Teams are trying to convince themselves qb is good enough

Reid1boys · Jan 20, 2020

Runwildboys said:
If you won a SB, you're clearly good enough to win a SB.....or aren't you?

Ive tried to explain that point to him... he doesnt seem to get it.

KJJ · Jan 20, 2020

Runwildboys said:
If you won a SB, you're clearly good enough to win a SB.....or aren't you?

Not if you were carried there by your defense as was the case with Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Foles got lucky and became hot during the playoffs. He’s not that good and they found that out in Jacksonville.

KJJ · Jan 20, 2020

Reid1boys said:
How good is the chiefs running game if you remove all of Mahomes scrambling yards? How good is that Chiefs defense? Looks like Mahomes overcomes both pretty well.

Pat Mahomes is one of the great young talents we’ve seen at the QB position in many years. He’s a generational QB. The Chiefs defense is better than it was last year. They have some talent on that side of the ball. Their D was terrible last season and Mahomes couldn’t overcome it despite an MVP year.

Runwildboys · Jan 20, 2020

KJJ said:
Not if you were carried there by your defense as was the case with Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Foles got lucky and became hot during the playoffs. He’s not that good and they found that out in Jacksonville.

It doesn't matter. He was good enough to not give the game away, and allow the players around him to carry him to a win. He may not be a great QB, but the fact that his team won a SB while he was under center, by definition means he was good enough. It may seem like semantics, but it really isn't. He didn't blow the game, therefore he was good enough. Are there a lot of QBs who are better? Probably, but until they play in a SB, we'll never know if they can handle the pressure.

gimmesix · Jan 20, 2020

blueblood70 said:
we cant pay dak 34-40mil because he isnt Mahomes ..

We aren't going to pay Dak in that range because we expect him to be Mahomes but because it's the standard rate of a good enough quarterback.

Fans expect to buy a Mahomes for that money, but teams, while they would love to get a Mahomes, expect at best a Russell Wilson and at worst a Carson Wentz or Jared Goff.

Dak is in that range, and if we pay him closer to what Wilson received than what Wentz and Goff received, it will be because the price of doing business continues to go up with the cap.

KJJ · Jan 20, 2020

Runwildboys said:
It doesn't matter. He was good enough to not give the game away, and allow the players around him to carry him to a win. He may not be a great QB, but the fact that his team won a SB while he was under center, by definition means he was good enough. It may seem like semantics, but it really isn't. He didn't blow the game, therefore he was good enough. Are there a lot of QBs who are better? Probably, but until they play in a SB, we'll never know if they can handle the pressure.

Nick Foles is a system QB. He fit what they do in Philly. He wasn’t good with the Rams when he was traded there and he was dreadful in Jacksonville. Wouldn’t shock me if he ends up back with Philly. He always seems to end up back in Philadelphia.

CouchCoach · Jan 20, 2020

aikemirv said:
Yep, that's true. Rams made it to the Super Bowl last year on scheme. 49ers are getting there by scheme this year as well, and a good defense. The NFL will come around and bring them back to earth next year. Garrapolo will have to earn that big contract for them to get there again.

Garoppolo's contract ranks 8th right now. He will most likely be around 12 or 13 when the season starts, if not at 15. Brady, Brees and Rivers are up and Mahomes and Watson will probably get new deals instead of waiting for this to just keep climbing.

It's going to be mostly an even playing field because every team without some stud QB on a first year will pay and pay more than they could have ever imagined just 5 years ago. Romo signed his deal in 2013 and in 7 or 8 shorts years, the QB's pay will double. In that time, the cap has only increased by 50%.

The owners have no one to blame but themselves, they created this with their rules and acquiescing to salary demands for QB's.

PAPPYDOG · Jan 20, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
This is hilarious. People are saying or acting like if your team doesn't have Mahomes than they don't have a real QB or a good one. Someone else pointed out that Mahomes didn't win the Super Bowl last year and this year the 49ers with Garappolo who only threw EIGHT pass in the entire NFC championship game could beat Mahomes and the chiefs. A QB in a NFC championship game only threw 8 passes completing 6 or 75% of his passes and scored 37 points.

