Twitter: Slater: McCarthy hasn’t spoken to Dak yet

Corso

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Dallas could call the Bengals and offer Zeke, Lawrence, Dak and our #1 for their #1 and we could take Burrows. He is dam good too.
You think they'd take on that much cap space? Including having to sign Dak, who would have to sign a tag, or get signed first before being traded?
Seriously?
 

cern

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Elite qb's are rare as blue diamonds. Everyone knew Mahomey would be good. But NO ONE could have imagined how good. He stands alone at the Crest of the mountain. Even with names like jackson, Wilson, garoppolo, rodgers and Watson bandied about.
 

Dodger12

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Dallas selected Claiborne with the sixth overall, moving up eight spots in the first round after a trade with the St. Louis Rams. St. Louis got the No. 14 pick and the Cowboys' second-round selection, 45th overall.

just curious what you think it would take to move from #17 to #1?

If it's for a franchise QB, the whole draft if that's what it took. The position is that important.

But why does it have to be #1? You keep moving the goalposts. None of the QB's we were discussing were #1 overall. The Chiefs didn't sell their souls and gave up two firsts and a 3rd to get Mahomes. I do that all day for a shot at a franchise QB.
 

Kwyn

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If it's for a franchise QB, the whole draft if that's what it took. The position is that important.

But why does it have to be #1? You keep moving the goalposts. None of the QB's we were discussing were #1 overall. The Chiefs didn't sell their souls and gave up two firsts and a 3rd to get Mahomes. I do that all day for a shot at a franchise QB.

mahomes and Jackson sliding took several things to come to pass

mahomes was the 2nd QB taken in his draft

Jackson was the 5th

teams that needed a QB had to pass on both of them and the teams that took them had to get lucky that their own research panned out

mahomes slid because of the knocks on his mechanics and decision making. Four teams who needed a QB passed on him. The league overall had him slotted as a 2nd or even 3rd round pick (including Aikman)

jackson slid because his completion percentage was terrible. The entire league missed on him and it was projected that he would need a lot of time to learn how to play the pro game

I’m not trying to move the goalposts at all. I’m simply saying that QB is the hardest position in the league to evaluate and finding a Mahomes or Jackson is like hitting a 60 yard FG into a crosswind.

I see poster after poster saying “well, trade up and draft a Mahomes!” Or “Lamar went at 32! Let’s do that!”

It’s really freaking hard. Harder than any of us can imagine

The reason I mention getting to number one is because that’s the one sure fire way to hedge your bet. You get to pick whoever you want and don’t have to worry about what other teams are doing and you get what is usually perceived to be a franchise level QB

anything less is just rolling the dice

show me a way to get the #1 and I’ll be on board with drafting a QB and jettisoning Dak. Any plans that revolve around capturing lightning in a bottle with the third or fourth best rated QB on the board and I’m going to have to think real long and hard about the odds of me ending up with someone equal to or better than Dak.

Here’s the list again.

How many of these are better than Dak?
Of those who are better, where were they taken?

The number of QB’s who don’t pan out is really high. Only two of the past five years even have a QB that is or will be elite unless you are betting on Goff or Wentz.

All I’m saying is it’s hard and really risky. There are fans who wouldn’t mind drafting a QB in the first round every year or two hoping to strike gold but risking a trail of wasted drafts behind them.

I’m not that fan.

2015
Winston - 1
Mariota - 2
Grayson - 75
Mannion - 85

2016
Goff - 1
Wentz - 2
Lynch - 26
Hackenberg - 51
Brissett - 91
Kessler - 93

2017
Trubisky - 2
Mahomes - 10
Watson - 12
Kizer - 52
Webb - 87
Beatherd - 104

2018
Mayfield - 1
Darnold - 3
Allen - 7
Rosen - 10
Jackson - 32
Rudolph - 76

2019
Murray - 1
Jones - 6
Haskins - 15
Lock - 42
Grier - 100
 

cern

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when there are multiple qb's coming out of college, it is front office perception which is the best. aikman clearly was the best. but at other times, it's not a simple choice. screw it up and you're damned for life.
 

