Bill Cowher gets in HOF before Jimmy Johnson?

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lockster

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Jerry deserved it 100% and it’s not even close. Jerry basically changed how teams market he’s made the league billions of dollars and made the Cowboys a multi billion dollar organization. He made the Cowboys a brand, and not just a team he was also part of those 3 SB and nobody can take that from him. All of that added up is HOF worthy my man.
Yes I agree, but what he did is also responsible for the destruction of the NFL,. Salary cap being first on that list, since the cap doesn't encourage player loyalty or fairness as other teams take Ur players U have found and developed. So Jerry also deserves the HALL OF SHAME jacket too! Lol
 

jterrell

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See Terrell Davis
Who said Terrell Davis should be in?

Gratz to Coach Johnson though. I wasn't against him getting in. Merely didn't see him as a guy with a major gripe about it.
I do think Woody and Cliff Harris and other ex-Cowboys have MAJOR GRIPES.

Coach Johnson brought the Miami speed 4-3 with DL rotation to the league.
He also kept a special teams spot for an ace gunner helping win that phase of the game.
And he pioneered tanking to collect as many draft picks as possible.
 

jterrell

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Gale Sayers just beat it with 7 years.
Sayers was arguably the greatest RB and returner in NFL history for a 5 year stretch that included 5 All Pros.

Comparing that to a coach or Terrell Davis is goofy.
Sayers is in the all time best RB discussion.
 

Doomsday101

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all they did was announce Cower 1st but both Jimmy and Bill were voted in ahead of the announcement. They wanted to present it to them during each of the broadcast. People here seem to make big deal and of nothing.
 

atlantacowboy

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Who said Terrell Davis should be in?

Gratz to Coach Johnson though. I wasn't against him getting in. Merely didn't see him as a guy with a major gripe about it.
I do think Woody and Cliff Harris and other ex-Cowboys have MAJOR GRIPES.

Coach Johnson brought the Miami speed 4-3 with DL rotation to the league.
He also kept a special teams spot for an ace gunner helping win that phase of the game.
And he pioneered tanking to collect as many draft picks as possible.

It wasn't tanking. The team was that bad. The hershel Walker trade had nothing to do with tanking and that how we ended up with all those draft picks. . All he had to do was not play and/or cut the MN players to collect the draft picks.
 

jterrell

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It wasn't tanking. The team was that bad. The hershel Walker trade had nothing to do with tanking and that how we ended up with all those draft picks. . All he had to do was not play and/or cut the MN players to collect the draft picks.
Yes, those players were better than what we had but he benched or traded(Nelson), cut them to receive draft picks instead.

That was in fact the first instance of tanking I am aware of.

The Cowboys received five players in exchange for Walker: Jesse Solomon, David Howard, Issiac Holt, Darrin Nelson and Alex Stewart. None of them was a true standout, but Johnson never believed they were before acquiring them. He had other plans.

Defensive coordinator Dave Wannstedt said, "I told him, 'Jimmy, these guys are better than we what we've got.'” Johnson’s response was telling: “'I know, but I've got something else in mind.'"

Johnson didn’t want those players on his team. He wanted the conditional picks attached to them. As part of the trade, if Johnson released or traded any of the players before 1990, he would receive draft pick compensation. And so, Johnson did exactly that. He traded Nelson to the Chargers after he refused to report for camp, turning him into two late-round picks. He cut Stewart to receive the second-round pick attached to him. The rest were benched, per Johnson’s instructions.

In all, the Cowboys received 13 players or picks in return for Walker. It was one of the truly brilliant trades ever made for the simple reason that Johnson led the Vikings to believe those players had value, when in reality they were merely draft picks.

Also weird factoid but to pull the trade off Jerry Jones had to really sweeten the deal .. for Hershel to GO.
Walker was happy in Dallas – it was warm, he was playing well. So when the Cowboys told him they were going to trade him to the Vikings, he was not amused. He was angry, actually.

