Re watched Dallas VS Broncos SB 12

MikeB80

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The DLinemen of today are carring 20-70 lbs more weight than they did in the 70s and 80s. And the OLinemen are 50-80 lbs bigger. The physicality of today's game is much higher than it was so these guys are taking bigger hits and getting gassed.

Much more focus on strength training than cardio is another factor.

yea I dont know about that.

The other day I watched the december 1986 Giants at Commanders game for the fun of it. Both teams were 11-2 and playing for the east and maybe home field.

I would say it was a more physical game than any I watched this year. Its just a completely different game.
 

MikeB80

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There is some truth in what you said. This generation have been babied by their parents and society and because of that the NFL has the CBA they have now. I don't think today's players are as physically and mentally tough as the players prior to the 80's. Again this goes back to the CBA that dictates who many practices in training camp and during the season, how long they can be and when they can wear pads and have contact. Back in the day, the head coach decided when and how many practices in training camp and had 2 a days on most days. They wore pads for every practice and there was contact in most. During the season the same thing. If a practice wasn't going as the coach wanted he could and would keep them out there until they did wearing pads during all practices expect the Friday walk through..Those are the things that made the players of old much tougher than today's players.
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give me a break with the parents baby them nonsense.

a more accurate statement would be, the owners took advantage of the players for 3 decades and in the last 20 years they have finally done something to protect themselves for the long term financially and health wise.

The generation before you thought you were babied by your parents...so no matter how tough you think you had it or you are keep that in mind.
 

LocimusPrime

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I don't agree with this at all. Yes, the players are bigger but the game is not more physical today then it was then. I think it's the other way around.

JMO
:hammer:

Same as in basketball. The game was much more physical than today
 

gjkoeppen

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give me a break with the parents baby them nonsense.

a more accurate statement would be, the owners took advantage of the players for 3 decades and in the last 20 years they have finally done something to protect themselves for the long term financially and health wise.

The generation before you thought you were babied by your parents...so no matter how tough you think you had it or you are keep that in mind.

The mindset of the millennials in general has been widely publicized and has been widedly stated that they have been babied and pampered like no other generation. They have been turned into the ME generation and not just the ME generation but the ME generation NOW. I'm going to take a guess that you are a millennial so you think as you do. You say every generation thinks they had it hard and thinks the generation prior to mine thought i had it easier and to a very small extent that's true. I wasn't even expected to quit school after the 6th grade to go to work to help the family but I am old enough to see the differences in the generations of the 60's and up and see how things changed and there is zero doubt that millennials are a bunch of babied pampered group that expects everything now and handed to them.
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MikeB80

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The mindset of the millennials in general has been widely publicized and has been widedly stated that they have been babied and pampered like no other generation. They have been turned into the ME generation and not just the ME generation but the ME generation NOW. I'm going to take a guess that you are a millennial so you think as you do. You say every generation thinks they had it hard and thinks the generation prior to mine thought i had it easier and to a very small extent that's true. I wasn't even expected to quit school after the 6th grade to go to work to help the family but I am old enough to see the differences in the generations of the 60's and up and see how things changed and there is zero doubt that millennials are a bunch of babied pampered group that expects everything now and handed to them.
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I am a proud Gen X Slacker my friend.

The ME generation was the 80's.

The mindset of the millennials? Turn off your fox news grandpa.
 

Hayseed

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Its a copycat league. The 49,rs were the first team to really stringently rotate defensive lineman in and out of the game on a pitch count back in the early 80,s. Walsh believed that pass rush late in games was a huge key to success. I agree with him, I just always thought that Rod substituted wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much is all. We should rotate AT LEAST a 3rd less than what we have been doing IMO.
 

Hayseed

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take a look around. I would say with age comes health problems, gray hair and bad knees.

but that is just me.


You too will know of these things someday. Unless of coarse we boomers decide to wipe out the Earth that is...LOL After all,...we already sucked it dry of everything it has to offer for ourselves.... so.... what the hell! Nothing of any value left anyway,... we already took it all! :p
 

gjkoeppen

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take a look around. I would say with age comes health problems, gray hair and bad knees.

but that is just me.

