Dallas’ Two tight end goal line package

glimmerman

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Where on the field are you talking about? The 1? B/c then sure lol
Lmao. That’s where we were off. Lol. I didn’t mean the 20. Well maybe once from the 20. If the line up is right. But yeah I was talking about the 3 or closer.
 

Future

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Lmao. That’s where we were off. Lol. I didn’t mean the 20. Well maybe once from the 20. If the line up is right. But yeah I was talking about the 3 or closer.
Haha, ok that makes more sense. I was thinking just first and goal in general.
 

SSoup

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I saw that Aaron Hernandez Netflix doc the other day, and the flashbacks on Hernandez and Gronk playing together. What a wasted opportunity. That would have been more Super Bowls for the Pats. It goes on the same list of "What If?" with Jimmy and Jerry staying together.

Belichick did that because they were both freaks. Everyone tried to copy but no one has found that level of talent since. I know you're referring more to the goal line packages, but I'd rather go with 2 backs old school or three wideouts which are much easier to find.
Controversial statement: I don't think Hernandez was as great a player as people think they remember him being.

He was certainly good. But when you look at the stats...

He started out with a pretty good first season. 500 yards and 6 TDs? Pretty good. Nothing crazy. The most impressive thing about his season was his 12.5 yards per catch.

Then he followed that up with his only really, really good season. 900 yards and 7 TDs? Really, really good. Tom Brady threw for 5200 yards that year and it went almost entirely to their top 2 WRs and their top 2 TEs -- their 3rd WR didn't even crack 300 yards despite that prolific passing season. This was a strange season compared to most modern passing attacks.

Then he followed it up with a season where his production regressed quite a bit. 400-something yards and only 5 TDs? Those are both career lows. You can blame the accumulating stats dipping on the fact that he played 4 fewer games than he usually did (10 games instead of his normal 14) with injuries. But the fact is that he was a drastically much less effective player. His yards per catch fell 2 whole yards that season.

The yards per catch decline was a career-wide trend for him. 12.5 yards per catch as a rookie, then 11.5, then 9.5. His explosiveness was trending in the wrong direction.

When you watch the documentary and hear him talking about all the injuries taking their toll and all the drugs they had to pump him full of to keep him on the field, I think it's clear his health was heading in the wrong direction and he probably had very little chance of not getting cut before he played out that big extension he signed.
 

CowboysExchange

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Did any of you guys notice that over the last several years when we brought in two tight ends at the goal line and ran the ball the tight ends did literally nothing for it. At least when you go three wides it gave Zeke some room to run the ball. It seemed to me that over the past several years that was a huge fail.
We have a bunch of scrub tes who only excel against scrub teams. Thats why we blowout bad teams and struggle against good teams. Their scoring production never shows up against good teams and 1 playoff td in 16 yrs is trash when you had a top wr and rb on the roster for 5 plus years.

What good is a flat footed te who cant jump in the Red Zone??? Dez always had to be the go to guy because Witten and Escobar, Swaim, Hanna, schultz, and gathers couldnt go airborne!!!

TheSE 12 formations need to go away. We dont have an AARON HERNANDEZ TYPE TE AS OUR #1 MUCH LESS OUR #2 TE. HOW MANY OPPORTUNITIES HAVE WE WASTED ON THESE DUDS WHO HAVE NEVER MADE ANY GAME WINNING PLAYS?????

EVEN IN JARWINS 3 TD GAME IT WAS COLE BEASELY WHO MADE THE HEROIC GAME WINNING CATCH. LOL. THESE TES HAVE NO HEROIC ABILITIES AND THEY EVEN STINK AT BLOCKING AGAINST PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS SO ITS A NO BRAINER TO CUT BAIT.

JARWIN SHOWS SOME PROMISE BUT WHEN HE GOES AIRBORNE HE IS MISTAKE PRONE. IF WE NEED TO GO JUMBO WE SHOULD BE USING AN EXTRA OLINEMAN AND MAKE HIM ELIGIBLE. THEY COULD CATCH THOSE CHECKDOWN PASSES FOR 3 YARDS JUST AS EASY AS THESE DUDS AND CERTAINLY BLOCK BETTER.