“I wasn’t going to Minnesota. I was like, ‘Crap, I’m not going to Minnesota. It’s cold in Minnesota. I’m not going to Minnesota.’ And Jerry was like, ‘What does he want to go to Minnesota? What does he need?’ And we were not going. ‘If you want to know what we want, we got this list of stuff written out.’ All this crazy stuff, but we were going to let Jerry know we weren’t going. … Jerry agreed to it. He called our bluff.”

Walker required an exit bonus, a free house in Minneapolis similar to the one he had in Dallas and a Mercedes-Benz. Jones wound up paying Walker $1.25 million to go and agreed to the other terms on Walker’s list, clearing the path for him to play for the Vikings.
 

atlantacowboy

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Yes, those players were better than what we had but he benched or traded(Nelson), cut them to receive draft picks instead.

That was in fact the first instance of tanking I am aware of.

The Cowboys received five players in exchange for Walker: Jesse Solomon, David Howard, Issiac Holt, Darrin Nelson and Alex Stewart. None of them was a true standout, but Johnson never believed they were before acquiring them. He had other plans.

Defensive coordinator Dave Wannstedt said, "I told him, 'Jimmy, these guys are better than we what we've got.'” Johnson’s response was telling: “'I know, but I've got something else in mind.'"

Johnson didn’t want those players on his team. He wanted the conditional picks attached to them. As part of the trade, if Johnson released or traded any of the players before 1990, he would receive draft pick compensation. And so, Johnson did exactly that. He traded Nelson to the Chargers after he refused to report for camp, turning him into two late-round picks. He cut Stewart to receive the second-round pick attached to him. The rest were benched, per Johnson’s instructions.

In all, the Cowboys received 13 players or picks in return for Walker. It was one of the truly brilliant trades ever made for the simple reason that Johnson led the Vikings to believe those players had value, when in reality they were merely draft picks.

Also weird factoid but to pull the trade off Jerry Jones had to really sweeten the deal .. for Hershel to GO.
Walker was happy in Dallas – it was warm, he was playing well. So when the Cowboys told him they were going to trade him to the Vikings, he was not amused. He was angry, actually.

“I wasn’t going to Minnesota. I was like, ‘Crap, I’m not going to Minnesota. It’s cold in Minnesota. I’m not going to Minnesota.’ And Jerry was like, ‘What does he want to go to Minnesota? What does he need?’ And we were not going. ‘If you want to know what we want, we got this list of stuff written out.’ All this crazy stuff, but we were going to let Jerry know we weren’t going. … Jerry agreed to it. He called our bluff.”

Walker required an exit bonus, a free house in Minneapolis similar to the one he had in Dallas and a Mercedes-Benz. Jones wound up paying Walker $1.25 million to go and agreed to the other terms on Walker’s list, clearing the path for him to play for the Vikings.


Ok. Agreed. But it still wasn't tanking in the traditional sense b/c the teams record had nothing to do with it. He wasn't trying to lose. He was trying to get the conditional draft picks.
 

jterrell

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Ok. Agreed. But it still wasn't tanking in the traditional sense b/c the teams record had nothing to do with it. He wasn't trying to lose. He was trying to get the conditional draft picks.
Not playing your best talent to gain draft picks advantage is kinda the definition of tanking:)
It worked and fueled a massively quick turn-around given the staff was so well acquainted with the kids coming out.
 

mrmojo

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Who said Terrell Davis should be in?

Gratz to Coach Johnson though. I wasn't against him getting in. Merely didn't see him as a guy with a major gripe about it.
I do think Woody and Cliff Harris and other ex-Cowboys have MAJOR GRIPES.

Coach Johnson brought the Miami speed 4-3 with DL rotation to the league.
He also kept a special teams spot for an ace gunner helping win that phase of the game.
And he pioneered tanking to collect as many draft picks as possible.
What? Tanking?
 

atlantacowboy

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Not playing your best talent to gain draft picks advantage is kinda the definition of tanking:)
It worked and fueled a massively quick turn-around given the staff was so well acquainted with the kids coming out.

I'm not debating the wisdom of it. It was so ingenious that even Mike Lynn who was a good GM didn't see it coming.

