3-4, 4-3, who cares in the modern NFL

DasSchnitzel

DasSchnitzel

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Everyone's running lots of nickel these days.

Everyone's running a variety of fronts these days. Even the uncreative Marinelli ran 2, 3, 4 man fronts. A 2-5 front did well for us against NE in 2018, for example.

The Patriots are also, once again, innovating. This year they had this ameoba thing going on, where there were always 6 to 8 in the box and it was never clear who was doing what. Romo gushed all over it when calling their games, for example.

So, I dont think we need to concern ourselves so much with the "4-3 or 3-4" question. We'll be in nickel most of the time and we'll probably show a variety of looks. How much time will we really be in our base D?

DLaw is a good example. He spent a lot of time with his hand in the ground but he also stood up every now and then.

Am I wrong to view it this way? Does our base defense classification matter anymore? Tell me your thoughts.
 
pgreptom

pgreptom

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I think what a lot of people are wanting is the personnel groups that usually come with teams that run a 3-4... big bodies up front. Years of Marinelli has played a toll
 
Keithfansince5

Keithfansince5

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DasSchnitzel said:
Everyone's running lots of nickel these days.

Everyone's running a variety of fronts these days. Even the uncreative Marinelli ran 2, 3, 4 man fronts. A 2-5 front did well for us against NE in 2018, for example.

The Patriots are also, once again, innovating. This year they had this ameoba thing going on, where there were always 6 to 8 in the box and it was never clear who was doing what. Romo gushed all over it when calling their games, for example.

So, I dont think we need to concern ourselves so much with the "4-3 or 3-4" question. We'll be in nickel most of the time and we'll probably show a variety of looks. How much time will we really be in our base D?

DLaw is a good example. He spent a lot of time with his hand in the ground but he also stood up every now and then.

Am I wrong to view it this way? Does our base defense classification matter anymore? Tell me your thoughts.
Click to expand...
I don't recall Lawrence this year one time standing up at the line. If you have a screen shot of him doing it please post it. He may have, I just don't recall it.

All I personally care about is getting 1 perhaps 2 guys who can stuff the run first, then sack the QB second. We haven't had that since the early 90's.
 

JeffInDC

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:banghead:All I care about is NOT giving QB’s the same looks the entire game and making it easy for them to figure things out......whether your a Rookie or Elite QB.
 
MCMetal69

MCMetal69

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Pressuring other teams with exotic looks and moving guys around so the offense doesn't know what's coming or what the defense is playing is as important as finding over-sized loads to play DT.............................We could have had Siragusa and Donald playing DT for us and with our Marinelli vanilla scheme , offenses would have figured out how to move the ball anyway.........................................
 
coogrfan

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DasSchnitzel said:
Everyone's running lots of nickel these days.

Everyone's running a variety of fronts these days. Even the uncreative Marinelli ran 2, 3, 4 man fronts. A 2-5 front did well for us against NE in 2018, for example.

The Patriots are also, once again, innovating. This year they had this ameoba thing going on, where there were always 6 to 8 in the box and it was never clear who was doing what. Romo gushed all over it when calling their games, for example.

So, I dont think we need to concern ourselves so much with the "4-3 or 3-4" question. We'll be in nickel most of the time and we'll probably show a variety of looks. How much time will we really be in our base D?

DLaw is a good example. He spent a lot of time with his hand in the ground but he also stood up every now and then.

Am I wrong to view it this way? Does our base defense classification matter anymore? Tell me your thoughts.
Click to expand...

Truth. Base D in the modern NFL is nickel.
 

stilltheguru

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Saints didnt even run a 3-4 last year so i dont know why people assume Nolan will make us run it
 
KingintheNorth

KingintheNorth

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The OP is right, majority of defense is closer to a 4-2-5 look.

