The Elite QB Farce

keysersoze · Jan 23, 2020

Streetwise said:
I think he has a woodrow for Jimmy G

Hahahahaha. That’s a clever way of describing it.

keysersoze · Jan 23, 2020

Reid1boys said:
Facts are stubborn. Obviously Brees, Rodgers, Brady... ALL of them cant win a SB EVERY SEASON... but one of them do. I put up the numbers... it is RARE that the team winning the SB didnt have a HOF type QB or a top of the line DEFENSE. Whoever wins the SB this year will have the best qb in football, or the best defsne in football.... AGAIN. Teams with a HOF qb win a SB about 65% of the time, teams with an awesome defense win about 25% of the time.... and then you have the foles and eli manning outliers about 10% of the time.

That is the FACT for the SB winners since 2000. Losing teams in those SB normally had a QB that kicked arse for that year, ala Cam Newton who was the MVP of the league the year they went and lost a SB.

Deny it all you want, but facts is facts.

One main thing you left out of the equation is..... Most quarterbacks are considered Hall a Of Fame material AFTER WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP!!! Not before. So that Elite Quarterback bs is invalid. It’s just what people use as a barometer to either give unwarranted praise or to berate. We all know that quarterbacks are first measured by championships. Whether it’s fair or not.

Reid1boys · Jan 23, 2020

keysersoze said:
One main thing you left out of the equation is..... Most quarterbacks are considered Hall a Of Fame material AFTER WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP!!! Not before. So that Elite Quarterback bs is invalid. It’s just what people use as a barometer to either give unwarranted praise or to berate. We all know that quarterbacks are first measured by championships. Whether it’s fair or not.

uhm.... really? Eli has 2 titles, Iv enever heard a single person say he was "Great." We all know Mahomes is great, and he has zero titles.

G2 · Jan 23, 2020

Reid1boys said:
uhm.... really? Eli has 2 titles, Iv enever heard a single person say he was "Great." We all know Mahomes is great, and he has zero titles.

Still early to claim a HOFer.

keysersoze · Jan 23, 2020

Reid1boys said:
uhm.... really? Eli has 2 titles, Iv enever heard a single person say he was "Great." We all know Mahomes is great, and he has zero titles.

Which would you rather have as a fan? An elite quarterback with no rings? Or a very good quarterback with multiple Super Bowl wins?

keysersoze · Jan 23, 2020

Streetwise said:
Still early to claim a HOFer.

Way too early.

Reid1boys · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
Which would you rather have as a fan? An elite quarterback with no rings? Or a very good quarterback with multiple Super Bowl wins?

thats a silly question. We arent talking about rings... we are talking about the HOF.

Reid1boys · Jan 24, 2020

Streetwise said:
Still early to claim a HOFer.

nobody said he was a HOFer... but he has had TWO straight HOF worthy seasons.

Reid1boys · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
One main thing you left out of the equation is..... Most quarterbacks are considered Hall a Of Fame material AFTER WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP!!! Not before. So that Elite Quarterback bs is invalid. It’s just what people use as a barometer to either give unwarranted praise or to berate. We all know that quarterbacks are first measured by championships. Whether it’s fair or not.

those HOF type qbs normally get at least one title.... it isnt the ring that makes them HOF worthy, they are HOF worthy, and that is why they get rings.

There are plaenty of QBs that are in the HOF that dont have rings...... including one fo the greatest who ever played, Marino.

keysersoze · Jan 24, 2020

Reid1boys said:
thats a silly question. We arent talking about rings... we are talking about the HOF.

What’s the MAIN GOAL? That’s what I’m talking about. Because in all actuality we are really debating whether or not Dak can be the quarterback of a Championship Cowboys team. And we all know he can. The points are being made that most so called elite quarterbacks are only labeled elite AFTER winning a championship. Unless you’re someone who has an agenda for or against certain quarterbacks. Or you’re into fantasy football.

keysersoze · Jan 24, 2020

Reid1boys said:
those HOF type qbs normally get at least one title.... it isnt the ring that makes them HOF worthy, they are HOF worthy, and that is why they get rings.

There are plaenty of QBs that are in the HOF that dont have rings...... including one fo the greatest who ever played, Marino.

That’s bs and you know it. Marino barely even gets spoken of anymore. Same with Jim Kelley and Dan Fouts. They are almost forgotten because all they had was stats. No jewelry.

ESisback · Jan 24, 2020

If I were running the Cowboys, I’d be preparing RIGHT NOW for life without Dak. We can’t mortgage the future on one player, and should be targeting a veteran FA “as a backup”, but more importantly, to drive the bus for a potential contender. Why sacrifice the 2020 season? If Dak does one of those always damaging holdouts, we’d have an alternate plan. The Ravens won a SB with Joe Flacco, so...