I think we are debating the definition of tanking. In my view, it implies an intention to lose. In Jimmy's case, it was more of a side effect.
 

jterrell

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I'm not debating the wisdom of it. It was so ingenious that even Mike Lynn who was a good GM didn't see it coming.

I think we are debating the definition of tanking. In my view, it implies an intention to lose. In Jimmy's case, it was more of a side effect.
Not sure there's really any debate to be had.
You either play your best players in an attempt to win or you trade, cut, sit players who would help you to gain draft pick advantages instead.
He literally knowingly benched better players which led to more losses.
That's tanking. He just had more motivation for it than others have had.
It improved the draft value of each Cowboys pick while ensuring max draft pick comp from MIN.
They were picking top of each round with their own picks.
And yes Mike Lynn got bamboozled. But he was in a win now mode and probably didn't much care. Until Walker got there and hated it and played like crap.
Walker is a true southern-friend dude. He hated the north.

If you look at that 1991 draft they really didn't even draft that well but they had 18 picks so had many picks that the 4 or 5 guys who hit really helped them reach elite status.
In fact the Cowboys probably drafted below average if you just factor player value per pick but the strategy was so ingenious that it didn't matter.
Controlling so many top 100 players across 2-3 drafts set them up for the insane ceiling.
 

blueblood70

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why is this an issue, seems like the OP was but premature, JJ is going and im assuming that puts pressure on Jerry to put hi in the ROF..
 

atlantacowboy

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Not sure there's really any debate to be had.
You either play your best players in an attempt to win or you trade, cut, sit players who would help you to gain draft pick advantages instead.
He literally knowingly benched better players which led to more losses.
That's tanking. He just had more motivation for it than others have had.
It improved the draft value of each Cowboys pick while ensuring max draft pick comp from MIN.
They were picking top of each round with their own picks.
And yes Mike Lynn got bamboozled. But he was in a win now mode and probably didn't much care. Until Walker got there and hated it and played like crap.
Walker is a true southern-friend dude. He hated the north.

If you look at that 1991 draft they really didn't even draft that well but they had 18 picks so had many picks that the 4 or 5 guys who hit really helped them reach elite status.
In fact the Cowboys probably drafted below average if you just factor player value per pick but the strategy was so ingenious that it didn't matter.
Controlling so many top 100 players across 2-3 drafts set them up for the insane ceiling.

He benched the players but his PRIMARY intention was to acquire the draft picks attached to those players. LOSING was a side effect not a primary intention. Without intention to lose, there is no tanking.
 

jterrell

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He benched the players but his PRIMARY intention was to acquire the draft picks attached to those players. LOSING was a side effect not a primary intention. Without intention to lose, there is no tanking.
rofl... that is tanking.
IF focus 1 is draft picks, not winning, that is in fact tanking.
IF you avoid playing better players because of draft pick return, that is TANKING.
IF you trade players who can help now for future draft pick comp: TANKING.

Weird to even argue this goofiness. If you bench better players to play lesser ones, you are tanking.

The word wasnt in our lexicon back then or it most definitely would have been called tanking.

The very definition of tanking is to: Focus on draft comp return at cost of maximizing wins.
The 1990 team had a lot of talent actually but it was forced to be young. They avoided playing guys that could have helped and instead went something sad like 3-7 in the first 10. Then they started winning games.
Having ended that strat in 1991 they were all out guns blazing. 11-5 and return to the playoffs.
1992 and 1993 were arguably the greatest football teams to ever be assembled.
 

Cowboysheelsreds053

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Sayers was arguably the greatest RB and returner in NFL history for a 5 year stretch that included 5 All Pros.

Comparing that to a coach or Terrell Davis is goofy.
Sayers is in the all time best RB discussion.

Agree, the question was has there ever been someone player or coach in the HOF with 5 years or less of service. Heck I have a Gale Sayers jersey and too me was the best back along with Jim Brown ever. That is no slap in the face too Walter, Emmitt, Barry or TD.
 
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