Eli Manning to retire

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

Doomsday said:
He is an above-average QB who had 2 great playoff runs led by a dominant defensive line. 4 probowl and 3 division titles in 16 years hardly screams greatness. Neither does .500 career win percentage.

I think everyone recognizes there are points that aren't in Eli's favor, which is why nobody is putting him in the elite of the elite category. But the reality is that there are QBs in the HOF that are not elite of the elite types. Moon and Fouts, for example, were .500 QBs that threw a boatload of INT's, and neither had any playoff success, much less ever won a Super Bowl (2 in Eli's case), but they both got in quickly after they became eligible. I suspect Eli won't get in quite as quickly, and that it might take several years after he becomes eligible to get in because the top level of career stats has increased since Fouts and Moon got in, but I think odds are very high that he will get in.

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

Xeven said:
Wonder if Garret will get giants to offer Dak $.

It's highly unlikely the Cowboys will leave Dak available to take offers from other teams, plus, the Giants aren't going to bail on a QB they spent the #6 overall pick on just a year ago.

CalPolyTechnique · Jan 24, 2020

Doomsday said:
He is an above-average QB who had 2 great playoff runs led by a dominant defensive line. 4 probowl and 3 division titles in 16 years hardly screams greatness. Neither does .500 career win percentage.

So where does that leave guys like Warren Moon and Dan Fouts?

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
So where does that leave guys like Warren Moon and Dan Fouts?

I think Eli fits into that category pretty well. His cumulative stats aren't quite as strong relative to the top career leaders as Fouts and Moon were at the time they retired, but they are still very high on the list and notably higher than Fouts and Moon, and he has the added bonus of much more playoff success than either.

uvaballa · Jan 24, 2020

LACowboysFan1 said:
Have to factor in his durability, as well, never missed a game due to injury, to me that's not really something he could control, but no doubt it'll factor in to the Hall voters considerations...

He was durable but I can’t remember a time I thought he was a top 5 QB. Only the best should get into the HOF.

BTW I’m one of the only Cowboy fans who said he was a big reason they won those two SBs. But he was also a reason they missed the playoffs most years he was there.

cowboysfan99 · Jan 24, 2020

Eli will get in the hall of fame eventually based on the those 2 SB wins. Minus those wins then I'd say he's Phillip Rivers who also shouldn't be in the hall of fame. The fact is that being clutch in big moments and winning championships matters when it comes to the hall of fame. He had two game winning championship drives and that pass to Tyree is a well known historic moment. It's just like Namath getting in for the guaranteed SB victory or our own Bob Hayes got in because defenses had to change the way they played because of him. Neither guy had the numbers, but history defining moments like that matter...which is why it's baffling that Carmichael got in over Pearson or Branch.

By the way, I'm on another sports board where they're discussing this and the QB who immediately came up that people don't think should be in the hall of fame is Aikman. The arguments are so ridiculous that I can only assume they hate the Cowboys. I never hear Jim Kelly's name come up and he had almost identical career completion percentage and career yards as Aikman, but he had 2 TDs and 7 INTs in 4 Super Bowl losses. Winning championships matters.

quickccc · Jan 24, 2020

a good overall career QB who had great memorable SB run and moments, but not a career Hall of Famer. ... imo

Has never been an All Pro, much less NFL league MVP.

this is not crème of the crop.... this is not Drew Brees, Brady, Warner, Favre, Montana, Young, or even his broham Peyton.

if people are basing Eli just off those two SB wins over Pats, then they would have to consider another solid career QB such as Jim Plunkett in that same HOF talk as he's won two SBs as well..
Neither one is not.

sean10mm · Jan 24, 2020

quickccc said:
if people are basing Eli just off those two SB wins over Pats, then they would have to consider another solid career QB such as Jim Plunkett in that same HOF talk as he's won two SBs as well..
Neither one is not.

The problem with this comparison is that Jim Plunkett didn't beat the Joe Montana/Bill Walsh 49ers teams twice, he beat Ron Jawarski and Joe Theismann lol.

He won Super Bowls against THE historic team of this generation, with the GOAT QB and HC, twice, and was Super Bowl MVP in both games.

quickccc · Jan 24, 2020

sean10mm said:
The problem with this comparison is that Jim Plunkett didn't beat the Joe Montana/Bill Walsh 49ers teams twice, he beat Ron Jawarski and Joe Theismann lol.

He won Super Bowls against THE historic team of this generation, with the GOAT QB and HC, twice, and was Super Bowl MVP in both games.

then yes, that caps a good NFL career, but totality wise that doesn't make it crème of the crop QB,(jmo) ...and Plunkett's two SB wins were against two legendary NFL head coaches in Dick Vermeil and Joe Gibbs.

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

sean10mm said:
The problem with this comparison is that Jim Plunkett didn't beat the Joe Montana/Bill Walsh 49ers teams twice, he beat Ron Jawarski and Joe Theismann lol.

He won Super Bowls against THE historic team of this generation, with the GOAT QB and HC, twice, and was Super Bowl MVP in both games.

