Lee and Witten gotta go

CowboyStar88

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Donovan Wilson will get his shot at starting at safety. THAT SAID, I see us drafting one early. its imperative we draft big nasty thugs to man the middle of the D. We been too soft for too long.

I hope we make a play for Adams
 

I need 6

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For the right price, I’d bring Lee back. Isn’t Thomas a FA too? You can’t lose both IMO.
Sean Lee is a scrub now. He needs to retire. Teams consistently targeted him in the running and passing games. At this point he is a mascot.
 

xwalker

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As much as we all love Lee and Witten, keeping them around may do more harm than good in the locker room. We need as many McCarthy guys that are able bodied.

I know Lee and Witten would probably be good soldiers but their bodies are limited in the production they could give if the defense is a 4-3/3-4 hybrid and if they’re using the TE more in pass routes than traditional in line TE.

Jerry and Stephen will hate it but time to clear out anyone from 2010 or earlier. Except LP. The long snapper shouldn’t cause problems.
Wrong.

Lee is worth keeping.

They had planed on him playing less than 30% of the snaps but LVE was injured.

I don't see a need to keep Witten but with Garrett gone he wouldn't play extensive snaps.
 

Parcells4Life

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Wrong.

Lee is worth keeping.

They had planed on him playing less than 30% of the snaps but LVE was injured.

I don't see a need to keep Witten but with Garrett gone he wouldn't play extensive snaps.
How productive was Lee during those 3-4 years? Didn’t it take a lot out of him physically
 

xwalker

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How productive was Lee during those 3-4 years? Didn’t it take a lot out of him physically
What 3 to 4 years?

LVE has been on the team 2 years.

Regardless, I'm referring to the plans for Lee going in to the 2019 season. They were going to play him at SLB & they only use a Strong Side LB on less than 30% of the snaps (Damian Wilson in 2018).

Bring back Witten for 2019 would have been OK if Garrett was NOT the Head Coach. We all knew Garrett would play Witten on too many snaps, but on a more limited basis Witten would have been really good.

The issue with Witten as compared to Lee is that they prefer to just carry 3 TEs on the roster vs 7 LBs (They carried 7 the majority of the seasons under Marinelli with his 4-3).

The 2nd TE generally needs to be a blocking TE but neither Witten (in 2019) or Jarwin were good blocking TEs (As compared to blocking TEs). Kellen Moore wanted to use Jarwin more but as always Garrett insisted on playing Witten too many snaps. That resulted in all all snaps going to Witten & Jarwin with the "blocking" TE barely playing. Schultz had become a good blocking TE by the end of the 2018 season (Swaim only played the first half of that season).

Even if they carried 4 TEs in 2020, it still wouldn't solve the issue with getting more snaps for the blocking TE unless Witten was relegated to just being the backup to Jarwin but NOT the "2nd TE". The 2nd TE would be a blocking TE.

Either way, the Cowboys need to draft a TE with a premium pick.
 

Daillest88

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Lee still plays well above average. Witten needs to retire man, Jarwin is ready!
 

Parcells4Life

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What 3 to 4 years?

LVE has been on the team 2 years.

Regardless, I'm referring to the plans for Lee going in to the 2019 season. They were going to play him at SLB & they only use a Strong Side LB on less than 30% of the snaps (Damian Wilson in 2018).

Bring back Witten for 2019 would have been OK if Garrett was NOT the Head Coach. We all knew Garrett would play Witten on too many snaps, but on a more limited basis Witten would have been really good.

The issue with Witten as compared to Lee is that they prefer to just carry 3 TEs on the roster vs 7 LBs (They carried 7 the majority of the seasons under Marinelli with his 4-3).

The 2nd TE generally needs to be a blocking TE but neither Witten (in 2019) or Jarwin were good blocking TEs (As compared to blocking TEs). Kellen Moore wanted to use Jarwin more but as always Garrett insisted on playing Witten too many snaps. That resulted in all all snaps going to Witten & Jarwin with the "blocking" TE barely playing. Schultz had become a good blocking TE by the end of the 2018 season (Swaim only played the first half of that season).

Even if they carried 4 TEs in 2020, it still wouldn't solve the issue with getting more snaps for the blocking TE unless Witten was relegated to just being the backup to Jarwin but NOT the "2nd TE". The 2nd TE would be a blocking TE.

