The Daklemma

Montanalo

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He's gonna get paid. Move on, nothing new to see here.
While I don't necessarily disagree, I sometimes wonder that, with with a new coach - one noted for his past QB success - could this be a perfect storm to let Dak test the market and possibly sign somewhere else? I know, run on sentence.

Look, I like the prospect of Dak being signed long-term by the Cowboys, but... If this gets too hard or unreasonable, is MM a convenient Jerry Jones scapegoat to let Dak walk?
 

Diehardblues

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If we sign Dak for 40 million and put him out there without Cooper we’d look foolish if we got off to another 3-5 type start without a WR1.

Which really should answer our dilemma with Dak. It’s really silly committing to him if he’s so dependent on the Elite supporting cast.

And why Jerry is such a liability to football operations as he can’t separate owner from GM making decisions.
 

Runwildboys

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No, before I even started the thread, cool, huh? Kinda goes with Daksters and Dakaters. Marcus, words are our friends and our best friends are the ones we make up. I haven't even gotten into Dakarious, Dakability, Daktatious, Daklicious or Dakilirium yet. Waiting to see if they sign him first, holding those in reserve. If they give him that big deal, some are having a Dakebration all off season.
You'd better have the trademarks ready to go.
 

CouchCoach

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That’s BS. You’re just hugging his hiney. He hasn’t done jack crap yet. No reason to kiss it. And Booger isn’t a slam.

But if FM has doubts about Dak that might bring some respect my way.
Yeah, it really is a slam. If he'd been eating honey out of a jar instead of picking his nose, I doubt seriously I'd be calling him Honey.

I am not hugging his hiney, don't have the wingspan in the first place. I was in favor of his hiring, or Rivera, because I Iike what he's done and what he's got on the line. I am going to give him the chance to validate my choice.

If you recall, I was one of the last to start running over Garrett, I gave him ample opportunity up until ATL and I think that job looks a hell of a lot easer than it is. And I would not be calling Big Mike a puppet until you see some proof of that. I don't think you expected him to have the power to hire his own people, I sure didn't. So that opened my eyes to all the possibilities that he might actually establish the culture for the team.
 

CouchCoach

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Every QB has to have weapons around them. Just ask Brady and Rodgers this year.

As good as their defenses were they didn't have enough horses on offense to beat good teams when it mattered.
There are different levels of weapons. i.e., have an OL like this one, do you really need a 15M RB? I have seen Brady and Rodgers lift their WR's and players that became known were known because of how the QB used them.

I saw this QB without his RB1 and without a WR1 and someone in that FO or in coaching thought he didn't need a WR1. I haven't changed my opinion of Prescott since he came into the league and watched him for two years at Miss St. If a team has WR's that can get college open, he can deliver. Brady and Rodgers can hit NFL open WR's with regularity.

But this isn't about Prescott as I agree that he can take them to the Big Dance, IF he has that team around him. There are few QB's that can put the team on their back like Mahomes did in the playoffs and Jackson in the regular season. The rule is QB's that need weapons; however, you don't want to pay the rule exceptional money because of those needed weapons and depth,
 

Diehardblues

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Yeah, it really is a slam. If he'd been eating honey out of a jar instead of picking his nose, I doubt seriously I'd be calling him Honey.

I am not hugging his hiney, don't have the wingspan in the first place. I was in favor of his hiring, or Rivera, because I Iike what he's done and what he's got on the line. I am going to give him the chance to validate my choice.

If you recall, I was one of the last to start running over Garrett, I gave him ample opportunity up until ATL and I think that job looks a hell of a lot easer than it is. And I would not be calling Big Mike a puppet until you see some proof of that. I don't think you expected him to have the power to hire his own people, I sure didn't. So that opened my eyes to all the possibilities that he might actually establish the culture for the team.
But that’s not why you nicknamed him Booger. At least not what you’ve said.

I actually thought Fat Mikey was a decent hire. The fact Jerry hires a proven HC outside his recent comfort zone was encouraging. But the fact he spent the nite at Jerry’s was first sign of puppetry along with retaining Moore which we all know was Jerry’s wishes.

I don’t want to derail you’re thread about coaching . But I’d give FM props if it was him who is putting on the brakes with Dak.
 

Diehardblues

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I’m all for paying Dak if we can expect him to carry this team without Elite supporting cast completely around him.

If not, then please tell me why in the hell we are so determined in keeping him?

Would we pay Elite money to any other position or player if they weren't Elite?
 

CouchCoach

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As a group..

we are thinking McCarthy has all the answers to our past problems.

Maybe.

He has not yet had a minute on the field with the players and we have not idea how this goes.

We are going to be very patient if we can. But I am a little concerned with it all.

I need to see this all together and seeing the players respond and McCarthy in control to get a handle on it.

