It's time for a brutally honest roster talent evaluation

johneric8 said:

I honestly can't evaluate this roster until a new coach comes in. Garrett was lame duck all of last year because the team knew he was going to get let go. I watched so many clips of players running off the field ignoring his high five attempts I actually felt sorry for him. All the players that we complain about could potentially look totally different with a different diet and mindset. Take tristen hill for example, I'm willing to bet that he is already visiting the Panchos buffet at least 3 times a week getting his girth where it needs to be. Once he puts on some more flab and coached up he probably will end up in the pro bowl... Lets just all relax and stop with the over evaluations because none of us are good enough to sniff a GM job.

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Are you forgetting you are on a fan message board where the whole point of it is evaluations and assessments? Why did you click on this thread if you're not into that?

Kaiser said:

I paid attention. Jerry has been making NFL front office decisions for 30 years. Jerry is Jerry but the keyboard warriors here wanted DLaw cut after calling him a bust.

"Inane" is people who have never met an NFL player outside a shopping mall pontificating that they know better.

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No, you used Jerry's HOF induction as the reason he knows better than us. That is inane.

Bobhaze said:

Mike McCarthy is a good hire. He gives us a realistic chance to maximize the talent we have, but perhaps more importantly, he gives us the opportunity to have a fresh set of eyes to evaluate this team’s roster. This team needs a really good offseason to evaluate its talent and upgrade where needed.

One of the weaknesses of our organization the last two decades is too often having a rosy estimate of our talent. The best NFL GMs are willing and able to look at players critically and determine how much tread is on the tire of a player and their true value in a hard salary cap.

I’m of the opinion that most of us as fans, and sadly even the Jones power brokers, tend to overvalue our talent. That’s normal for fans. It’s not normal for a good front office.

With that in mind, here are some positions and roster spots (in no particular order) I believe need some real scrutiny:

• LT- Truly one of the 3 most important positions on a team includes LT. From 2011-2018, Tyron Smith was one of the best players in the NFL and perhaps even the best player on the Cowboys roster. But back and knee injuries have made Ty Smith a lot more human. We need to consider that his days as a top LT are winding down.

• Safety- a no brainer. We haven’t had great talent at this position for too long. It’s time for this team to invest in a premium draft pick at a long time position of need.

• DT- a close second to safety in obvious need. Another position where we have settled for mid-late round draft picks or cheap retreads. It’s past time to address this position early in the draft.

• WR- Amari Cooper is a great talent and he certainly helped this team for two years. But I don’t believe in investing huge cap space on a position that is one of the easiest to find talent. Michael Gallup’s emergence also makes giving huge cap dollars to Cooper less attractive. I favor moving on from him and saving some cash.

• LB- I still believe a healthy LVE is a great talent. I’m a little concerned about Jaylon after his big contract but he’s still certainly a talent. This team still needs LB talent. We should probably say goodbye to Sean Lee though. Love the guy and what he has meant to this team. But it’s better to cut a guy a year early than too late.
  
  
• Guard- I’m not convinced that Connor Williams is a starter. He’s ok at best. Maybe Connor Macgovern is an upgrade and Williams just becomes a decent backup. But this position needs to be addressed.
  
  
• TE- Jason Witten needs to go. He’s a HOFer but he’s done. We need another TE probably from the draft to complement the emergence of Blake Jarwin.

There are probably more positions of need not mentioned above. But it’s certainly clear this team needs upgrades at multiple positions. In general, I would say the defense has the most glaring needs. But I also hope Coach Mac is able to bring a more discerning eye on this roster. And that we can stop being married to a player too long because “we love them”.

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Good post Bob

kskboys said:

No, you used Jerry's HOF induction as the reason he knows better than us. That is inane.

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And you claimed Jerry is in the HOF only because of "business contributions", which is laughable.

Future said:

I'ts not brutally honest if you don't do this for every team. The Cowboys have more balance and fewer holes than any team in the NFL.

Thinking this team isn't talented ignores the reality of the salary cap.

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Who said we weren’t talented? But a good front office is always looking to upgrade!