Either way, the Cowboys need to draft a TE with a premium pick.
I meant when the team was in the 3-4 formation.
 

charron

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As much as we all love Lee and Witten, keeping them around may do more harm than good in the locker room. We need as many McCarthy guys that are able bodied.

I know Lee and Witten would probably be good soldiers but their bodies are limited in the production they could give if the defense is a 4-3/3-4 hybrid and if they’re using the TE more in pass routes than traditional in line TE.

Jerry and Stephen will hate it but time to clear out anyone from 2010 or earlier. Except LP. The long snapper shouldn’t cause problems.


How about we let the coaches decide who is better for what they want?
 

cowboyed

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I want Lee around, he stayed healthy last year and can still play limited. If Witten would play limited snaps I would keep him. With a new HC if he stays then Witten won’t be able to pull himself in and out of the game. Jarwin needs a lot more snaps. Schultz never saw the field. We may have a couple good TE and not even know it. Lol.

I will always love Lee and Witten for that matter. But it is time for these revered players to go. It's still a bit of a conundrum with Lee. He has to be situationally used due to his propensity to get injured. Then if he doesn't play for multiple games he isn't in the coverage zone as you'd like and he tackles inconsistently. We need rotational players that are durable and can come into the game on all cylinders. Lee was also held out of too many practices due to being dinged up and that affected his stamina and sharpness. Witten is still serviceable not only catching the ball but blocking. However it is telling how the football years have caught up with him. You can forget about yards after the catch when he is in there. He used to battle like a running back in first down scenarios. Witten is 50-50 catching intermediate passes but that is a luxury at the tight end position.
 

JMPearson

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Lee was Dallas best Lb down the stretch and one of the top 4 defensive players if he wants back at the right price And MM wants him then he should be back.

Witten basically retired during Commanders game he knows he is done.
 

Xeven

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Not until they draft a viable replacement. Just putting young guy out there does not improve the situation.
 

CB61

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I would have no issues if Lee stuck around. I think hes still an excellent rotational piece at this point.

Witten was a struggle to watch this year though. He is at the point where he is doing more harm than good to his legacy.
Lee might be an important stop gap for another year so we can get this roster settled
 

SSoup

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Lee was a savior for the defense down the stretch while Jaylon struggled and LVE was injured. Witten of course should hang up the cleats with a job well done. He’s got nothing more to give and nothing more to prove
I dunno, Lee had games where he was missing tackles and getting about as abused as any generic backup LB making the minimum would be. The Rams game was his only game where I think he did appreciably better than a generic replacement-level player could be expected to play.

And when we've devoted resources to the LBs like we have with Jaylon's extension and a 1st round pick to LVE, I really think we need to stop pouring money down the hole at that position. At a time when our pass-rush and our secondary need help, why are we obsessing over the linebackers so much and clinging to them this way? In 2020, it just isn't good economics to be this hyper-focused on the LB unit in a 4-3 defense. I don't think we have the luxury of spending 3.5 million on a backup linebacker who isn't even a special teams demon. In an uncapped scenario, sure. But not in this reality.

Paying Lee millions on the off-chance that he's pressed into duty as a backup, and on the off-chance that his good games out-number his bad games (now that his game has regressed clearly), and on the off-chance that he stays healthy in the first place? Feels like a losing proposition at this point.

Keeping Lee is nothing but a nostalgia move at this point.
 

OmerV

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As much as we all love Lee and Witten, keeping them around may do more harm than good in the locker room. We need as many McCarthy guys that are able bodied.

I know Lee and Witten would probably be good soldiers but their bodies are limited in the production they could give if the defense is a 4-3/3-4 hybrid and if they’re using the TE more in pass routes than traditional in line TE.

Jerry and Stephen will hate it but time to clear out anyone from 2010 or earlier. Except LP. The long snapper shouldn’t cause problems.
Lee stepped in and played well in most games in LVEs absence, and there is nothing wrong with Witten as long as he is used more sparingly. Neither is worthy of being a starter anymore, but both can be great role players and lead by example guys. The key is whether they will accept payment as more of a role player.
 

atlantacowboy

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Sean Lee is a scrub now. He needs to retire. Teams consistently targeted him in the running and passing games. At this point he is a mascot.

Sean Lee was our best LB most of the season and is by far the smartest guy on the field. Sure he missed tackles but at least he was in the right position to make plays which is more than can be said for the rest of our lbs.
 
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