Unfortunately under Garrett, all we ever knew was that the team struggled putting games back-to-back.

It was always up then down..from game to game then season to season.

Tired of that beyond belief.
No HC has all the answers but he was in my top 2 of the known candidates available. I wanted experience and a track record of getting there.

I do know one thing Red, the position of HC turns over at a 20-25% clip every year and he stayed in Titletown for 13 years. Quick math tells me that 78-112 HC's lost their jobs while he stayed employed in a tough town to coach in.

I am one of the posters here with double happy. Happy a change was finally made and happy one of my two guys got it. I could be disappointed down the road but I take happy when it comes my way.
 

Diehardblues

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There are different levels of weapons. i.e., have an OL like this one, do you really need a 15M RB? I have seen Brady and Rodgers lift their WR's and players that became known were known because of how the QB used them.

I saw this QB without his RB1 and without a WR1 and someone in that FO or in coaching thought he didn't need a WR1. I haven't changed my opinion of Prescott since he came into the league and watched him for two years at Miss St. If a team has WR's that can get college open, he can deliver. Brady and Rodgers can hit NFL open WR's with regularity.

But this isn't about Prescott as I agree that he can take them to the Big Dance, IF he has that team around him. There are few QB's that can put the team on their back like Mahomes did in the playoffs and Jackson in the regular season. The rule is QB's that need weapons; however, you don't want to pay the rule exceptional money because of those needed weapons and depth,
Why wouldn’t a Tannehill type QB be enough in this offense?

Why in the hell do we need a 30-40 million dollar bus driver in this offense? Idiotic how attached fans get with their guys without more success.

I think we have an owner who runs our team thru the eyes of a fan and he like many others fell heads over heels his Rookie season and haven’t gotten over their initial bolt of lightening despite the reality since.
 

CouchCoach

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But that’s not why you nicknamed him Booger. At least not what you’ve said.

I actually thought Fat Mikey was a decent hire. The fact Jerry hires a proven HC outside his recent comfort zone was encouraging. But the fact he spent the nite at Jerry’s was first sign of puppetry along with retaining Moore which we all know was Jerry’s wishes.

I don’t want to derail you’re thread about coaching . But I’d give FM props if it was him who is putting on the brakes with Dak.
I named him Booger because he was caught on national TV and the Boogertron with his finger a knuckle up his nose on the grand opening night...in a loss. Guys like Booger McFarland get that nickname and it's not uncommon in the south but Booger earned it.
 

Diehardblues

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I named him Booger because he was caught on national TV and the Boogertron with his finger a knuckle up his nose on the grand opening night...in a loss. Guys like Booger McFarland get that nickname and it's not uncommon in the south but Booger earned it.
But you have often referenced the nickname to characters not the picking the nose scene.
 

CouchCoach

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Why wouldn’t a Tannehill type QB be enough in this offense?

Why in the hell do we need a 30-40 million dollar bus driver in this offense? Idiotic how attached fans get with their guys without more success.

I think we have an owner who runs our team thru the eyes of a fan and he like many others fell heads over heels his Rookie season and haven’t gotten over their initial bolt of lightening despite the reality since.
I don't know that a Tannehill or Garopollo or Cousins type QB couldn't do it but it is going to, sooner or later, come down to the QB doing it, just like it did in this SB. One QB did it and the other failed. No QB has ever had the stats he had going to the SB, not even Dilfer or Johnson.

But one team was built to play that way and did so and the other was forced out of their comfort zone.

What we do not consider is the team Prescott QB'd his rookie season compared to the one that Goff and Wentz QB'd. Got a solid OL, ranked in the top 2, an All Pro rookie RB and pb WR and TE, there are a hell of a lot of rookie QB's that would have loved that gig. Not taking anything away from Prescott because it was impressive but I've seen better QB's look like crap in their rookie season like Manning, Elway and Luck. Prescott was fortunate like Marino and Rotheliesberger, they went to good teams and could just execute the offense.
 

CouchCoach

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But you have often referenced the nickname to characters not the picking the nose scene.
Nah, it's always been about that opening night, it actually started that night on the old forum. I was actually tired of typing his old nickname, Ole Sphincter Face, and I am pretty sure if he had the choice between the two, he'd pick Booger.
 

Diehardblues

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I don't know that a Tannehill or Garopollo or Cousins type QB couldn't do it but it is going to, sooner or later, come down to the QB doing it, just like it did in this SB. One QB did it and the other failed. No QB has ever had the stats he had going to the SB, not even Dilfer or Johnson.

But one team was built to play that way and did so and the other was forced out of their comfort zone.