Jake said:

I can evaluate the results over the last 24 years:

6 head coaches
21 starting QBs
1 GM

Our GM sucks.

Garrett this, Garrett that, I don't know if half of this board is in denial or just rationalizing, but things weren't going along smoothly before Garrett. This trend predates him by over a decade.

I've lost track of how many "windows" we've allegedly had but I do know the Titans accomplished more in the last 10 days than the Cowboys have done this century.

No one other than Jerry Jones would hire Jerry Jones to be his GM.

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This is the uncomfortable truth many fans want to forget.

OL- Above average. No longer great this unit seems to be having injury issues up and down the line. Toss in the fact that LG seems to be a revolving door of inconsistency.

WR- Good. Sorry but having Cooper, Gallop, and Cobb (who I expect back). As your top 3 makes this unit one of the best in the league and helped Dak put up some great numbers.

TE- Bad. Sorry Witten is way to long in the tooth to be anything more than maybe a redzone weapon. Jarwin has shown flashes but he provides nothing in terms of blocking from what I’ve seen.

RB- Great. Yes we paid zeke but he still put up some top 5 running back numbers. Yet this time it was with a very nice change of pace back in Pollard. I think pollard is a great back who could have a 1k season on another team.

QB- Good. Sorry but Dak put up some crazy good numbers and showed that he still hasn’t reached his ceiling. I still wouldn’t pay him “top QB money” but he definitely deserves top 5 money.


Defense

DT- Bad. Sorry to those in that room but outside of M.Collins pass rush ability they are all awful. Throw in Bennett who is good for two offsides penalty’s a game and a future bust of a 2nd round pick in Hill(thanks Rod). This unit needs to grab a good FA and draft someone to start to inject some actual talent into it so we don’t get run through and have put LBs swimming through linemen.

LB- Bad. This is crazy for me to say as in the preseason I was so giddy about having a LB core of LVE, Smith and Lee. Yet, the injury bug, Father Time, and fat cat egos caught up to this unit. LVEs neck injury is worrisome, Lee seems like he finally might have lost two or three steps, and Smith seems more worried about selling his sunglasses than producing now that he got his contract.

DE- Average. Only thing keeping this from being bad was that Quinn was a major difference maker off the edge with his speed. Crazy to think how much he overshadowed our “War Daddy” in Tank the 100milloj dollar man. Also zero depth here... outside of flashes from JoeJack in the preseason seems like no one else made a difference. Even Zoner hero Dorrance Armstrong.

DB. Awful. Corners and safety’s were a joke again this year. Right near the bottom on takeaways and always seemed to be giving up big plays. Idk how many 3rd and a mile we gave up but felt like a record.

STs- Kicking and punting were an absolute joke. Worst in the league.

Bobhaze said:

Mike McCarthy is a good hire. He gives us a realistic chance to maximize the talent we have, but perhaps more importantly, he gives us the opportunity to have a fresh set of eyes to evaluate this team’s roster. This team needs a really good offseason to evaluate its talent and upgrade where needed.

One of the weaknesses of our organization the last two decades is too often having a rosy estimate of our talent. The best NFL GMs are willing and able to look at players critically and determine how much tread is on the tire of a player and their true value in a hard salary cap.

I’m of the opinion that most of us as fans, and sadly even the Jones power brokers, tend to overvalue our talent. That’s normal for fans. It’s not normal for a good front office.

With that in mind, here are some positions and roster spots (in no particular order) I believe need some real scrutiny:

• LT- Truly one of the 3 most important positions on a team includes LT. From 2011-2018, Tyron Smith was one of the best players in the NFL and perhaps even the best player on the Cowboys roster. But back and knee injuries have made Ty Smith a lot more human. We need to consider that his days as a top LT are winding down.

• Safety- a no brainer. We haven’t had great talent at this position for too long. It’s time for this team to invest in a premium draft pick at a long time position of need.

• DT- a close second to safety in obvious need. Another position where we have settled for mid-late round draft picks or cheap retreads. It’s past time to address this position early in the draft.

