Marvin Lewis recaps Cowboys interview

AbeBeta · Jan 12, 2020

Runwildboys said:
The candidates should be the incentive. I don't care what they look like, if they're the best candidates, I want them. If not, I want the ones who are.

Problem is "best" is highly subjective. People's biases infiltrate evaluations under subjective conditions which is why you make sure those biases are offset by rules.

garyo1954 · Jan 12, 2020

The reality is people will hire who they choose to hire. Doesn't matter how many laws, rules, or suggestions they are given. Like it or not, that's life.

Shake_Tiller · Jan 12, 2020

GMO415 said:
Rooney Rule needs to be re examined. There should be some type of incentive for a team to hire a minority HC

This is a complex issue, and I find myself torn.

On the one hand, I think the NFL should be the ultimate meritocracy. I don't even like the fact the draft order isn't random. I don't even like scheduling the next season by the order of finish of the current season. I don't like a salary cap. I'm not sure I like having a draft.

I know these things are unrealistic. I'm merely saying I prefer pure competition.

That said it is clear minority candidates are not getting enough opportunities. I can't imagine the frustration. And we are on a wheel that turns and turns. I'm not sure how it stops.

There might be no realistic choice other than to install some mechanisms to reward teams for hiring minority candidates. It is a tough issue. Circumstances are hardly better on the college level.

As for the Cowboys, given what they wanted - an experienced coach with a strong track record - I'm not sure it is fair to say Lewis wasnt considered or was just a box to be checked. He at least fit the requirements they wanted.

And objectively, McCarthy had the better resume. You can attribute it to the quarterback, if you wish, but McCarthy has a Super Bowl win and a pretty strong playoff record.

Maybe Lewis would have been the superior choice. We will never know. But given the two resumes, it is difficult to fault the McCarthy decision.

CATCH17 · Jan 12, 2020

Shake_Tiller said:
This is a complex issue, and I find myself torn.

On the one hand, I think the NFL should be the ultimate meritocracy. I don't even like the fact the draft order isn't random. I don't even like scheduling the next season by the order of finish of the current season. I don't like a salary cap. I'm not sure I like having a draft.

I know these things are unrealistic. I'm merely saying I prefer pure competition.

That said it is clear minority candidates are not getting enough opportunities. I can't imagine the frustration. And we are on a wheel that turns and turns. I'm not sure how it stops.

There might be no realistic choice other than to install some mechanisms to reward teams for hiring minority candidates. It is a tough issue. Circumstances are hardly better on the college level.

As for the Cowboys, given what they wanted - an experienced coach with a strong track record - I'm not sure it is fair to say Lewis wasnt considered or was just a box to be checked. He at least fit the requirements they wanted.

And objectively, McCarthy had the better resume. You can attribute it to the quarterback, if you wish, but McCarthy has a Super Bowl win and a pretty strong playoff record.

Maybe Lewis would have been the superior choice. We will never know. But given the two resumes, it is difficult to fault the McCarthy decision.

Marvin Lewis is in the Jason Garrett / Jeff Fisher category but I’ll admit he did a better job then them all things considered but they’re all comparable.

Nobody should want to hire any of those 3 to be their head coach. They had their time and couldn’t get the job done.

Runwildboys · Jan 12, 2020

AbeBeta said:
Problem is "best" is highly subjective. People's biases infiltrate evaluations under subjective conditions which is why you make sure those biases are offset by rules.

You can't make a rule that forces someone to hire a lesser coach, just to satisfy a ratio. That's not "equality".

Techsass · Jan 12, 2020

garyo1954 said:
The reality is people will hire who they choose to hire. Doesn't matter how many laws, rules, or suggestions they are given. Like it or not, that's life.

It might work at the coordinator level, but I can't see anybody hiring a HC that they don't believe is the best person available for the job.

iceberg · Jan 12, 2020

GMO415 said:
Rooney Rule needs to be re examined. There should be some type of incentive for a team to hire a minority HC

They should hire most qualified to run their billion dollar investments.

iceberg · Jan 12, 2020

GMO415 said:
A pepper flake in a five gallon sack of salt

Then great. We need more white running backs. Gotta level out percentages.

AbeBeta · Jan 12, 2020

Runwildboys said:
You can't make a rule that forces someone to hire a lesser coach, just to satisfy a ratio. That's not "equality".

Again. "Lesser" is completely subjective. Absent an objective standard, your argument has no basis.

Runwildboys · Jan 12, 2020

AbeBeta said:
Again. "Lesser" is completely subjective. Absent an objective standard, your argument has no basis.

Which candidate is better for the team, with more potential to create wins? How is that subjective? Yes, there are many variables, dependent upon the personalities involved, the particular talents of the players, etc., but those can be taken into account when deciding who's the best fit for the team.

lostar2009 · Jan 12, 2020

SoupcanSam said:
You still blow as a coach

Actually his body of work show he did a good job down there.

garyo1954 · Jan 12, 2020

Techsass said:
It might work at the coordinator level, but I can't see anybody hiring a HC that they don't believe is the best person available for the job.

