HOF - Cliff Harris in; Drew Pearson not

DuncanIso

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The thing that these guys have to overcome is that there's a pretty big backlog of Cowboys players. It could be Drew, but how is Chuck Howley not in the Hall of Fame? Or Ralph Neely? There were only 2 players on the 1970s All-Decade Team who didn't make it. And they were both Cowboys.

Edit: Looking it up, that last bit seems to be inaccurate. But it's not many.

and George Andrie. People forget about these guys.
 

DuncanIso

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Just going to throw this out there since Cliff Harris is getting a lot of attention.

If you're a Boys fan, and especially if you're too young to have watched the 70's dynasty, this is a great book about those years.

It's a fun read for all Cowboys fans. I wish more players from the 90's would write these books, but from everything I hear about the partying on that team, they may have to wait until people die.

tales-from-the-dallas-cowboys-sideline-9781613218907.jpg

thanks for sharing! Gotta get this book.
 

atlantacowboy

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Drew Pearson
489 receptions
7,822 yards
48 TD
4x Pro Bowler
3x 1st Team All Pro
1x 2nd Team All Pro
Made the Hail Mary Catch
1970's All Decade Team

Lynn Swann
336 receptions
5,462 yards
51 TD
3x Pro Bowler
1x 1st Team All Pro
2x 2nd Team All Pro
Super Bowl MVP
1970's All Decade Team

Lynn Swann made the Hall of Fame in 2001. Drew Pearson still isn't in. They both have similar resumes (Swann played two less seasons). Let him in.

Right, this just proves the HOF is more of stats game for some guys than others. But, Lynn had those iconic super bowl catches and owns 4 super bowl rings. The guys in the 70's just didn't pile up offensive stats and that has a lot to do with the rules of the game at the time. You can't make a strong stats argument for Drew using BUT he was an iconic player and obviously one of the best of his generation.
 

mrmojo

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This is the NFL hall of fame, not the MLB hall of fame of stats...
 

DallasEast

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even ChuckHowley can’t get in.

Good luck with that.
The first step for any player, coach or contributor to be introduced into discussion by the Selection Committee is fan input via letters, etc. Lack of input by fans does zero to influence selectors who are not convinced certain players even deserve nomination.

Howley's continued exclusion from the Hall is a good point. However, fan apathy does Howley and other players a disservice by creating little or no perceptible appreciation towards making them part of discussion.
 

DallasEast

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This is the NFL hall of fame, not the MLB hall of fame of stats...
^ This is one of the only two relevant points-of-discussion concerning players getting voted into the Hall. The ironic thing is too many selectors also use statistics primarily to push the players they want enshrined into the Hall and that is not their assigned job and responsibility.

The other relevant point is specific to Drew Pearson himself. At the time, the Selection Committee named Pearson as one of the best NFL players of the 1970's. That is irrefutable fact. Being named to an all-decade team does not necessitate any player will be inducted into the Hall though.

However, the fact, almost every member of Pearson's all-decade team has been inducted into the Hall, established whatever criteria for fame allotted to a player by a past Selection Committee, has been acceptable to recent Selection Committee members. Pearson and several other teammates of the 1970s all-decade team are exceptions held by the recent/current Selection Committee UNTIL they judge otherwise. Harold Carmichael is the latest example of this goalpost constantly moving exception.

The irrationally should be addressed sooner than later. There is zero need for former players, coaches or contributor, who have been RECOGNIZED by a past Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee as the pinnacle of fame during their time, to die before a current selection committee finally sets their goalposts in concrete.

It is an unfair, unwarranted, illogical and basely cruel practice. It should be corrected. Players like Pearson should enjoy their moment of glory like his peers per the standard whatever particular selection committee had already judged them to be.
 

KJJ

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You almost wonder if this was payback for Pearson coming down hard on Eagle fans a couple years ago at the draft. Especially with the old Philadelphia Eagle Harold Carmichael getting the nod ahead of him. It’s pretty clear that some on the Hall of Fame committee don’t like Pearson. That rant at the draft probably created more enemies for him.
 