Maybe it's time to stop thinking that the QB is the thing that determines whether a team wins or loses and start to realize it's the entire team.
.

Then why does Dak want 35 million dollars a season?
Exactly!!

aikemirv · Jan 20, 2020

CouchCoach said:
Garoppolo's contract ranks 8th right now. He will most likely be around 12 or 13 when the season starts, if not at 15. Brady, Brees and Rivers are up and Mahomes and Watson will probably get new deals instead of waiting for this to just keep climbing.

It's going to be mostly an even playing field because every team without some stud QB on a first year will pay and pay more than they could have ever imagined just 5 years ago. Romo signed his deal in 2013 and in 7 or 8 shorts years, the QB's pay will double. In that time, the cap has only increased by 50%.

The owners have no one to blame but themselves, they created this with their rules and acquiescing to salary demands for QB's.

Understand what you are saying but to be an even playing field your QB has to perform to a certain level - otherwise you have to scheme to get to that level. We saw that this year with Goff. The scheme was not enough anymore and he could not perform up to the level necessary to get them even to the playoffs. I think you saw that in Dak's first year. Zeke was new and NFL teams had not adjusted to the Cowboys with him. Dak was performing well too. Then we saw the NFLl catch up to them in 2017, 2018 and 2019 and they could not match that 2016 level.

At some point the player has to rise above. Dak could not do that against top teams this year!

natedoug · Jan 20, 2020

“There is an old saying about the strength of the wolf is the pack, and I think there is a lot of truth to that. On a football team, it’s not the strength of the individual players, but it is the strength of the unit and how they all function together.”
-- Bill Belichick

natedoug · Jan 20, 2020

Power of leadership:

#1. Good players can’t overcome bad coaching. -- Bill Belichick

The above quote is one of his most challenging. Team performance is leadership’s responsibility. No excuses allowed.

Leaders who take 100% responsibility for the team:

Deal with under performers quickly.
Expect team members to support each other.
Bring tough issues into the light.
Measure what matters and display it publicly.
Find roles where team members leverage their strengths for success.
Own failure and honor success.
Listen deeply.

OmerV · Jan 20, 2020

Reid1boys said:
This is great. Collin hit it on the head. He says that half the teams in the league are trying to convince themselves that their QB is good enough. The bears...... yep. Remember the chiefs with Smith? The would say he is good enough... and as Colin said... no he isnt.

And here we are trying to convince ourselves Dak is good enough. Did you watch Mahomes? Sad part is what else do you do?

This is the key. Sure most teams would love to have a Mahomes, but they aren't just there to be had. Hell, we still talk about Rodgers, Brees and Brady among the small handful of elite QBs even though they were all drafted 15-20 years ago. That's because even over a 20 time span there haven't been many QB's that have stepped up to that level. If teams can't find them over 15-20 years, they can't expect to just go find them whenever they want.

Playmaker247 · Jan 20, 2020

That’s like saying Lebron James is the standard......Yea good luck with that

gjkoeppen · Jan 20, 2020

PAPPYDOG said:
Then why does Dak want 35 million dollars a season?
Exactly!!

First off I know this is going to come as a complete surprise to you but QB contract amounts go up EVERY year. The reason there is a rookie wage scale and cap now is because the rams signed Sam Bradford to more money as a rookie than 9 starters on other teams made. The QB position is the most important position on the field and because of that their salary amounts go up and go up higher than any other position. Every year there are fans of teams that say there is no way their team should pay X amount for their QB but the fact is salaries go up. You and others have to stop thinking that salaries stay the same and what was paid last season or the season before is what the current season will be. If the owners were smart they would get one thing in their next CBA and that is no players contract can exceed X percent of the teams cap amount. Now I'm not say available cap I'm say cap amount. All teams get the same amount and no players contract can exceed X percent of that amount. Now the cap keeps going up but at a slower rate than what QB contract rise and if they set the percentage low enough it today's contracts could be over that percentage.
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Bigdog · Jan 20, 2020

IheartRomo said:
Totally agree with you. I'm simply talking about his level of play at this point time. It's a level that very few have ever reached for a 2 stretch season. Of course, he'll need longevity.