Two Interior DL
Two Edge
Two Linebackers
Two Safeties
Two Corners
One Slot or Nickel

On obvious or longer passing downs, one of the Interior DL is substituted with an Edge guy (depending on your personnel) and one of the Linebackers with a Safety or "Dime".
 
leeblair

leeblair

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DasSchnitzel said:
Everyone's running lots of nickel these days.

Everyone's running a variety of fronts these days. Even the uncreative Marinelli ran 2, 3, 4 man fronts. A 2-5 front did well for us against NE in 2018, for example.

The Patriots are also, once again, innovating. This year they had this ameoba thing going on, where there were always 6 to 8 in the box and it was never clear who was doing what. Romo gushed all over it when calling their games, for example.

So, I dont think we need to concern ourselves so much with the "4-3 or 3-4" question. We'll be in nickel most of the time and we'll probably show a variety of looks. How much time will we really be in our base D?

DLaw is a good example. He spent a lot of time with his hand in the ground but he also stood up every now and then.

Am I wrong to view it this way? Does our base defense classification matter anymore? Tell me your thoughts.
Click to expand...
It makes all the difference in the world. Personnel changes greatly from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
A team running the 3-4 has different parameters in the players they require. The makeup of the defensive line and linebacker corps is one built for speed.
The 4-3 is set up to control the line of scrimmage with different types of linebackers. They usually have a mixture of speed and strength that varies from the middle linebacker to the outside linebackers.
When you see a team getting run roughshod over it is usually a 3-4 team that is geared for the pass rush and pass defense.
The 4-3 holds the line better but depending on the linebacker corps they can get burnt in mismatches when the opponent puts emphasis on using their running back as a receiver.
So, yes; we should care which philosophy and scheme the Cowboys defense pursues, and who they choose to do so with.
 
DasSchnitzel

DasSchnitzel

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leeblair said:
It makes all the difference in the world. Personnel changes greatly from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
A team running the 3-4 has different parameters in the players they require. The makeup of the defensive line and linebacker corps is one built for speed.
The 4-3 is set up to control the line of scrimmage with different types of linebackers. They usually have a mixture of speed and strength that varies from the middle linebacker to the outside linebackers.
When you see a team getting run roughshod over it is usually a 3-4 team that is geared for the pass rush and pass defense.
The 4-3 holds the line better but depending on the linebacker corps they can get burnt in mismatches when the opponent puts emphasis on using their running back as a receiver.
So, yes; we should care which philosophy and scheme the Cowboys defense pursues, and who they choose to do so with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand the difference...

My point is that whichever label we give it, it's likely we are going to see both looks and then some.
 
coogrfan

coogrfan

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leeblair said:
It makes all the difference in the world. Personnel changes greatly from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
A team running the 3-4 has different parameters in the players they require. The makeup of the defensive line and linebacker corps is one built for speed.
The 4-3 is set up to control the line of scrimmage with different types of linebackers. They usually have a mixture of speed and strength that varies from the middle linebacker to the outside linebackers.
When you see a team getting run roughshod over it is usually a 3-4 team that is geared for the pass rush and pass defense.
The 4-3 holds the line better but depending on the linebacker corps they can get burnt in mismatches when the opponent puts emphasis on using their running back as a receiver.
So, yes; we should care which philosophy and scheme the Cowboys defense pursues, and who they choose to do so with.
Click to expand...

I think you missed the point.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-defensive-personnel-analysis

"Base" defense is, at this point, a term that needs replacing; it's simply no longer even remotely accurate. Nobody played base on the majority of their snaps in 2018; only two teams (the Broncos and Rams) even had it as plurality of their snaps. This isn't because plays are being equally distributed amongst formations, either; 25 teams spent more than half their defensive snaps in nickel defenses, and one (the Chargers) even spent more than half the time in dime packages. "Base" defense in the modern NFL is a five-man secondary; your nickel corner is a far more valuable player than your third linebacker or fourth lineman.
 
erod

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There are usually only 1 or 2 linebackers in the game anyway.
 
CF74

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If we don’t get some real DT’s then they need to run a 5-2...o_O
 
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