#82 NEEDS TO GO AND WE NEED TO PICK UP A VETERAN PRESENCE WHO CAN GO UP AND CATCH A TD PASS IN THE RED ZONE AND SCORE. WEVE LIVED OFF THE HYPE OF THIS TE CORE. WEVE WATCHED THEM FAIL FOR 7PLUS YEARS. THEY ARE THE WEAKEST LINK. GOODBYE
 

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PIGS WILL FLY BEFORE WE WIN A PLAYOFF GAME WITH THESE TES DOMINATING PASSING SNAPS. JUST LIKE IVE BEEN PREACHING FOR 7 PLUS YEARS.

UNLESS WERE PLAYING MATT STAFFORD AND HE FUMBLES 2 PLAYS IN A ROW LMAO
 
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CowboysExchange

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NAME ONE TOP DEFENDER OUR TES HAVE DOMINATED IN 7 PLUS YEARS. AVG BLOCKERS HAVE NO BUSINESS PLAYING EVERY PASSING SNAP. EVERYDOWN PASSING PLAYS ARE DESIGNED FOR SUPERSTAR RECEIVERS NOT BLOCKERS BECAUSE YA CANT SCORE POINTS BLOCKING.

WE GIVE THIS 5 TD A YEAR TE CORE A FREE PASS FROM SCORING. GRONK WAS PUTTING UP 10 PLUS TDS EVERY YEAR BY HIMSELF DRAWING DOUBLE AND TRIPLE COVERAGE.

GO GET A GRONK OR AT LEAST A JARED COOK OR JIMMY GRAHAM. SOMEBODY WHO CAN JUMP MORE THAN 2 INCHES OFF THE GROUND AND CATCH PASSES IN THE AIR. LOL. THESE TES STINK. THEY ARE OVERINVOLVED FOR THEIR TALENT LEVEL AS RECEIVERS AS ALWAYS
 
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John813

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The Cowboys haven't found someone that could block as well as Hanna. Swaim was ok at it.

Jarwin isn't a plus blocker and Schultz imo isn't there yet.
 

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Controversial statement: I don't think Hernandez was as great a player as people think they remember him being.

He was certainly good. But when you look at the stats...

He started out with a pretty good first season. 500 yards and 6 TDs? Pretty good. Nothing crazy. The most impressive thing about his season was his 12.5 yards per catch.

Then he followed that up with his only really, really good season. 900 yards and 7 TDs? Really, really good. Tom Brady threw for 5200 yards that year and it went almost entirely to their top 2 WRs and their top 2 TEs -- their 3rd WR didn't even crack 300 yards despite that prolific passing season. This was a strange season compared to most modern passing attacks.

Then he followed it up with a season where his production regressed quite a bit. 400-something yards and only 5 TDs? Those are both career lows. You can blame the accumulating stats dipping on the fact that he played 4 fewer games than he usually did (10 games instead of his normal 14) with injuries. But the fact is that he was a drastically much less effective player. His yards per catch fell 2 whole yards that season.

The yards per catch decline was a career-wide trend for him. 12.5 yards per catch as a rookie, then 11.5, then 9.5. His explosiveness was trending in the wrong direction.

When you watch the documentary and hear him talking about all the injuries taking their toll and all the drugs they had to pump him full of to keep him on the field, I think it's clear his health was heading in the wrong direction and he probably had very little chance of not getting cut before he played out that big extension he signed.

HE WAS PUTTING UP ALL OF THOSE #1 NUMBERS AS THE #2 TE. BETTER PRODUCTION AS THE NUMBER #2 TE THAN OUR ENTIRE TE CORE FOR 7 YEARS. HE ALSO MADE GAME WINNING PLAYS.

