DT Player Measurables

camaro69 · Jan 8, 2020

scottsp said:
Fire hydrants are nice, but interior push against passers is the need here. Height/weight specs tell us only so much, though bigger is usually better when it comes to these guys. That being the case, not all big boys play with the same power/push.

I wouldn't dare say a 330-lb. road block is a bad thing, because they have their place in a rotation. But I love a 295-pound who's quick off the ball and can generate a fair amount of face pressure per snap. Watching QBs routinely climb the pocket with little concern gets old.

Not that Aaron Donald will just fall out of the sky or anything. I just think a discussion about bulk vs. power is interesting because it isn't all the same. Then again, having all of one thing and none of the other isn't serving us well - if that makes sense

True, Just because a guy is 320lb doesn't mean he's a baller. I personal don't like any of our DT there jags. rejects from other teams. I hope we double up on Dt in the draft guys like Javon Kinlaw, Marvin Wilson , Tedarrell Slatan, Jordon Elliott, Leki Fotu, Any combo would be fine with me

Fredbeard · Jan 8, 2020

Future said:
This logic is so funny to me.

Not from you, necessarily, but how many folks on this board have complained about the run D because of the Rams playoff game? Tennesee just killed the Patriots on the ground, with no passing game, and guess who was sitting there in the middle all day. Danny Shelton.

Pure run-stopping DTs don't matter in the NFL. They just don't.

Didnt you have the cowboys drafting loki
Futo in your mock draft?

Future · Jan 8, 2020

Fredbeard said:
Didnt you have the cowboys drafting loki
Futo in your mock draft?

Yes. Because I think he's the best value at that spot.

I don't think he single-handedly solves anything, and I think he's athletic enough to be more than just a run stuffer.

CapnB · Jan 8, 2020

People are just enamored with the thought of having a huge 350 pound DT... And its not that we dont need someone like that.. But the thing is.. you have to be actually good. And it might not be as hard as finding a QB... but those big guys dont grow on trees.. well if they did they would break the tree.. but you see what im saying.

Fredbeard · Jan 8, 2020

LatinMind said:
Ill remind all of you, Dallas ran a 3-4 defense with a guy playing NT that was under 300, Glover. Ill take DTs that play with good technique and know how to use their hands over a 340lb slob every time

Didn't you have the cowboys signing DJ reader
In your mock draft

Ekspozed · Jan 8, 2020

OmerV said:
Not every strong defense has a 340+ lb type guy in the middle, especially in a 4-3 scheme. The Bears, 49ers and Vikings, for example, were among the better defenses in the NFL and they don't rely on that kind of player.

Don't get me wrong, I understand there can be a benefit with a player like that - if he has real talent and isn't just big - but it would be off base to say we can't succeed if we don't get that kind of guy.

Bears have Hicks and Goldman which are big dudes. Their ends also listed at 300 each. Ravens have BIG dts. Bills.
Big guys can also get push in the middle.

Though, a better scheme in general where the dts aren't stunting every down, and adding in more than 5 blitzes a game will also do wonder for the run and pass defense.

There are special players like Donald and the rookie the bills got that are smaller and still strong enough and good enough to demand and occupy double teams, just like there are guys that are 340 that are too slow and stiff and can still get ran around or moved.

Look for a player not a body type.

LatinMind · Jan 8, 2020

Fredbeard said:
Didn't you have the cowboys signing DJ reader
In your mock draft

hes not 340 and def isnt sloppy.

Fredbeard · Jan 8, 2020

CapnB said:
People are just enamored with the thought of having a huge 350 pound DT... And its not that we dont need someone like that.. But the thing is.. you have to be actually good. And it might not be as hard as finding a QB... but those big guys dont grow on trees.. well if they did they would break the tree.. but you see what im saying.

That's very true. I favor talent over size too.
I just hope the cowboys draft a dt or two in the early rounds. No more utilizing and hyping practice squad jags

Vintage · Jan 8, 2020

Future said:
Every LBer does. Doesn't mean it's the best way to build a defense.

And Ray Lewis didn't play in this league. Pass rush is 4000x more important than stopping the run.

No, no, no..... being fat in the middle of the defense is what matters.

camaro69 · Jan 8, 2020

CapnB said:
People are just enamored with the thought of having a huge 350 pound DT... And its not that we dont need someone like that.. But the thing is.. you have to be actually good. And it might not be as hard as finding a QB... but those big guys dont grow on trees.. well if they did they would break the tree.. but you see what im saying.

There was a big fat guy at Walmart he had to be around 350lb he had nacho cheese stains on his shirt maybe it was mustard. Let’s put him in at DT . I mean if that’s all it take. How bout we start with size and talent and see how that works first. 315+lbs and he actually has some pass rush capability

CowboysFaninHouston · Jan 8, 2020

JeffInDC said:
Folks, I know we're knee deep into the new Coaching Staff hires and whether we like them or not, but I decided to take a slight detour for a second. The discussion about the "Big DT's" got me wondering what is everyone's desired size/weight/arm length/etc. for a Big DT. For me, as much as I love the Ted Washington's of the past (the GIANT 6'5", 350+ guy), I prefer the shorter, squatty Casey Hampton/Gilbert Brown-type (6'1"-6'2", 325+ PREFERABLY with at least 32" arm length). Why? I was always told that when it comes to line play, low man usually wins. Just seems like the shorter guys never have as many leverage issues as the taller guys. Just my 2 cents. Skewer away...…………………….

