Defense has to get stronger up the middle

conner01

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Looking at the draft it looks to me we must keep Quinn, add a couple of FA DT’s before the draft
If a DT is there at 17 like kinlaw that doesn’t stop you from taking him too
This draft looks primed to fix the secondary to me
We need a safety and a couple of CB
One of those CB has to be ready to play day one
 

quickccc

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According to Archer, he’s likely not coming back. He’s going to be out of our price range

which means Stephen has every intention to low ball offer him and direct his plans more through the NFL draft only.

Only so many premium picks to fill so many critical holes, without any significant help in FA.
 

glimmerman

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Need a couple of good DT. Will go a long way later in the season. And make our secondary look better. Will likely lose Jones.
 

CouchCoach

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We've only been saying this since Parcells got Glover in FA, that's how long it's been since that position was a priority and it's so low that they let their DC have a gift of his problem child with that 2nd pick.

Maybe it changes with Big Mike because he likes large individuals in the middle on the field and on the sideline to hide behind.

The other problem is the D has to get stronger on the back end as well and if Jones walks, I doubt there will be a DT in the 1st or 2nd round.
 

glimmerman

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We've only been saying this since Parcells got Glover in FA, that's how long it's been since that position was a priority and it's so low that they let their DC have a gift of his problem child with that 2nd pick.

Maybe it changes with Big Mike because he likes large individuals in the middle on the field and on the sideline to hide behind.

The other problem is the D has to get stronger on the back end as well and if Jones walks, I doubt there will be a DT in the 1st or 2nd round.
To me Jones possibly leaving makes a DT even more important. A push up the middle along with our DE will get a consistent pass rush and make the secondary easier to play. Plus the run stuffing of having a big guy in the middle helps. I think MM goes after DT and he isn’t afraid to draft a Safety. BUT...

Will he get the chance. JJ has already given up more power to a HC than he has in years. Since tuna. Not sure he will let him shop for the groceries. I am sure he can make a case for drafting these players but he has to make it look like it’s JJs idea.
 

CouchCoach

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To me Jones possibly leaving makes a DT even more important. A push up the middle along with our DE will get a consistent pass rush and make the secondary easier to play. Plus the run stuffing of having a big guy in the middle helps. I think MM goes after DT and he isn’t afraid to draft a Safety. BUT...

Will he get the chance. JJ has already given up more power to a HC than he has in years. Since tuna. Not sure he will let him shop for the groceries. I am sure he can make a case for drafting these players but he has to make it look like it’s JJs idea.
The power Booger has given up has been with only coaches so far.

We do not know how the HC and his staff will contribute with positions or players in FA and the draft.
 

eyedoc

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Looking at the Cowboy Defensive strengths and weaknesses, it becomes really clear what is the big hole in this defense; defensive line interior:

-The Cowboys strength along with DL is at the DE positions. Quinn is an elite edge rusher, where Lawrence is an elite run defender with plus rushing skills. QB's rarely are moved off their spot and climb the pocket when the outside gets some pressure. The majority of the big runs against the defense happened right up the middle.

-The Cowboys have two very talented young linebackers in Lve and Jaylon Smith. They aren't the old schooled types, that successful stack and shed blockers at the point of attack, but rather run and hit type of backers. You would think, if they are better protected up front they will be able to play more to their strengths.

-We can discuss year after year the lack of talent at the safety positions. Jeff Heath the current strong safety starter, who is an unrestricted free agent is more of a solid special teamer not a starting safety in this league. When was the last time we saw an enforcer making game altering plays, hell just making plays behind the line of scrimmage? Find an elite tackling box safety who can hold up in coverage. These types of safeties are far easier to be had then those elite coverage ones.

-There are issues with lack of turnovers within the entire defense, but if the interior line of the defense is improved, turnovers should follow.

My Super Bowl Pick

Chiefs-30
49ers-24
You were pretty close on your super bowl score.
 

quickccc

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We've only been saying this since Parcells got Glover in FA, that's how long it's been since that position was a priority and it's so low that they let their DC have a gift of his problem child with that 2nd pick.

Maybe it changes with Big Mike because he likes large individuals in the middle on the field and on the sideline to hide behind.

The other problem is the D has to get stronger on the back end as well and if Jones walks, I doubt there will be a DT in the 1st or 2nd round.

the premium DTs, edge rushers and CBs tend to go so fast off the board. Those are the ones that are more in demand and harder to find.

Only a few cases where teams have struck gold with unheralded types becoming premium interior forces such as:
- ATL Grady Jarrett was drafted in the 5th round
- Bengals Geno Atkins was drafted in 4th round
 

Doomsday101

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No doubt there needs to be some changes on Defense. Some personnel and some of it just getting the production out of some others that they are capable of. This past season watching poor tackling in serval game cannot be tolerated. Nolan has a big task ahead of him to get this group playing at a higher level than they showed this past season.
 

quickccc

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Need a couple of good DT. Will go a long way later in the season. And make our secondary look better. Will likely lose Jones.

my idea situation would be for Stephen to sign the top rated run stuffing 1 tech in FA. And McClay to have a chance to nab one of the top rated interior 3 tech type in the early rounds.
But I am still so very concerned that Stephen still has this Marinelli low regards mentality for 1 techs that they may be more interested in bargaining hunting for the JAG decent types
than the more higher regarded 1 techs in FA. ..for the sake of stingy savings.

That difference making 3 tech will more likely have to come through the draft, it would have to be in the early rounds, and if it's 2nd, 3rd round guy, I can see him being worked in gradually
as a rotation type until he gets his feet wet with more game experience, much like it was pre-planned for Trysten Hill development.
And sorry but we cannot afford to wait and see what becomes of Trysten Hill, if we have a chance to get a well regarded 3 tech in the early rounds.
 

quickccc

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First we’ll have to see what the FA moves brings us .. or takes away from us. If we don’t re-sign Quinn, (age 30 or not) ..that becomes a huge void and one the cheap Stephen will look for a quick money ball serviceable type to fill. And that immediately becomes a front line need in the draft.