Reid1boys · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
What’s the MAIN GOAL? That’s what I’m talking about. Because in all actuality we are really debating whether or not Dak can be the quarterback of a Championship Cowboys team. And we all know he can. The points are being made that most so called elite quarterbacks are only labeled elite AFTER winning a championship. Unless you’re someone who has an agenda for or against certain quarterbacks. Or you’re into fantasy football.

so lets see.... you telling me that Steve Young wasnt considered elite until after the 94 season? You are telling me Drew Brees wasnt considered elite until after he won a title? You telling me john Elway wasnt considered Elite until after he wona title? You telling me Dan marino wasnt considered elite until after ....... oh, I guess Marino wasnt considered elite?

Reid1boys · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
That’s bs and you know it. Marino barely even gets spoken of anymore. Same with Jim Kelley and Dan Fouts. They are almost forgotten because all they had was stats. No jewelry.

bahahahahhha..... thats like saying... Wilt Chamberlain is hardly ever spoken of..... Larry Bird is rarely mentioned any more, that Jim Brown is rarely spoken of.... no kidding, because they havent played for a very long time, and the current state of NFL has drastically changed, so Marinos amazing numbers are pretty avg today.

ESisback · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
That’s bs and you know it. Marino barely even gets spoken of anymore. Same with Jim Kelley and Dan Fouts. They are almost forgotten because all they had was stats. No jewelry.

NFL stands for “not for long”, and since the league reflects society, it’s getting more and more “short term memory” by the day. Respect for elders, nostalgia, reverence for legacy, etc.—all greeted with indifference or snarky sarcasm. However, when discussion of all time great QBs comes up, many of those names still come up.

That said, names like Tarkenton, Fouts, Kelley, etc. ARE getting smaller in the rear view...

ESisback · Jan 24, 2020

Reid1boys said:
bahahahahhha..... thats like saying... Wilt Chamberlain is hardly ever spoken of..... Larry Bird is rarely mentioned any more, that Jim Brown is rarely spoken of.... no kidding, because they havent played for a very long time, and the current state of NFL has drastically changed, so Marinos amazing numbers are pretty avg today.

Tesla, Einstein, Ben Franklin, etc. are CRAP, because they happened a long time ago!!

keysersoze · Jan 24, 2020

Reid1boys said:
so lets see.... you telling me that Steve Young wasnt considered elite until after the 94 season? You are telling me Drew Brees wasnt considered elite until after he won a title? You telling me john Elway wasnt considered Elite until after he wona title? You telling me Dan marino wasnt considered elite until after ....... oh, I guess Marino wasnt considered elite?

No they were not. Elite quarterbacks lift their teams to championships. They are the ones who don’t need great defenses or running backs, etc... Right? Isn’t that what ELITE means to you hypocrites?

keysersoze · Jan 24, 2020

ESisback said:
NFL stands for “not for long”, and since the league reflects society, it’s getting more and more “short term memory” by the day. Respect for elders, nostalgia, reverence for legacy, etc.—all greeted with indifference or snarky sarcasm. However, when discussion of all time great QBs comes up, many of those names still come up.

That said, names like Tarkenton, Fouts, Kelley, etc. ARE getting smaller in the rear view...

Right.... But Super Bowl Champions are remembered much longer. Am I right or wrong?

Chuck 54 · Jan 24, 2020

Reid1boys said:
uhm.... really? Eli has 2 titles, Iv enever heard a single person say he was "Great." We all know Mahomes is great, and he has zero titles.

No one here wants to admit it, but Eli is going to be in the HOF at some point. At times, he was a great QB, a championship QB. He retires holding almost all the NY Giant records, and they've had good QB's. He went to multiple probowls, won two super bowls, and he wasn't riding the coat tails of a defense or run game in either one. He beat Belichec and Brady twice in Super Bowls, once against that undefeated team with Randy Moss, and he was the SB MVP in both games. Both were come from behind victories, and he led the first team with a running game ranked last (32nd) and a defense ranked as low as 27th to win a Super Bowl.

He wasn't the best of his era, but he was an elite QB, especially in the playoffs.

ESisback · Jan 24, 2020

keysersoze said:
Right.... But Super Bowl Champions are remembered much longer. Am I right or wrong?

Oh you’re 100% right, although smart people will take Fouts or Marino over guys like Eli or Flacco any day! Football is a TEAM sport!

The Elite QB Farce

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Taco Engineer

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member