• WR- Amari Cooper is a great talent and he certainly helped this team for two years. But I don’t believe in investing huge cap space on a position that is one of the easiest to find talent. Michael Gallup’s emergence also makes giving huge cap dollars to Cooper less attractive. I favor moving on from him and saving some cash.

• LB- I still believe a healthy LVE is a great talent. I’m a little concerned about Jaylon after his big contract but he’s still certainly a talent. This team still needs LB talent. We should probably say goodbye to Sean Lee though. Love the guy and what he has meant to this team. But it’s better to cut a guy a year early than too late.
  
  
• Guard- I’m not convinced that Connor Williams is a starter. He’s ok at best. Maybe Connor Macgovern is an upgrade and Williams just becomes a decent backup. But this position needs to be addressed.
  
  
• TE- Jason Witten needs to go. He’s a HOFer but he’s done. We need another TE probably from the draft to complement the emergence of Blake Jarwin.

There are probably more positions of need not mentioned above. But it’s certainly clear this team needs upgrades at multiple positions. In general, I would say the defense has the most glaring needs. But I also hope Coach Mac is able to bring a more discerning eye on this roster. And that we can stop being married to a player too long because “we love them”.

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Good point that this is exactly why I have tempered my expectations for next year I couldn't believe in that poll that we did in the Forum that people had us going first second round of playoffs or even to the Superbowl? If we do great but I don't see that happening not with the roster turnover that's going to happen

Kaiser said:

And you claimed Jerry is in the HOF only because of "business contributions", which is laughable.

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It’s a fact he’s in the HOF as a “contributor”. Not as some football genius. I can’t name a single HOF voter who said JJ is in the hall for anything outside his contributions to the NFLs bottom line success. Jerry’s HOF credentials are all about his business acumen which is sizable.

Jake said:

I can evaluate the results over the last 24 years:

6 head coaches
21 starting QBs
1 GM

Our GM sucks.

Garrett this, Garrett that, I don't know if half of this board is in denial or just rationalizing, but things weren't going along smoothly before Garrett. This trend predates him by over a decade.

I've lost track of how many "windows" we've allegedly had but I do know the Titans accomplished more in the last 10 days than the Cowboys have done this century.

No one other than Jerry Jones would hire Jerry Jones to be his GM.

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Mmk, now do this for every organization.

The lack of context for points like this is stunning to me.

Bobhaze said:

I can’t name a single HOF voter who said JJ is in the hall for anything outside his contributions to the NFLs bottom line success.

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Please name them, with their comments that Jerry knows nothing about the football side. I'll wait.

Can we get a big and physical TE please???

Jerry Jones, the GM, has been in charge of a franchise that has gone over two decades without a conference champ game appearance and has accumulated 5 playoffs wins over that two decade run. 5 playoff wins. Total.

He's most definitely not in the Hall of Fame because of his GM acumen. He's in there because he was the owner of a franchise that won three SBs in the 90s and his contributions to the league in terms of marketing and business that made them, in part, the money making machine that they are.

Sydla said:

Jerry Jones, the GM, has been in charge of a franchise that has gone over two decades without a conference champ game appearance and has accumulated 5 playoffs wins over that two decade run. 5 playoff wins. Total.

He's most definitely not in the Hall of Fame because of his GM acumen. He's in there because he was the owner of a franchise that won three SBs in the 90s and his contributions to the league in terms of marketing and business that made them, in part, the money making machine that they are.

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He was the GM for a team that won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

That alone is basically a qualifier.

Future said:

He was the GM for a team that won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

That alone is basically a qualifier.

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Largely in title only. Johnson still had major control over player personnel issues and that was helped spur Johnson's exit (along with some other things).

Since Johnson's team got dismantled in the later 90s due to age, salary cap issues, etc. Jerry Jones, as the sole player personnel voice, has led the Cowboys to 5 playoff wins in two decades and zero conference title games.

He most certainly is not a great GM and he's most certainly not in the Hall of Fame because of his player personnel and football acumen.