Keithfansince5

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As soon as he got the job he should have been on the phone with key players. Especially the ones with no contract. A phone call takes 5 minutes.
I assume those players have phones too right? Sort of like how parents bemoan their kids not calling them enough. Why aren't the parents calling? As the leader Dak should have called Mike welcoming him to Dallas. That is what Staubach would have done.
 

phildadon86

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Right.....Just because I don’t like your precious QB :rolleyes:. Go back and pray to the football gods at your Dak shrine. Maybe they’ll answer and make him a consistent top 5 QB.
Jackson was kicked out of the playoffs by Tannehill. We should go sign him since Baltimore Will be letting him go. Right?
 

Dodger12

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mahomes and Jackson sliding took several things to come to pass

mahomes was the 2nd QB taken in his draft

Jackson was the 5th

teams that needed a QB had to pass on both of them and the teams that took them had to get lucky that their own research panned out

mahomes slid because of the knocks on his mechanics and decision making. Four teams who needed a QB passed on him. The league overall had him slotted as a 2nd or even 3rd round pick (including Aikman)

jackson slid because his completion percentage was terrible. The entire league missed on him and it was projected that he would need a lot of time to learn how to play the pro game

I’m not trying to move the goalposts at all. I’m simply saying that QB is the hardest position in the league to evaluate and finding a Mahomes or Jackson is like hitting a 60 yard FG into a crosswind.

I see poster after poster saying “well, trade up and draft a Mahomes!” Or “Lamar went at 32! Let’s do that!”

It’s really freaking hard. Harder than any of us can imagine

The reason I mention getting to number one is because that’s the one sure fire way to hedge your bet. You get to pick whoever you want and don’t have to worry about what other teams are doing and you get what is usually perceived to be a franchise level QB

anything less is just rolling the dice

show me a way to get the #1 and I’ll be on board with drafting a QB and jettisoning Dak. Any plans that revolve around capturing lightning in a bottle with the third or fourth best rated QB on the board and I’m going to have to think real long and hard about the odds of me ending up with someone equal to or better than Dak.

Here’s the list again.

How many of these are better than Dak?
Of those who are better, where were they taken?

The number of QB’s who don’t pan out is really high. Only two of the past five years even have a QB that is or will be elite unless you are betting on Goff or Wentz.

All I’m saying is it’s hard and really risky. There are fans who wouldn’t mind drafting a QB in the first round every year or two hoping to strike gold but risking a trail of wasted drafts behind them.

I’m not that fan.

2015
Winston - 1
Mariota - 2
Grayson - 75
Mannion - 85

2016
Goff - 1
Wentz - 2
Lynch - 26
Hackenberg - 51
Brissett - 91
Kessler - 93

2017
Trubisky - 2
Mahomes - 10
Watson - 12
Kizer - 52
Webb - 87
Beatherd - 104

2018
Mayfield - 1
Darnold - 3
Allen - 7
Rosen - 10
Jackson - 32
Rudolph - 76

2019
Murray - 1
Jones - 6
Haskins - 15
Lock - 42
Grier - 100

I'm not sure what you're saying or what it has to do with the initial discussion. Is finding and drafting a QB hard? Absolutely. But what alternatives do teams have? Hope that Dak turns into Brady?

And good QB's slide in every draft and can be found beyond the 1st overall pick. If a team wants a QB, they need to make a plan and take a chance. Just because it may not work out that doesn't mean you don't do it. The last time we took a QB in the 1st round was 31 years ago and that's the last time we had a SB QB. I don't think that's a coincidence.
 

DuncanIso

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I assume those players have phones too right? Sort of like how parents bemoan their kids not calling them enough. Why aren't the parents calling? As the leader Dak should have called Mike welcoming him to Dallas. That is what Staubach would have done.


Rodgers and MM hated each other.

could be a pattern....
 

Keithfansince5

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Rodgers and MM hated each other.

could be a pattern....
Hate is a strong word. Personally I don't like Rodgers. I base that on how he presents himself. If I were on his team, he would not be a friend of mine. He seems a little too into himself. Just my take on it. MM has been here all of a week or so. Any judging of him or his character is silly at this point.
 

Kwyn

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Hate is a strong word. Personally I don't like Rodgers. I base that on how he presents himself. If I were on his team, he would not be a friend of mine. He seems a little too into himself. Just my take on it. MM has been here all of a week or so. Any judging of him or his character is silly at this point.
Yeah, lots of reports and comments out there that Rogers is a miserable SOB in both his personal and professional life.

there are tons of people who have issues with Rodgers. The only report of anyone having deep personal issues with McCarthy is ... Aaron Rodgers
 

Kwyn

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I'm not sure what you're saying or what it has to do with the initial discussion. Is finding and drafting a QB hard? Absolutely. But what alternatives do teams have? Hope that Dak turns into Brady?