What we do not consider is the team Prescott QB'd his rookie season compared to the one that Goff and Wentz QB'd. Got a solid OL, ranked in the top 2, an All Pro rookie RB and pb WR and TE, there are a hell of a lot of rookie QB's that would have loved that gig. Not taking anything away from Prescott because it was impressive but I've seen better QB's look like crap in their rookie season like Manning, Elway and Luck. Prescott was fortunate like Marino and Rotheliesberger, they went to good teams and could just execute the offense.
The 49ers is the model we should follow with a bus driving QB. Which means we need to invest and build an Elite defense.

Here we are over investing in our Cap on offense but yet we won’t expect it to carry us. Fools gold.

Two proven roads to a Super Bowl with rare exception. Elite defense or QB. We have neither.
 

Diehardblues

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Nah, it's always been about that opening night, it actually started that night on the old forum. I was actually tired of typing his old nickname, Ole Sphincter Face, and I am pretty sure if he had the choice between the two, he'd pick Booger.
You certainly didn’t always portray that. You often referenced when asked it was more about his character than picking his noise. And that it was like a pet name not a slam.
 

CouchCoach

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It was reported he watch a lot of film on Dallas as well as Dak, and that he has confidence that Dak can improve to be even better. He thought he was a very good QB.
Yep, I saw that too but this continuing stalemate suggests he doesn't like him that much or they would have already gotten this done.

And jazzy, I do not underestimate the effect of watching the difference in a QB like Mahomes and Garoppolo in that SB or just what SF had to do to get there. How often is any team going to get a ring with those QB stats that Garoppolo had?

They're looking at putting this team in Prescott's hands for the next 5 years and this HC is looking at attaching his road to redemption in those hands as well.

With me, it is not about Prescott, I think I know what he is and he's good enough with the right weapons around him, that's my apprehension.....those necessary weapons. Maybe Big Mike can teach him to use all of his weapons better and the weapons don't have to be as good, that is a trademark of that offense. Many weapons.
 

CouchCoach

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You certainly didn’t always portray that. You often referenced when asked it was more about his character than picking his noise. And that it was like a pet name not a slam.
I don't know where you missed it but nicknaming a billionaire Booger has always been a slam, it's why some here don't like it and continue to call me out on it, like that would do any good.
 

Trueboysfan

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Yes, I know, not another Dak thread but this one isn't about paying him or tagging him, it is all based one person's perspective, Big Mike. He has seen first hand what a high % of the cap to the QB can do and he had Tier 1 QB's.

Whether you are a Dakster or Dakater, I think most will agree, he is not a lifter, he needs talent on the field with him as we've seen when the RB1 was missing and there was no WR1.

So if you are this HC, with his experience with QB and salaries, where is the breaking point with Prescott as his QB1? What will paying a 2nd Tier QB 1st Tier money do to his ability to build around him and the D is building around him.

It's not lost on him what they're paying the OL and RB now and he's probably watched a lot of college QB's this past season doing some scouting and evaluating.

I do not doubt he likes Prescott but how much? Does he like him Rodgers, Ryan and Wilson money?

The market has a lot to do with this but if what they do the deal now that puts him in the top 3 now but barely in the top 10 in 2022 and he's not really a top 10 QB?

It is most certainly a dilemma with a QB that you know you need to put the pieces around him but his salary prevents that except for 1st contract players.

The HC's thinking on this is one perspective. Consider the Joneses. What have they said is their biggest regret during the Romo years? Putting the pieces around him.

The other dilemma is the effect of tagging the QB. New HC in his first year and QB maybe in his final. And the assignment is to be better than 2019, the expectations with this hire are as high as they could be from the FO.

And the ultimate dilemma, what's the message tagging sends to the QB, belief or doubt? This is not his first negotiation, the called the last one off with no deal. And the rest of the offense, how do they read a tagging?

No team in the NFL is facing the textbook "damned if you do and damned if you don't" like the Cowboys are this offseason.

Great way of looking at it because you are right on the money. Dak is a really good QB, but isn't a top tier qb...yet. I believe hes good enough right now to help us win a superbowl, but you are right about him needing support on both sides of the ball. So yes I agree that paying him top tier money and losing key players in the process would have disastrous results.

I think he should take a contract that will allow the Cowboys to re-sign other players we need on the team. Let his play do the talking and next contract will be his big payday contract.

It just makes sense. It's not like his contract is going to be small and beneath what he deserves and his team has got to have money to keep pieces in place.
 

Diehardblues

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I don't know where you missed it but nicknaming a billionaire Booger has always been a slam, it's why some here don't like it and continue to call me out on it, like that would do any good.
I saw you many times reference the name in that type of context that he was a Booger type personality not just a guy in the booth picking his noise.
 

McKDaddy

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There is plenty of tape on him after starting for 4 full seasons.
This is the part that is ridiculous. Based on those 4 season, he clearly isn't regarded as worthy of "just pay him" or he would already be paid. Therein lies the dilemma, what pay level is reasonable for his performance?
 
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