Kaiser said:

Please name them, with their comments that Jerry knows nothing about the football side. I'll wait.

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Like I said...I can’t name anyone who would say he’s a great GM/Football man. You’re actually re-making my point. I can’t name anyone.

I thought we were SB ready. We just needed a better coach. So we went and got one. And Bonus. An entirely new coaching staff on top of it.

So what are you trying to say here, Bob? That we have serious issues at the player level and were never really SB ready to begin with?

Ahhhhhhhh, ****. The Peeps aren't gonna like that.

willia451 said:

I thought we were SB ready. We just needed a better coach. So we went and got one. And Bonus. An entirely new coaching staff on top of it.

So what are you trying to say here, Bob? That we have serious issues at the player level and were never really SB ready to begin with?

Ahhhhhhhh, ****. The Peeps aren't gonna like that.

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We should always make strong evaluations of roster talent every season. I’m certainly not saying we don’t have talent. We’ve just had a tendency to hang on to people too long whose better days had passed. The opposite of what teams like the pats have done.

Bobhaze said:

Mike McCarthy is a good hire. He gives us a realistic chance to maximize the talent we have, but perhaps more importantly, he gives us the opportunity to have a fresh set of eyes to evaluate this team’s roster. This team needs a really good offseason to evaluate its talent and upgrade where needed.

One of the weaknesses of our organization the last two decades is too often having a rosy estimate of our talent. The best NFL GMs are willing and able to look at players critically and determine how much tread is on the tire of a player and their true value in a hard salary cap.

I’m of the opinion that most of us as fans, and sadly even the Jones power brokers, tend to overvalue our talent. That’s normal for fans. It’s not normal for a good front office.

With that in mind, here are some positions and roster spots (in no particular order) I believe need some real scrutiny:

• LT- Truly one of the 3 most important positions on a team includes LT. From 2011-2018, Tyron Smith was one of the best players in the NFL and perhaps even the best player on the Cowboys roster. But back and knee injuries have made Ty Smith a lot more human. We need to consider that his days as a top LT are winding down.

• Safety- a no brainer. We haven’t had great talent at this position for too long. It’s time for this team to invest in a premium draft pick at a long time position of need.

• DT- a close second to safety in obvious need. Another position where we have settled for mid-late round draft picks or cheap retreads. It’s past time to address this position early in the draft.

• WR- Amari Cooper is a great talent and he certainly helped this team for two years. But I don’t believe in investing huge cap space on a position that is one of the easiest to find talent. Michael Gallup’s emergence also makes giving huge cap dollars to Cooper less attractive. I favor moving on from him and saving some cash.

• LB- I still believe a healthy LVE is a great talent. I’m a little concerned about Jaylon after his big contract but he’s still certainly a talent. This team still needs LB talent. We should probably say goodbye to Sean Lee though. Love the guy and what he has meant to this team. But it’s better to cut a guy a year early than too late.
  
  
• Guard- I’m not convinced that Connor Williams is a starter. He’s ok at best. Maybe Connor Macgovern is an upgrade and Williams just becomes a decent backup. But this position needs to be addressed.
  
  
• TE- Jason Witten needs to go. He’s a HOFer but he’s done. We need another TE probably from the draft to complement the emergence of Blake Jarwin.

There are probably more positions of need not mentioned above. But it’s certainly clear this team needs upgrades at multiple positions. In general, I would say the defense has the most glaring needs. But I also hope Coach Mac is able to bring a more discerning eye on this roster. And that we can stop being married to a player too long because “we love them”.

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Good luck with all of that Bob. I expect Jerry to continue promoting and over hyping his product.

Mikes here to make the most of it not necessarily question it. For example what if he thought Dak was over rated.

Jerry thinks he has enough talent besides a couple tweaks. Just needs someone to maximize it.

We have a new HC and staff not GM and front office.

Kaiser said:

And you claimed Jerry is in the HOF only because of "business contributions", which is laughable.

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Not laughable at all..........Jerry made it because of the contributions to the NFL as owner NOT for what he's done as GM for the Cowboys