This is just my outlook having been passed over for a job I was the best qualified but the bosses had decided to hire a woman.

It won't work at any level.

If the Rooney rules suddenly set quotas you would have coaches who would use, abuse, misuse and likely sue the NFL when they were passed over based on some perceived slight.

Coaches/coordinators would not accept the interview based on their minority status and refusal to be a 'token.' Coaches/coordinators would not interview knowing the job was designated to a certain group and they had no chance.

Basically no one would want to put their current job in jeopardy knowing they had no chance at the new position.

And coaches/coordinators would become complacent/lazy in learning their craft. What would be the use in being the best if you had no chance of moving to a better position?

If Marvin Lewis didn't feel he had a chance at the position he shouldn't have interviewed. He's a day late and a dollar short of convincing people now that he was passed over due to being a minority. I sympathize he didn't get the position, but put him in Jerry's position where he could have a coach that had never won a post season game or one who had a Super Bowl on his resume and see what he would do.

bewp7 · Jan 12, 2020

i know nfl fans think marvin lewis is some kind of joke because he didn’t win a playoff game with the bengals, but the job he did with them was amazing when u consider what a joke of an organization they are. just realize that the bengals have made the playoffs 14 times in 50-something years and HALF of those playoff appereances came under marvin lewis! people rightly say green bay didn’t sign free agents under mccarthy, but the cheapskate bengals usually didn’t even re-sign their own players!

texbumthelife · Jan 12, 2020

ultron said:
I respect Marvin as a man and as a coach - I think his playoff record really hurts him when interviewing for new HC jobs, but if he had Aaron Rodgers as his QB we'd be having a different conversation about Marvin.

I realllllly wish we could've got him as our D-coordinator

Or if he hadn't demanded to bring Hue Jackson. Did anyone one else even interviewed the guy? Multiple teams had MM at the top of their list. That should tell you something.

gjkoeppen · Jan 12, 2020

bewp7 said:
i know nfl fans think marvin lewis is some kind of joke because he didn’t win a playoff game with the bengals, but the job he did with them was amazing when u consider what a joke of an organization they are. just realize that the bengals have made the playoffs 14 times in 50-something years and HALF of those playoff appereances came under marvin lewis! people rightly say green bay didn’t sign free agents under mccarthy, but the cheapskate bengals usually didn’t even re-sign their own players!

McCarthy wasn't the GM so to call McCarthy a cheapskate is out of line. At that time with that GM they had the philosophy of building through the draft and not renting free agents. If you want to call someone a cheapskate call Ted Thompson a cheapskate.
.

Kevinicus · Jan 12, 2020

Shake_Tiller said:
This is a complex issue, and I find myself torn.

On the one hand, I think the NFL should be the ultimate meritocracy. I don't even like the fact the draft order isn't random. I don't even like scheduling the next season by the order of finish of the current season. I don't like a salary cap. I'm not sure I like having a draft.

I know these things are unrealistic. I'm merely saying I prefer pure competition.

That said it is clear minority candidates are not getting enough opportunities. I can't imagine the frustration. And we are on a wheel that turns and turns. I'm not sure how it stops.

There might be no realistic choice other than to install some mechanisms to reward teams for hiring minority candidates. It is a tough issue. Circumstances are hardly better on the college level.

As for the Cowboys, given what they wanted - an experienced coach with a strong track record - I'm not sure it is fair to say Lewis wasnt considered or was just a box to be checked. He at least fit the requirements they wanted.

And objectively, McCarthy had the better resume. You can attribute it to the quarterback, if you wish, but McCarthy has a Super Bowl win and a pretty strong playoff record.

Maybe Lewis would have been the superior choice. We will never know. But given the two resumes, it is difficult to fault the McCarthy decision.

No salary cap kills a meritocracy.

Cowboysheelsreds053 · Jan 12, 2020

Beaker42 said:
“Hey Marvin, thanks for coming in.”

“Thank you for this opportunity. I’d really love to coach your Cowboys.”

“Sorry, already picked our guy. We’ll buy you lunch at the Golden Corral for stopping by.”

LLLOOOLLL, stop Beak!

AbeBeta · Jan 12, 2020

Runwildboys said:
Which candidate is better for the team, with more potential to create wins? How is that subjective? Yes, there are many variables, dependent upon the personalities involved, the particular talents of the players, etc., but those can be taken into account when deciding who's the best fit for the team.

Lol.

Please describe how you develop a clear and objective set of criteria around all that.

Pretending there is a clear objective standard is foolish and promotes bias

Staggerlee · Jan 12, 2020

garyo1954 said:
The reality is people will hire who they choose to hire. Doesn't matter how many laws, rules, or suggestions they are given. Like it or not, that's life.

So we should just accept it as fact of life rather than try to change it for the better? That's a weak attitude to have.

Runwildboys · Jan 12, 2020

AbeBeta said:
Lol.

Please describe how you develop a clear and objective set of criteria around all that.

Pretending there is a clear objective standard is foolish and promotes bias

You can't create a standard, and that's the point. Each team and owner is different, with different needs that determine which candidate would be the best fit.

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