Number1

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for those who never saw Cliff play

he was as fierce as they come and one of the hardest hitting players of all time

his style of violent play couldn't exist under current rules - but he took great angles and had serious hands

no disrespect to Drew, but IMO Cliff was the better player
 

DallasEast

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You almost wonder if this was payback for Pearson coming down hard on Eagle fans a couple years ago at the draft. Especially with the old Philadelphia Eagle Harold Carmichael getting the nod ahead of him. It’s pretty clear that some on the Hall of Fame committee don’t like Pearson. That rant at the draft probably created more enemies for him.
I respectfully disagree. Pearson retired in 1983 after Hall of Fame selectors named him to the 70's NFL All-Decade Team. Pearson went off on the Eagles during the 2017 Draft. During that 34-year span, selectors did not vote him as a finalist for Hall enshrinement. Not once. It took a special Blue Ribbon Centennial panel of selectors, comprised of 13 current Selection Committee members, and 12 knowledgeable non-committee advisors (including Bellichick), to get Pearson his only finalist vote three years after his Philadelphia rant.

The Selection Committee has dissed Pearson for nearly four decades. It is not something they have done only recently in my opinion.
 

KJJ

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I respectfully disagree. Pearson retired in 1983 after Hall of Fame selectors named him to the 70's NFL All-Decade Team. Pearson went off on the Eagles during the 2017 Draft. During that 34-year span, selectors did not vote him as a finalist for Hall enshrinement. Not once. It took a special Blue Ribbon Centennial panel of selectors, comprised of 13 current Selection Committee members, and 12 knowledgeable non-committee advisors (including Bellichick), to get Pearson his only finalist vote three years after his Philadelphia rant.

The Selection Committee has dissed Pearson for nearly four decades. It is not something they have done only recently in my opinion.

Yesterday it was reported he would get in. He sure seemed to think he was going to get in, having family and friends gathered ready to celebrate. I know he’s been dissed for years but the rug appeared to be pulled right out from under him yesterday. He never saw it coming. It’s almost as if he was misled.
 

DallasEast

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that's saying rather kindly

they put in 5 players a year ... how does a 1st All Decade Player not get it?

it's Cowboy hatred
I will not suggest conspiracy or bias. This time. However, I will say the Centennial class was expanded to 15 slots in addition to the five modern day players who are voted in solely by the selection committee. Ten of the 15 slots were for senior players only. The expanded field is likely the explanation why they voted Harris in.

Harris retired in 1979. Pearson retired four years later in 1983. Both were 1st team All-Decade members. If time is truly relative to the committee's Wait-Until-We-Put-You-In mindset, Pearson should get inducted in the next four years. As Sargeant Murtaugh once said, "That's pretty bleeping thin." It is solely a guess on my part but there is no discernible rhyme or reason often behind the committee's voting patterns.

And even if my guess is right, Pearson must get 80% of the committee's final vote to get in. The 80% vote was waived for only this year to get 20 finalists enshrined into the Hall. What are Pearson's chances of getting in when he has never gotten to the finalist round in REGULAR years? This will be an interesting and frustrating watch. Hope Pearson (and I) live long enough to see it done right.
 

OmerV

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^ This is one of the only two relevant points-of-discussion concerning players getting voted into the Hall. The ironic thing is too many selectors also use statistics primarily to push the players they want enshrined into the Hall and that is not their assigned job and responsibility.

The other relevant point is specific to Drew Pearson himself. At the time, the Selection Committee named Pearson as one of the best NFL players of the 1970's. That is irrefutable fact. Being named to an all-decade team does not necessitate any player will be inducted into the Hall though.

However, the fact, almost every member of Pearson's all-decade team has been inducted into the Hall, established whatever criteria for fame allotted to a player by a past Selection Committee, has been acceptable to recent Selection Committee members. Pearson and several other teammates of the 1970s all-decade team are exceptions held by the recent/current Selection Committee UNTIL they judge otherwise. Harold Carmichael is the latest example of this goalpost constantly moving exception.

The irrationally should be addressed sooner than later. There is zero need for former players, coaches or contributor, who have been RECOGNIZED by a past Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee as the pinnacle of fame during their time, to die before a current selection committee finally sets their goalposts in concrete.

It is an unfair, unwarranted, illogical and basely cruel practice. It should be corrected. Players like Pearson should enjoy their moment of glory like his peers per the standard whatever particular selection committee had already judged them to be.
What's the problem with Carmichael getting in? I know he wasn't on the all decade team of the 1970's, but he had big years in the early 1980's as well.
 