- DT’s are another must, ad that includes BOTH DT spots too.
One could be better addressed with a top notch 1 tech vet (such as Ravens 330 pounder Michael Pierce) ..but again I don’t trust Stephen to come up big for us in FA market to addressed that.
Seems much easier to fill with a proven vet and it’s only so many premium picks for so many dire needs we can fill in one draft and one season.

- I do worry about Jaylon’s lack of lateral ability in coverage, and questionable instincts, and I now know why he will always be slated to the Middle LB vs any possibility as OLB,
and I do think he is the type you have to scheme for more to best maximize his abilities and hide his deficiencies.
and this is where I hope the new coaches al Nolan and Edwards will come up big on this one.
But this is where I also believe having much better interior guys that can disrupt and clog the middle traffic more so, can better help Jaylon having to get lost and fight thru trench blockers on a lesser basis.

- Safety is indeed an issue, CBs even more - especially if Jones leaves, as you lose a solid man coverage guy that you have to immediately replace ( and Jordan Lewis aint happenin’)
and on the opposite Awuzie seems like just a decent guy at best- and look for teams to continue to come after him even more and more. He hasn’t improved his game.
- Xavier is going into his 3rd year and still remains a question. He’s not active enough, his run support tackling is too up and down. He does have INT hands but he also seems too often out of position.
- I don’t expect Heath to return in FA, will likely get a bigger deal by some other NFL team.
Could Cowboys be considering a player such as Vikes Anthony Harris in FA? I just dunno what will become of Stephen Jones in this upcoming FA market.
 

starfan1

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Riddle me this though are the cowboys out on Gregory now has their patience reached the end? what is his status and can he be that replacement if quinn is too costly?
 

kskboys

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He's gotta be better than bloom though. I think bloom held these guys back. The last month they seemed to play better with bloom sitting at home.

As far as the Dline we need better talent but we also could be better by having them play differently. Right now we are a boom or bust run defense. We either stop them behind the Los or 10 yards down the middle. Too often the DT's get washed out by trying to go around the guards, vacating the middle and allowing the center to be uncovered so he blocks the ML. If we fix this by simply having the 1t anchor down and occupy the guard-center it would allow the LB to make the play. That is what Hayden used to do, it wasn't sexy but he did an ok enough job to hold the middle.
Well said.
 

ondaedg

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Looking at the Cowboy Defensive strengths and weaknesses, it becomes really clear what is the big hole in this defense; defensive line interior:

-The Cowboys strength along with DL is at the DE positions. Quinn is an elite edge rusher, where Lawrence is an elite run defender with plus rushing skills. QB's rarely are moved off their spot and climb the pocket when the outside gets some pressure. The majority of the big runs against the defense happened right up the middle.

-The Cowboys have two very talented young linebackers in Lve and Jaylon Smith. They aren't the old schooled types, that successful stack and shed blockers at the point of attack, but rather run and hit type of backers. You would think, if they are better protected up front they will be able to play more to their strengths.

-We can discuss year after year the lack of talent at the safety positions. Jeff Heath the current strong safety starter, who is an unrestricted free agent is more of a solid special teamer not a starting safety in this league. When was the last time we saw an enforcer making game altering plays, hell just making plays behind the line of scrimmage? Find an elite tackling box safety who can hold up in coverage. These types of safeties are far easier to be had then those elite coverage ones.

-There are issues with lack of turnovers within the entire defense, but if the interior line of the defense is improved, turnovers should follow.

My Super Bowl Pick

Chiefs-30
49ers-24

So are our young LBers truly talented if they need stout DTs or are they just large glorified strong safeties?
 

charron

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So are our young LBers truly talented if they need stout DTs or are they just large glorified strong safeties?


We need talent and scheme. So our guys are talented pass rushers to some degree but they are not dominant at the point of attack up the middle to require the guard and center to block. Part of that is marinelli scheme required these guys to work up field often taking them outside of the guards away from the center and thus our MLB having to block the center 1 on 1 is tough. My money is on Travis 100% of the time vs any LB. This is where Hayden did an ok job, he didn't often penetrate the line but he did occupy 2 OL. We need a DT who can atleast hold the guard/center, better if he can shed them and make a tackle , best if he can blow them up and hit the RB-QB in the backfield
 

Future

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Quinn > D.Law

Its true Quinn is better than tank , and 10 times cheaper too .
It is unequivocally false.

It is true if you only watch box scores.

And this 10x cheaper thing is total nonsense. Quinn made $10m this year and might be close to $15m next year.
 

ondaedg

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We need talent and scheme. So our guys are talented pass rushers to some degree but they are not dominant at the point of attack up the middle to require the guard and center to block. Part of that is marinelli scheme required these guys to work up field often taking them outside of the guards away from the center and thus our MLB having to block the center 1 on 1 is tough. My money is on Travis 100% of the time vs any LB. This is where Hayden did an ok job, he didn't often penetrate the line but he did occupy 2 OL. We need a DT who can atleast hold the guard/center, better if he can shed them and make a tackle , best if he can blow them up and hit the RB-QB in the backfield

Totally agree that part of the problem was the scheme leaving the ILBs 1:1 with a c/g. However and this is a big however neither JS or LVE showed the willingness or the ability to take on a block and make a tackle. At times they were as easily blocked as a db. Better DTs will def help but there is no excuse for some of those performances. Plenty of film in the Jaylon thread to reference.
 
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