BELECHEK USES ALOT MORE 10 AND 11 PERSONELL THAN 12. HE ONLY USES 12 FORMATIONS AGAINST BAD RUN DEFENSES AND IN RED ZONE SITUATIONS. HE HAD GRONK WHO COULD LINE UP ANYWHERE AND DOMINATE ON THE OUTSIDE AS A WR!!! OUR GUYS CANT PLAY OUTSIDE AND ARE LIMITED TO THE SLOT. DRAFT SOME TES WHO CAN GO UP AND GET A BALL. THAT SHOULD BE OUR FIRST PRIORITY SINCE WE DONT HAVE AN ALPHA DOG WR LIKE DEZ

WE REPLACED OUR YARDS BUT NOT SCORING PRODUCTION.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Did any of you guys notice that over the last several years when we brought in two tight ends at the goal line and ran the ball the tight ends did literally nothing for it. At least when you go three wides it gave Zeke some room to run the ball. It seemed to me that over the past several years that was a huge fail.

I would guess that this says more about the state of the TE in todays game, more then anything. Two TE packages on the Goal Line have been used for years and with success. Today, TEs don't get taught how to inline block much. They are all basically big, slow WRs. I think it says more about the game then anything.

JMO
 

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DID YALL SEE KITTLE AND KELCE IN THE SUPER BOWL. MAKING BIG CATCHES DOWNFIELD AND SCORING.

HAD KITTLE NOT GOT FLAGGED FOR OFFENSIVE PI THAT GAME WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH CLOSER. ITS SAD BECAUSE GARRAPOLO PUT THE BALL WHERE ONLY KITTLE COULD GET IT SO THE PI WAS POINTLESS. THAT CALL WAS A GAMECHANGER. IT COST THEM ALOT OF MOMENTUM AND POINTS GOING INTO HALFTIME.

COWBOY FANS PUT TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON BLOCKING. WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR BLOCKING WHEN YOURE DRAGGING A DOUBLE OR TRIPLE TEAM DOWN THE FIELD AND AWAY FROM THE BALL ON EVERY PLAY. LMAO. WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO OVERRATE THE BLOCKING AND UNDERRATE THE RECEIVING AND LAST TIME I CHECKED SCORING TRUMPS BLOCKING. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THESE TES CANT CATCH DEEP BALLS, GO UP AND GET 50/50 BALLS SO WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO OVERRATE BLOCKING. WHILE THEY SUCK AT RECEIVING. LOL
 
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Bullflop

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The Cowboys' two TE goal line package was a sterling example of inferior coaching. Our TEs simply weren't up to it at that juncture. :angry:
 

408Cowboy

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We have a bunch of scrub tes who only excel against scrub teams. Thats why we blowout bad teams and struggle against good teams. Their scoring production never shows up against good teams and 1 playoff td in 16 yrs is trash when you had a top wr and rb on the roster for 5 plus years.

What good is a flat footed te who cant jump in the Red Zone??? Dez always had to be the go to guy because Witten and Escobar, Swaim, Hanna, schultz, and gathers couldnt go airborne!!!

TheSE 12 formations need to go away. We dont have an AARON HERNANDEZ TYPE TE AS OUR #1 MUCH LESS OUR #2 TE. HOW MANY OPPORTUNITIES HAVE WE WASTED ON THESE DUDS WHO HAVE NEVER MADE ANY GAME WINNING PLAYS?????

EVEN IN JARWINS 3 TD GAME IT WAS COLE BEASELY WHO MADE THE HEROIC GAME WINNING CATCH. LOL. THESE TES HAVE NO HEROIC ABILITIES AND THEY EVEN STINK AT BLOCKING AGAINST PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS SO ITS A NO BRAINER TO CUT BAIT.

JARWIN SHOWS SOME PROMISE BUT WHEN HE GOES AIRBORNE HE IS MISTAKE PRONE. IF WE NEED TO GO JUMBO WE SHOULD BE USING AN EXTRA OLINEMAN AND MAKE HIM ELIGIBLE. THEY COULD CATCH THOSE CHECKDOWN PASSES FOR 3 YARDS JUST AS EASY AS THESE DUDS AND CERTAINLY BLOCK BETTER.

#82 NEEDS TO GO AND WE NEED TO PICK UP A VETERAN PRESENCE WHO CAN GO UP AND CATCH A TD PASS IN THE RED ZONE AND SCORE. WEVE LIVED OFF THE HYPE OF THIS TE CORE. WEVE WATCHED THEM FAIL FOR 7PLUS YEARS. THEY ARE THE WEAKEST LINK. GOODBYE
PIGS WILL FLY BEFORE WE WIN A PLAYOFF GAME WITH THESE TES DOMINATING PASSING SNAPS. JUST LIKE IVE BEEN PREACHING FOR 7 PLUS YEARS.