That may be so but we also get wisdom. I do have bad knees and shoulders and I have lost a lot of hair but I still have wisdom.
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MichaelValentino

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You clearly have no clue. Randy White benched over 500 lbs. He could easily play today or any other era of football. In fact I would take Randy White over any defensive linemen of today. Does Aaron Donald stand a chance against those guys? Oh you mean he does. Donald benched 495 lbs. Donald only weighs 20lbs more than Randy White. Randy could have put on 40 more pounds if needed as he was 6'4". Randy would dominate today just as he did back then.

Something else you forgot, allot of players back then took steroids. (Not saying Randy did) Players back then were not weaker than players today as a general rule. So, they may not have weighed as much but they were equal to or stronger than many players today.

The game was far more physical back then. The game today is considered far more gentlemanly than it was back then.

I agree with a lot here^

Randy White played at 265-270. I wrote an article about him for Your Daily Cowboys Football Fix some years back. While his max bench was 500 lb, White also did 10 reps at 450 lb. He said he could have benched and squatted more than he did, but he didn't want to lose quickness and agility. Back then the Steelers - especially their O-line - were known for heavy lifting.

Randy also trained in martial arts. I've practiced JKD and Filipino styles, and I know Randy trained in these as well as Muay Thai. He worked on hubud flow drills, which helped him in the trenches, using those kind of hand drills to gain whatever advantage he could. He also faced the best guards in football at the time, including John Hannah, who's regarded by many as the greatest guard ever (or 2nd to Larry Allen).

Randy was so good that in one Pro Bowl (back when they were actually fun to watch), with Lee Roy Selmon lined up to this right, the AFC doubled Randy on almost every play with Hannah and Mike Webster. Also, back then the NFL had strong man competitions. One event was a boxing match between White and his buddy, Jets DT/DE Joe Klecko (whom Hannah said was one of the two toughest guys he ever faced; Randy White was the other). With head gear and 16 oz gloves, White KO'd Klecko in the first round with a short right. The Manster was one bad dude.

Larry Allen was an absolute load, and he's the only guard in history I'd consider over Hannah. He did dominate the best DTs he faced, but it's not like he utterly destroyed guys like Warren Sapp or John Randle on every single snap. And as great as Sapp and Randle were, White was better. As great as Aaron Donald is (and he is the best DT of the last 30 years), I don't think he's better than White was (or Bob Lilly, or Mean Joe Greene).

My point is, yes, Randy White would probably have dominated today at 280-285 without losing much quickness, and had he faced Allen, he'd have some victories (like he did vs. Hannah) even though Allen would win out on most running plays. I think Lilly, Greene, Merlin Olsen and Alan Page (the other historically great DTs) would all make some plays vs. Allen, but for 60 minutes, Allen would win the battle. LA was so big, agile and powerful that nobody could dominate him.

Losing a battle to Larry Allen is no embarrassment. Not even for a Hall of Fame DT like Randy White, who I contend is better than anyone Allen lined up against. My $0.02.
 

OmerV

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This came up in my recommendation list and decided to watch it. What I wanted to see is the defense. I paid attention to how many times Landry took out his star players in the game. *Hint* not one time did Landry sub out Randy White, or Harvey Martin. Let that sink in for a minute. They rotated Larry Cole out a few plays and too tall a few plays and played some other players. I still do not understand why Lawrence has to come out of the game? I will NEVER agree with removing so called star players during the game, so don't try and convince me. To me it is just the signs of the times of today. People do not work as hard as they once did including football players yet they all want to be paid more.

These guys played the entire game. And believe me they PLAYED. Meaning they kicked butt all game long.