DallasEast

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Yesterday it was reported he would get in. He sure seemed to think he was going to get in, having family and friends gathered ready to celebrate. I know he’s been dissed for years but the rug appeared to be pulled right out from under him yesterday. He never saw it coming. It’s almost as if he was misled.
I have not read a lot about the entire situation. I do know PFHOF president David Baker (understandably) had access to final vote tabulations. He used it to his advantage, surprising Bill Cowher and Jimmy Johnson ahead of the remaining 13 senior finalists.

The question that keeps bouncing around in my head is when exactly did the Hall arrange its video feed inside Pearson's home? Was the feed setup before Baker knew the results? Or was it afterwards? I hope it was not the latter.

EDIT: "not"
 
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DallasEast

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What's the problem with Carmichael getting in?
Good question. [EDIT] Just re-read the question. I do not have a problem with Carmichael getting voted in. I did have a problem with the delay the committee enforced upon him.
I know he wasn't on the all decade team of the 1970's, but he had big years in the early 1980's as well.
Carmichael was a second teamer on the 1970s NFL All-Decade Team. Many of his second team peers had already been inducted into the Hall before him.

What Carmichael did in the 1980's matters to some but not to me. He did enough in the 1970's for the selection committee at the time to be name to an all-decade team. Most of his peers on the all-decade team got in. Carmichael finally got in. I have a better question...

"Why is Carmichael's fellow 2nd teamer Harvey Martin not in the Hall of Fame yet?"
 

OmerV

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Good question. [EDIT] Just re-read the question. I do not have a problem with Carmichael getting voted in. I did have a problem with the delay the committee enforced upon him.
Carmichael was a second teamer on the 1970s NFL All-Decade Team. Many of his second team peers had already been inducted into the Hall before him.

What Carmichael did in the 1980's matters to some but not to me. He did enough in the 1970's for the selection committee at the time to be name to an all-decade team. Most of his peers on the all-decade team got in. Carmichael finally got in. I have a better question...

"Why is Carmichael's fellow 2nd teamer Harvey Martin not in the Hall of Fame yet?"
I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was a problem that Carmichael got in instead of Drew because he wasn't all decade 1st team like Drew.

I suspect Harvey isn't in because his drug and other personal problems shortened the number of top years he had, and has hurt the way he is perceived by HOF voters. Same reason he isn't in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.
 

KJJ

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The question that keeps bouncing around in my head is when exactly did the Hall arrange its video feed inside Pearson's home? Was the feed setup before Baker knew the results? Or was it afterwards? I hope it was not the latter.

EDIT: "not"

If it was the latter than he was being set up to be embarrassed. That video was tough to watch but I know they got a kick out of it in Philly.
 

DallasEast

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I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was a problem that Carmichael got in instead of Drew because he wasn't all decade 1st team like Drew.
Some may differentiate between 1st and 2nd team. I do not, although I might place slightly more emphasis on first teamers. All-decade teams represent the best representation of the NFL during that particular era out of thousands of possible candidates.

If I have a problem, it is the extended delay in getting anyone listed on an all-decade team into the Hall. Allow me to repeat myself. "Anyone". Ray Guy retired in 1986. He was selected to the Hall in 2014. Some people look down on punters, placekickers, etc. Some of these guys, like Ray Guy (pun intended), are the best of the best. It was just as criminal making Guy wait as long as he did as Pearson continues to me in my book.
I suspect Harvey isn't in because his drug and other personal problems shortened the number of top years he had, and has hurt the way he is perceived by HOF voters. Same reason he isn't in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.
Members have one or two popular sayings whenever they click on a thread and the content is exactly what they expected beforehand. If possible, I would tell both the selection committee and Jerry Jones to 'Get over' or 'Let go' of their problem with Harvey Martin. Martin retired in freaking 1983. It's 2020. Certain selectors and Jones should put particular body parts inside a nutcracker and have a seizure, if anyone were to ask for my thoughts on the matter that is.
 

mrmojo

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Is OJ still in the HOF? Bobby Layne, Paul Hornung, Bob Hayes....all had issues, OJ to say the least. Alex Karras a new inductee was suspended a year for gambling on football..... so Harvey Martin's issues should not be a determining factor of him getting into the HOF in my opinion.
 
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