And good QB's slide in every draft and can be found beyond the 1st overall pick. If a team wants a QB, they need to make a plan and take a chance. Just because it may not work out that doesn't mean you don't do it. The last time we took a QB in the 1st round was 31 years ago and that's the last time we had a SB QB. I don't think that's a coincidence.

the problem is that at some point you have to just roll with what you have. You don’t have to have Tom Brady to win a Super Bowl. It certainly helps (and having the greatest football coach in history doesn’t hurt), but there are times when it makes sense to churn churn churn trying to find an elite QB and there are times where that doesn’t make sense

I’m of the opinion that Dak is good enough to win a championship with the right team and coaching around him. His teammates love and follow him and that counts for a lot.

Im also of the opinion that our team is too old and too good to burn it down and start over. If he only had Cooper Rush at QB i might be advocating for a tear down, fire sale scenario but I’m that situation I would have liked to see a Matt Rhule type of selection at HC

we’re not a rebuild. I just don’t like the disruption and random crap shoot of trying to bring in the “next Aikman” on a team that has a shot at truly competing at a high level with the offensive talent already in place.

Oh, and the last time we drafted a QB in the first round ... it was #1 overall. I don’t think that proves your point as much as it proves mine.

one final note about Aikman. Just this morning on the Ticket, you could hear that he was *still* pissed about Jimmy bringing in Steve Walsh to compete for the job. 30 years later and he’s bringing it up.

Having an open competition for QB is not something to be entered into lightly. If you’re spending high draft picks on a QB you are telling the entire team that you might not have faith in your starter. That was ok when the Cowboys were 1-15, coming off 3-13. It’s maybe not such a good idea when you have a team where all the players think they are capable of winning a championship next year
 

csirl

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mahomes and Jackson sliding took several things to come to pass

mahomes was the 2nd QB taken in his draft

Jackson was the 5th

teams that needed a QB had to pass on both of them and the teams that took them had to get lucky that their own research panned out

mahomes slid because of the knocks on his mechanics and decision making. Four teams who needed a QB passed on him. The league overall had him slotted as a 2nd or even 3rd round pick (including Aikman)

jackson slid because his completion percentage was terrible. The entire league missed on him and it was projected that he would need a lot of time to learn how to play the pro game

I’m not trying to move the goalposts at all. I’m simply saying that QB is the hardest position in the league to evaluate and finding a Mahomes or Jackson is like hitting a 60 yard FG into a crosswind.

I see poster after poster saying “well, trade up and draft a Mahomes!” Or “Lamar went at 32! Let’s do that!”

It’s really freaking hard. Harder than any of us can imagine

The reason I mention getting to number one is because that’s the one sure fire way to hedge your bet. You get to pick whoever you want and don’t have to worry about what other teams are doing and you get what is usually perceived to be a franchise level QB

anything less is just rolling the dice

show me a way to get the #1 and I’ll be on board with drafting a QB and jettisoning Dak. Any plans that revolve around capturing lightning in a bottle with the third or fourth best rated QB on the board and I’m going to have to think real long and hard about the odds of me ending up with someone equal to or better than Dak.

Here’s the list again.

How many of these are better than Dak?
Of those who are better, where were they taken?

The number of QB’s who don’t pan out is really high. Only two of the past five years even have a QB that is or will be elite unless you are betting on Goff or Wentz.

All I’m saying is it’s hard and really risky. There are fans who wouldn’t mind drafting a QB in the first round every year or two hoping to strike gold but risking a trail of wasted drafts behind them.

I’m not that fan.

2015
Winston - 1
Mariota - 2
Grayson - 75
Mannion - 85

2016
Goff - 1
Wentz - 2
Lynch - 26
Hackenberg - 51
Brissett - 91
Kessler - 93

2017
Trubisky - 2
Mahomes - 10
Watson - 12
Kizer - 52
Webb - 87
Beatherd - 104

2018
Mayfield - 1
Darnold - 3
Allen - 7
Rosen - 10
Jackson - 32
Rudolph - 76

2019
Murray - 1
Jones - 6
Haskins - 15
Lock - 42
Grier - 100

Most of the first rounders in the past 3 drafts have established themselves as starters (9 of 11). All are much cheaper than Dak and some are significant upgrades. Seems like a very good strike rate to me.