UNLESS WERE PLAYING MATT STAFFORD AND HE FUMBLES 2 PLAYS IN A ROW LMAO
NAME ONE TOP DEFENDER OUR TES HAVE DOMINATED IN 7 PLUS YEARS. AVG BLOCKERS HAVE NO BUSINESS PLAYING EVERY PASSING SNAP. EVERYDOWN PASSING PLAYS ARE DESIGNED FOR SUPERSTAR RECEIVERS NOT BLOCKERS BECAUSE YA CANT SCORE POINTS BLOCKING.

WE GIVE THIS 5 TD A YEAR TE CORE A FREE PASS FROM SCORING. GRONK WAS PUTTING UP 10 PLUS TDS EVERY YEAR BY HIMSELF DRAWING DOUBLE AND TRIPLE COVERAGE.

GO GET A GRONK OR AT LEAST A JARED COOK OR JIMMY GRAHAM. SOMEBODY WHO CAN JUMP MORE THAN 2 INCHES OFF THE GROUND AND CATCH PASSES IN THE AIR. LOL. THESE TES STINK. THEY ARE OVERINVOLVED FOR THEIR TALENT LEVEL AS RECEIVERS AS ALWAYS
HE WAS PUTTING UP ALL OF THOSE #1 NUMBERS AS THE #2 TE. BETTER PRODUCTION AS THE NUMBER #2 TE THAN OUR ENTIRE TE CORE FOR 7 YEARS. HE ALSO MADE GAME WINNING PLAYS.

BELECHEK USES ALOT MORE 10 AND 11 PERSONELL THAN 12. HE ONLY USES 12 FORMATIONS AGAINST BAD RUN DEFENSES AND IN RED ZONE SITUATIONS. HE HAD GRONK WHO COULD LINE UP ANYWHERE AND DOMINATE ON THE OUTSIDE AS A WR!!! OUR GUYS CANT PLAY OUTSIDE AND ARE LIMITED TO THE SLOT. DRAFT SOME TES WHO CAN GO UP AND GET A BALL. THAT SHOULD BE OUR FIRST PRIORITY SINCE WE DONT HAVE AN ALPHA DOG WR LIKE DEZ

WE REPLACED OUR YARDS BUT NOT SCORING PRODUCTION.
DID YALL SEE KITTLE AND KELCE IN THE SUPER BOWL. MAKING BIG CATCHES DOWNFIELD AND SCORING.

HAD KITTLE NOT GOT FLAGGED FOR OFFENSIVE PI THAT GAME WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH CLOSER. ITS SAD BECAUSE GARRAPOLO PUT THE BALL WHERE ONLY KITTLE COULD GET IT SO THE PI WAS POINTLESS. THAT CALL WAS A GAMECHANGER. IT COST THEM ALOT OF MOMENTUM AND POINTS GOING INTO HALFTIME.

COWBOY FANS PUT TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON BLOCKING. WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR BLOCKING WHEN YOURE DRAGGING A DOUBLE OR TRIPLE TEAM DOWN THE FIELD AND AWAY FROM THE BALL ON EVERY PLAY. LMAO. WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO OVERRATE THE BLOCKING AND UNDERRATE THE RECEIVING AND LAST TIME I CHECKED SCORING TRUMPS BLOCKING. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THESE TES CANT CATCH DEEP BALLS, GO UP AND GET 50/50 BALLS SO WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO OVERRATE BLOCKING. WHILE THEY SUCK AT RECEIVING. LOL
Why you yelling?
 

SSoup

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HE WAS PUTTING UP ALL OF THOSE #1 NUMBERS AS THE #2 TE. BETTER PRODUCTION AS THE NUMBER #2 TE THAN OUR ENTIRE TE CORE FOR 7 YEARS. HE ALSO MADE GAME WINNING PLAYS.
Right, but he was putting up those numbers (in his one season of putting up really good numbers) because the team was functionally giving him the workload of a starting WR.