For all of you young fans, I recommend that you watch this game as it will give you a bit of perspective as to what many of us on this board keep saying because we remember these days. We remember when our defense was DOMINANT. When the QB was constantly under pressure. When announcers would say "No team looks forward to this situation, 3rd down and long against Dallas"

When was the last time you saw a team replace their QB because he couldn't escape Dallas pass rush and put in a more mobile QB just to give them a better chance????

Anyway, it felt good to watch a Cowboy game like this again. 8 freaking take aways by this defense.


Landry limited Dorsett's carries, and Preston Pearson was a designated 3rd down RB, so those Cowboys actually did get some limits on offense.

Defenses may have been different though. Empty backfields and 4-5 WR sets weren't really a thing then, so defenses have had to adjust. But I agree with you on a player like Lawrence. He's a good pass rusher and good against the run, and he is still fairly young, so he should be in almost every snap.
 

Keithfansince5

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I agree with a lot here^

Randy White played at 265-270. I wrote an article about him for Your Daily Cowboys Football Fix some years back. While his max bench was 500 lb, White also did 10 reps at 450 lb. He said he could have benched and squatted more than he did, but he didn't want to lose quickness and agility. Back then the Steelers - especially their O-line - were known for heavy lifting.

Randy also trained in martial arts. I've practiced JKD and Filipino styles, and I know Randy trained in these as well as Muay Thai. He worked on hubud flow drills, which helped him in the trenches, using those kind of hand drills to gain whatever advantage he could. He also faced the best guards in football at the time, including John Hannah, who's regarded by many as the greatest guard ever (or 2nd to Larry Allen).

Randy was so good that in one Pro Bowl (back when they were actually fun to watch), with Lee Roy Selmon lined up to this right, the AFC doubled Randy on almost every play with Hannah and Mike Webster. Also, back then the NFL had strong man competitions. One event was a boxing match between White and his buddy, Jets DT/DE Joe Klecko (whom Hannah said was one of the two toughest guys he ever faced; Randy White was the other). With head gear and 16 oz gloves, White KO'd Klecko in the first round with a short right. The Manster was one bad dude.

Larry Allen was an absolute load, and he's the only guard in history I'd consider over Hannah. He did dominate the best DTs he faced, but it's not like he utterly destroyed guys like Warren Sapp or John Randle on every single snap. And as great as Sapp and Randle were, White was better. As great as Aaron Donald is (and he is the best DT of the last 30 years), I don't think he's better than White was (or Bob Lilly, or Mean Joe Greene).

My point is, yes, Randy White would probably have dominated today at 280-285 without losing much quickness, and had he faced Allen, he'd have some victories (like he did vs. Hannah) even though Allen would win out on most running plays. I think Lilly, Greene, Merlin Olsen and Alan Page (the other historically great DTs) would all make some plays vs. Allen, but for 60 minutes, Allen would win the battle. LA was so big, agile and powerful that nobody could dominate him.

Losing a battle to Larry Allen is no embarrassment. Not even for a Hall of Fame DT like Randy White, who I contend is better than anyone Allen lined up against. My $0.02.
Excellent analysis. :hammer:
 

NickZepp

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The game has changed, faster paced, bigger, faster, stronger......more plays being run....blah, blah, blah.....
I still miss those days! Thanks for the memories.
I don't think the lines are really that much different. They are bigger but not really faster. The difference as others have said is that coverage isn't allowed as much. The rules changes literally started after this game. The 78 season introduced the 5 yard illegal contact rule and stricter PI's being called. So passing game started to get better over the years. Pass rushers are now more important than they were back then. Although Harvey Martin was one of the best pass rushers of that time and maybe still the best for Cowboys history overall. He's one of those that could probably still be a top line pass rusher today.
 

Number1

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Randy White played DT at 6-3, 260.

Randy White at 260 was as undersized at DT as Donald is now at 280

the averages have gone up on the OL and interior DL
but the rest has not changed much

for example

Butkus 6' 3" 245 MLB
Lanier was 6'1" 245 MLB
Jack Lambert was "lanky" at 6'4" 220 and would start at any LB position on any team ever

BTW. Bobby Wagner is 6'0" 240
 
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