I just want a good one....none of the others matter. aaron Donald is 6'1" and 284 and probably the best DT in the league....

jterrell · Jan 8, 2020

If you want to get a heavy 1T in I am not against it but if you tell me grabbing an upgrade to Ant Woods is the team's biggest need I am going to question your knowledge of football.

Adding a bigger guy who can play in rotation with Woods seems ideal, unless they feel Hill is that guy.
TC likely goes back to starting at DE with Quinn gone which hurts pass rush but REALLY helps run stuff.

This team definitely need an upgrade at DT but ideally an elite athlete who can do more than play just 1T.
Javon Kinlaw gets mocked to DAL a lot and he is 6'6" and 310. He's a monster that gets compared to Leonard Williams.

JeffInDC · Jan 8, 2020

LatinMind said:
hes not 340 and def isnt sloppy.

Ummmm, I think Reader is VERY CLOSE to (if not over) 340. He's a big, powerful dude.

buybuydandavis · Jan 8, 2020

USArmyVet said:
Dallas Cowboys DT's:

Maliek Collins 6' 2" 308 pounds
Antwaun Woods 6' 1" 318 pounds
Trysten Hill 6' 3" 308 pounds
Daniel Ross 6' 3" 305 pounds
Tyrone Crawford 6' 4" 290 pounds

With Woods and Collins, we already had quietly gotten bigger at DT. And better.

But looking at the list, Collins is a free agent, Hill has shown nothing, Ross recently got arrested for pot, and Crawford missed the season with injury, and probably should have been a cap casualty besides.

Woods matters. He was hurt a lot last year. Missed 6 games. We were 6-4 when he played, 2-4 when he didn't.

Beyond Woods, we've got nothing we can count on at DT.

Sully · Jan 8, 2020

Under Mike Holmgrem/Mike McCarthy combo, they had BIG NT ( Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (aka; KGB) and BJ Raji). So I would think that McCarthy would get a mountain the anchor the middle. The stop the rush up the middle that hurt the Dallas defense. When teams ran sweeps, they average less than 4 yard/rush but when teams run up the middle...over 6 yrd/rush/
The mountain in the middle would lower than PLUS allow the LBs to make MORE plays

Kaiser · Jan 8, 2020

Sully said:
Under Mike Holmgrem/Mike McCarthy combo, they had BIG NT ( Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (aka; KGB) and BJ Raji).

KGB was a DE that weighed 250.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jan 8, 2020

Future said:
"Sit down on comboes" means "Not rushing the passer"

Sure they can help keep LBs clean, it just doesn't matter.

No, it doesn't. It's called making a read and when you read 2 OL coming at you, you have the technique and ability to sit down on it. There are other reads such as it being a pass with a single block. Emphasis varies by down and distance.

And a DT getting blown off the ball ruins gap assignments. It's hard to flow to your gap when the DL is coming back at you. It means your S better make a tackle or you have serious problems.

it may not matter to you but that just makes you foolish.

It's a big man's league and talented big men make the most difference outside of QB.

Chuck 54 · Jan 8, 2020

The strength and football ability of the DT is far more important than weight. Some of the best DTs that we would kill for are small by comparison. The problem isn’t the type of DTs we have, but the quality. We don’t draft the great DTs high, at least not to this point.

If you don’t want to spend draft capital on a top, stud DT, then go for size and strength where you at least know the guy can give you one thing. When you continue trying to find a great, unblockable DT like Donald o the cheap, you end up with guys who are 50-50 at best to give you anything.

I want DTs that can beat the man in front and get off blocks to make plays at or behind the LOS. If I can’t find that or won’t spend the draft pick for it, then give me a big, powerful guy who can hold his ground vs run and push the pocket vs pass.

CowboyRoy · Jan 8, 2020

JeffInDC said:
Folks, I know we're knee deep into the new Coaching Staff hires and whether we like them or not, but I decided to take a slight detour for a second. The discussion about the "Big DT's" got me wondering what is everyone's desired size/weight/arm length/etc. for a Big DT. For me, as much as I love the Ted Washington's of the past (the GIANT 6'5", 350+ guy), I prefer the shorter, squatty Casey Hampton/Gilbert Brown-type (6'1"-6'2", 325+ PREFERABLY with at least 32" arm length). Why? I was always told that when it comes to line play, low man usually wins. Just seems like the shorter guys never have as many leverage issues as the taller guys. Just my 2 cents. Skewer away...…………………….

I could really care less the size, just want quality.

Future · Jan 8, 2020

FuzzyLumpkins said:
No, it doesn't. It's called making a read and when you read 2 OL coming at you, you have the technique and ability to sit down on it. There are other reads such as it being a pass with a single block. Emphasis varies by down and distance.

And a DT getting blown off the ball ruins gap assignments. It's hard to flow to your gap when the DL is coming back at you. It means your S better make a tackle or you have serious problems.

it may not matter to you but that just makes you foolish.

It's a big man's league and talented big men make the most difference outside of QB.

Making a read slows down pass rush.

Getting blown off the ball has little to do with size, and has nothing to do with an LB's ability to stack and shed.

It's not a big man's league, because it isn't the 1990s. The Saints, Colts, Pats and Packers of ~2005-15 should have slowed this conversation, and the rule changes should have put it to bed completely. Jason Garrett never got it, and it has killed this organization for a decade. It is a league where getting your skill players into space is how you win. You don't need big men to do that.

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