If it's so difficult to find a franchise QB, how come most NFL teams have one?

One thing is certain - you'll never find one if you dont try.
 

Kwyn

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Most of the first rounders in the past 3 drafts have established themselves as starters (9 of 11). All are much cheaper than Dak and some are significant upgrades. Seems like a very good strike rate to me.

If it's so difficult to find a franchise QB, how come most NFL teams have one?

One thing is certain - you'll never find one if you dont try.

I agree that at some point every team has to hire the bullet and devote most of their energy to finding a new franchise QB

here’s the list you referenced
2017
Trubisky - 2
Mahomes - 10
Watson - 12

2018
Mayfield - 1
Darnold - 3
Allen - 7
Rosen - 10
Jackson - 32

2019
Murray - 1
Jones - 6
Haskins - 15

How many of those would you start over Dak?

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson. I’m not sold yet on any of the others

Of the entire list of first rounders, none of them make less than Dak. They all actually made significantly more.

Next year, Mahomes will become the highest paid player in NFL history. You’re looking at 200m at 40 per. Watson won’t be far behind.

Wilson is already at 35m

in 21, all four of the 2018 QB’s, if they are still starting, will be making close to or more than 30m. Jackson could pass Mahomes

Murray could reset the market again in 22 depending on how he performs

Talking about how much a QB deserves is often just idle conversation. They deserve what the market will bear and the price is skyrocketing every year

For everyone who thinks that Dak will be getting away with murder for signing at 32m, I just have to say “wait and see” because in two years, 32m may well be middle of the pack for starters not on their rookie deal

there is an argument to changing quarterbacks every four years and just going with a rookie every time your QB comes up for their contract and that’s certainly a strategy that can be discussed ... but only here. NFL teams look to find a “good enough” franchise QB and then lock them in for as long as they can.

Remember, Alex Smith was in like his 13th season when KC made a move to draft a rookie QB. A lot of times people make it sound like they benched a young franchise QB and rolled the dice on Mahomes. It made sense for a team in their situation to look in a different direction when they have a good but not great 35 year old QB.

mid Dak was middle of the pack and 32 years old I might be more inclined to consider blowing it up at QB but not now and not with this team
 

csirl

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here’s the list you referenced
2017
Trubisky - 2
Mahomes - 10
Watson - 12

2018
Mayfield - 1
Darnold - 3
Allen - 7
Rosen - 10
Jackson - 32

2019
Murray - 1
Jones - 6
Haskins - 15

How many of those would you start over Dak?

On a value for money/bang for your buck basis probably 7.

Its not all about talent - you have to consider the price. You can upgrade your team in other areas with the money saved.
 

Chuck 54

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Don't look now, but ESPN lists Dak at the #1 free agent target out there if we let him hit the market.
"If a 27-year-old quarterback coming off a 4,902-yard season ever reached the open market, he would be swarmed."

And if you put the franchise tag on a QB, you are killing your team....he will sign a deal this off-season....bank it.
 

Chuck 54

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If it's for a franchise QB, the whole draft if that's what it took. The position is that important.

But why does it have to be #1? You keep moving the goalposts. None of the QB's we were discussing were #1 overall. The Chiefs didn't sell their souls and gave up two firsts and a 3rd to get Mahomes. I do that all day for a shot at a franchise QB.
The reason teams don't give up their draft capital often for a franchise QB is because you never know what they will be. Too many can't miss QB prospects have gone bust. It is the surest way to kill your team talent for years.
 

csirl

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We're seeing an interesting shift occuring in the NFL in the past 3 years. One third plus (if you count Lock, Minshew etc who are not first rounders) of the starting QBs have come into the league in the past 3 years. This is a huge % turnover.

It seems the model is to draft QBs early and get them starting asap. Get as much value out of the rookie contract.

If you find an elite QB, you extend them. Otherwise you get rid of them and start again. We're seeing relatively young vets who are ex-starters being disposed off. Tannehill & Bortles are good examples. Mariota looks like hes next. Some of these disgarded vets are temporarily recycled on modest short term deals. But otherwise its rinse and repeat re: getting a first rounder - expect most starter vacancies in 2020 to be filled via the draft.
 
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