There is also the fact Eli has more than double the career yards and TDs Plunkett has.

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

quickccc said:
then yes, that caps a good NFL career, but totality wise that doesn't make it crème of the crop QB, ...and Plunkett's two SB wins were against two legendary NFL head coaches in Dick Vermeil and Joe Gibbs.

Eli's SB wins were both over Bill Belichick, who is the most successful NFL coach of all time. As great as Vermeil and Gibbs were, claiming beating them somehow trumps beating Belichick just doesn't make sense.

quickccc · Jan 24, 2020

cowboysfan99 said:
Eli will get in the hall of fame eventually based on the those 2 SB wins. Minus those wins then I'd say he's Phillip Rivers who also shouldn't be in the hall of fame. The fact is that being clutch in big moments and winning championships matters when it comes to the hall of fame. He had two game winning championship drives and that pass to Tyree is a well known historic moment. It's just like Namath getting in for the guaranteed SB victory or our own Bob Hayes got in because defenses had to change the way they played because of him. Neither guy had the numbers, but history defining moments like that matter...which is why it's baffling that Carmichael got in over Pearson or Branch.

By the way, I'm on another sports board where they're discussing this and the QB who immediately came up that people don't think should be in the hall of fame is Aikman. The arguments are so ridiculous that I can only assume they hate the Cowboys. I never hear Jim Kelly's name come up and he had almost identical career completion percentage and career yards as Aikman, but he had 2 TDs and 7 INTs in 4 Super Bowl losses. Winning championships matters.

Rick Goose Gosslein is one of the senior members of the HOF voting committee, says the problem he thought was Cowboys already had two members being voted in,( Jimmie Johnson, Cliff Harris) and that normally is one too many, .. so they surely were not going to let THREE Cowboy members in the HOF in a single year alone.

quickccc · Jan 24, 2020

OmerV said:
Eli's SB wins were both over Bill Belichick, who is the most successful NFL coach of all time. As great as Vermeil and Gibbs were, claiming beating them somehow trumps beating Belichick just doesn't make sense.

I get that and like I said that caps a good overall NFL career, but those two latter great HC's are nuthin to sneeze at either.

kuyyo_morro · Jan 24, 2020

If Nick Foles wins 1 more SB or Joe Flacco wins 1 more S, will they get in too.

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

quickccc said:
.. that means those two great HC's are nuthin to sneeze at either.

I agree. But I think it's really an insignificant point with regard to HOF voting. Who the opposing coach is barely a thought with voters next to the fact a QB won Super Bowls at all.

Utimately, what favors Eli over Plunkett is not the Super Bowl wins. The Super Bowl wins clearly count with voters, but they are not a stand alone standard. Eli's candidacy has the added boost of him ranking 7th in career yards and TDs among QB's, and by comparison, Plunkett has less than 1/2 the totals Eli does.

OmerV · Jan 24, 2020

kuyyo_morro said:
If Nick Foles wins 1 more SB or Joe Flacco wins 1 more S, will they get in too.

lol - I don't think so.

Super_Kazuya · Jan 24, 2020

kuyyo_morro said:
If Nick Foles wins 1 more SB or Joe Flacco wins 1 more S, will they get in too.

I know right? It also goes to show how stupid the magic number concept is. Like you could literally alter the outcome of one game from a 15+ season career and Eli Manning would go from being a borderline HOFer to having basically no chance. Guys like Peyton Manning there is no one, two or whatever amount of games that sway his candidacy. It shows how flimsy a candidate Eli actually is.

Pape · Jan 25, 2020

Tussinman said:
A better example would be Big Ben (same touchdowns, same yards, 2 superbowls as well)

Guess what ? Yeah Ben will end up in the hall too......

all done with nearly 1,000 less pass attempts

LACowboysFan1 · Jan 25, 2020

quickccc said:
a good overall career QB who had great memorable SB run and moments, but not a career Hall of Famer. ... imo

Has never been an All Pro, much less NFL league MVP.

this is not crème of the crop.... this is not Drew Brees, Brady, Warner, Favre, Montana, Young, or even his broham Peyton.

if people are basing Eli just off those two SB wins over Pats, then they would have to consider another solid career QB such as Jim Plunkett in that same HOF talk as he's won two SBs as well..
Neither one is not.

Agreed, but what works against Plunkett is that he wasn't the starting quarterback in the seasons he won the SB, he came in after the starter got injured, and he was a backup for a lot of his career. Eli was the starter for years and years, which paradoxically works against him, because he had control of the team for the same years and years, and only had the 2 SBs and the few winning seasons...

LACowboysFan1 · Jan 25, 2020

Xeven said:
Wonder if Garret will get giants to offer Dak $.

No, Jones has shown flashes of very good play, Garrett will want to develop him and win SBs with him, at least in Garrett's mind.
And he knows Jerry is going to sign Dak, it may be like Zeke, after a hold out, but he'll get it done...

Eli Manning to retire

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