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Is that what you think WCO is?

rocyaice said:

Is that what you think WCO is?

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I know exactly what it is. Bill Walsh was its founder.

It's a passing offense designed to work like a run offense with lots of short swing passes and slants mixed in with the run game. It's designed to set up occasional deeper throws, but stays mostly within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.

McCarthy is more of a run guy by preference. I don't think this will be a WCO in the end.

Does a west coast offense require talent from it's QB? Asking for a friend.

Redball Express said:

So I have heard this mentioned several times by McCarthy.

I have watched the Packers bounce us out of the playoffs twice with it.

So what do you guys think about that aspect of the changing offense?

How does Dak fit that or will he struggle by having been in Linehan/Moore schemes?

Is it going to be obvious or a subtle change coming.?

We were lead to believe Moore had this profound change after Linehan was gone.

But I never saw much except we fell behind too often and had to throw to have any chance to stay in games.

Dak looked better but it was not due to design..it was due to have to.

So now West Coast?

Is this going to change anything?

Forum..check in.

Differing opinions welcome.

Click to expand...

probably one of your best post ever.
M is being brought in because this team is building around Dak.
If we are going to invest in Dak, we need to accentuate his skillset.
WCO is perfect fit.

cowboy_ron said:

Dak would do well in WCO

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I disagree horizontal routes he does not get the ball out on time, his guys are always stopping or making difficult catches because the ball is not where it needs to be.

erod said:

Dak likes to dink and dunk, so it should be a good fit.

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As long as they don’t run a lot of crossing routes where Dak has a tendency to throw high or behind the WRs.

cowboy_ron said:

Dak would do well in WCO

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I kind of disagree and hear me out--
I know I'm known as a Dak critic (hater, to some) and I don't necessarily deny that I'm not high on him.

But--objectively--and taking any preconceived notions/feelings out of it--when I watch Dak play the position, it seems to me that some of the throws he struggles with the most are those quick crosses and slants (often times, the ball seems to arrive late/off target/behind, either resulting in a really difficult catch without YAC for the receiver, or the play just being off altogether.)

Not saying he *always* misses these throws, but it seems to me that these types of timing/location throws that go quick are some of the throws that he seems to struggle the worst with.

Exactly the type of throws needed to be a top tier WCO quarterback.

To me--Dak's best strength is when he extends plays by his legs and kind of almost improvises on the go with something that opens up downfield.
I'm still not high on him in any circumstance but this seems to be maybe what he's best at.

I may be proven wrong (and I hope I will be) but if we install WCO type offense I could see it being really tough to watch unless Dak dramatically improves his timing and location on some of the throws needed, and he hasn't shown enough of that over 4 years imo.

thoughts?

West Coast is schematically superior to anything we were doing before and is also similar to the brain dead offense that Reid/Nagy/Pederson runs.

Prepare for all throws to be behind the line of scrimmage and for Dak to pad stats with a 1 yard pass that gets taken to the house for 80. I love this offense and it is very QB friendly.

Risen Star said:

Does a west coast offense require talent from it's QB? Asking for a friend.

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It requires receivers and running backs who can catch and everybody having their head in the game.

Andy Reid runs it. He's from Mike Holmgren's coaching tree. (Holmgren 1-1 in Super Bowls with it and gunslinger Brett Favre)
Doug Pedersen runs it (1 Super Bowl).
John Gruden runs it (1 Super Bowl).

Paul Hackett was an assistant coach under Bill Walsh who coached QBs and receivers. Hackett brought his version of Walsh's offense to the Dallas Cowboys from 1986-1988. Between 1993 and 1997 Hackett was Offensive coordinator and McCarthy was Quality control and then QB coach for the KC Chiefs. McCarthy learned his version of the Walsh's offense from Paul Hackett.

Better back it up a bit after reading the article where Mike says he learned if from Paul Hackett in 1989. Both were at Pittsburgh that year so Mike first learned the system there.

(Clarifies the year and Mike's initial introduction on where he learned his version of the WCO.)