If the Patriots put a conventional 1-TE offense on the field and their #2 WR, their third leading receiver (behind Gronk and Welker), got 79 catches for 900 yards and 7 TDs, it would've been a nice season by a good player, but nothing to lose your mind over. Just like none of us lost our minds over Crayton's 2007 or Cobb's 2019.

And their running game was pretty pitiful that year with their leading rusher only getting 600-something yards and not even cracking 4 yards per carry. So it's not like the 2-TE formation gave them a blocking advantage they enjoyed.

They were just a passing team that made the unusual choice to line up in 2-TE offenses constantly that year and chose to give their 2nd TE a more prominent role (30 more catches) than their 2nd WR. We've had offenses where the guy filling the #2 WR role or the third-leading receiver posted similar or better numbers. And not once did our minds explode over it. And our running game was better despite not being a 2-TE setup.

If that Patriots team had been a great running team, then I would buy the narrative that their 2-TE scheme was genius and a game-changer.

It's like if somebody decided to line up a pure receiver at fullback and scheme to give him good third-receiver numbers, people would be impressed. Because when does a FB post that kind of production these days? But if their running game was bad, then that undercuts the benefit. They could've stuck a slot WR on the field and easily gotten the same production (maybe even better production if forcing the defense to put an extra corner on the field makes them weaker against the run while the WR still matches or bests the receiving production the FB would've given).

If we put a pass-catching FB on the field next year and give him the workload of a WR in our passing game and our run-blocking is bad, no one is going to say, "Oh my God, they re-invented the wheel. Give that fullback a 5 year, $40 million dollar extension!" The Pats listed a slot receiver as a TE, enjoyed zero of the blocking benefits that usually come with putting a 2nd TE on the field instead of a 3rd WR, and everyone acted like they'd cracked the code. They didn't.
 

Future

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NAME ONE TOP DEFENDER OUR TES HAVE DOMINATED IN 7 PLUS YEARS. AVG BLOCKERS HAVE NO BUSINESS PLAYING EVERY PASSING SNAP. EVERYDOWN PASSING PLAYS ARE DESIGNED FOR SUPERSTAR RECEIVERS NOT BLOCKERS BECAUSE YA CANT SCORE POINTS BLOCKING.

WE GIVE THIS 5 TD A YEAR TE CORE A FREE PASS FROM SCORING. GRONK WAS PUTTING UP 10 PLUS TDS EVERY YEAR BY HIMSELF DRAWING DOUBLE AND TRIPLE COVERAGE.

GO GET A GRONK OR AT LEAST A JARED COOK OR JIMMY GRAHAM. SOMEBODY WHO CAN JUMP MORE THAN 2 INCHES OFF THE GROUND AND CATCH PASSES IN THE AIR. LOL. THESE TES STINK. THEY ARE OVERINVOLVED FOR THEIR TALENT LEVEL AS RECEIVERS AS ALWAYS
Relax, tight ends don't matter.
 

Redball Express

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Did any of you guys notice that over the last several years when we brought in two tight ends at the goal line and ran the ball the tight ends did literally nothing for it. At least when you go three wides it gave Zeke some room to run the ball. It seemed to me that over the past several years that was a huge fail.

Goal line anything was such a struggle in the second half of the season.

McCarthy is going to really rebuild that part for2020.

With Witten leaving they may have to use another T or G at TE on goalline to get the push to run it it.
 

DandyDon52

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Our short yardage, jumbo, and GL packages have been bad the last few years. And its the TE's that have been the big issue.

Our TE's have been as bad as it gets blocking and it shows. Jarwin is about as bad as it gets blocking. If we are serious about running the football, then you need at least 2 good blocking TE's and a legitimate blocking FB.
I hate the jumbo, that lets the defense pile up in center, I think it is better to have the wideouts and spread the defense out to run.
 

CowboyRoy

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I hate the jumbo, that lets the defense pile up in center, I think it is better to have the wideouts and spread the defense out to run.

Jumbo works great if you have the TE's for it, which we didnt the last 3 years.
 
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