I wasn’t trying to attack you and sorry if it came out that way. Your right Mahomes is playing on a different level than most qbs in the league. I love how he just flick his wrist and the ball goes 60 yards on target. He is very exciting to watch.

gjkoeppen · Jan 20, 2020

natedoug said:
Power of leadership:

#1. Good players can’t overcome bad coaching. -- Bill Belichick

The above quote is one of his most challenging. Team performance is leadership’s responsibility. No excuses allowed.

Leaders who take 100% responsibility for the team:

Deal with under performers quickly.

Expect team members to support each other.

Bring tough issues into the light.

Measure what matters and display it publicly.

Find roles where team members leverage their strengths for success.

Own failure and honor success.

Listen deeply.

In a perfect world your first one would be great. The reality is on most teams the starters ARE the best they have so to pull starters as knee jerk reactions and put in players that aren't as talented or as good isn't making the team better. That problem rests with those scouting the players and what players they have not the coaches. Coaches can only do what they can with the talent they are given.

The second one is a given and i believe it is the case with most teams.

Your 4th one is moronic. The ability to coach and develop players and come up with winning game plans and deciding where problems may lay has less than zero to with what the public knows. Coaches don't work for the fans, they work for the team. The same with your 6th one. What and how a coach owns up with failures or honors success publicly doesn't matter. It's what hen does with his team in the looker room and meetings or during practices that matter.
.

blueblood70 · Jan 20, 2020

gimmesix said:
We aren't going to pay Dak in that range because we expect him to be Mahomes but because it's the standard rate of a good enough quarterback.

Fans expect to buy a Mahomes for that money, but teams, while they would love to get a Mahomes, expect at best a Russell Wilson and at worst a Carson Wentz or Jared Goff.

Dak is in that range, and if we pay him closer to what Wilson received than what Wentz and Goff received, it will be because the price of doing business continues to go up with the cap.

not me

RUN ")

McKDaddy · Jan 20, 2020

IheartRomo said:
I'm simply talking about his level of play at this point time. It's a level that very few have ever reached for a 2 stretch season. Of course, he'll need longevity.

Is longevity really required when discussing who is the best player? His talent is what it is. Doing it for one year or 40 years doesn't change his ability. When I say a player is better than another player I'm not talking longevity, I'm simply talking skills.

If you are talking NFL HOF, then yeah, I get where there needs to be some sustained level.

The discussions about Burrows & whether he should be in the LSU HOF for basically a season was intriguing. I come down on the side that he had an all time season & won them a national championship. ie, he delivered all you could ask for & more. So, the fact that he wasn't there for long doesn't diminish the performance he delivered IMO.

Bigdog · Jan 20, 2020

Reid1boys said:
considering he is in his 2nd season as a starter... how many SBs should he have? lol..... make no mistake, he is great, we all know it. You can say well he hasnt proven it yet blah blah blha... but that is because he is young.

I remember watching Michael Jordan.... we all knew he was GREAT within his 1st two seasons.... but it took him 6 before he won anything. Didnt change the fact he was GREAT!

Yes he is very good and like you said he has only been in the league for 2 years. Hopefully he can stay healthy. There have been a lot good athletes whose career have been cut short due to injuries. We will never know what they could have been.

cmoney23 · Jan 20, 2020

IheartRomo said:
Mahomes is the standard for good enough? He is one of the greatest to ever play the position. You do not need a Patrick Mahomes to win - it simply helps tremendously. Banking on getting your hands on a Mahomes-type player is foolish. You're far more likely to find a different formula for winning than to find Patrick Mahomes.

This^^^

Teams are trying to convince themselves qb is good enough

Reid1boys

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KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind

CouchCoach

PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!

aikemirv

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natedoug

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OmerV

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Playmaker247

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gjkoeppen

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Bigdog

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