The truth about Jaylon Smith's 2019 season

Ranched

"We Are Penn State"
Messages
34,885
Reaction score
84,323
You forgot the most important stat, interceptions.


Luke Kuechly: 18 interception
Jaylon Smith: 1 interception
Very impressive IF Kuechly had 18 picks in one season. But he didn't. They were accumulated over an 8yr period in the league vs Smith' 4th year. Not hard to do the math.

Kuechly' pick average is about 2.25 sacks per season. Still wish to call it, the most important stat, interceptions?! o_O
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,628
Reaction score
28,430
Very impressive IF Kuechly had 18 picks in one season. But he didn't. They were accumulated over an 8yr period in the league vs Smith' 4th year. Not hard to do the math.

Jaylon also had two picks that were nullified by penalties. Include those and his total would be right with the top non-Kuechly Mikes in terms of interceptions.
 

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!
Messages
16,253
Reaction score
12,758
He was equally bad when LVE was on the field. Whiffs, overruns, blocked by one hand, fullbacks launching him into the owner's box etc etc.
So..

Think you are overstating your dislike.

Is there anything he did well?

Must have done something to get to the Pro Bowl?

Or out of 96+ LBers in the league, he ranks 6th in tackles.

We all know what it has taken for him to play in his rehab. No credit for his accomplishment ?
If he had never been injured, he would have been a top 5 draft pick.

As it worked out, he is maybe 90% of that now. And importantly, we could afford to select him in the 2nd rd.

I just don't know what you want from him.
 

INCowboysFan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
2,640
Smith played better than some give him credit for but he missed way too many tackles
Quinn really has nothing to do with it and if sacks was such a useless stat then why does every team constantly hunt a guy to get sacks
All stars tell a story, non tell the complete story
Stats say otherwise. Jaylon had a missed tackle rate of 7.8% and was credited for 12 missed tackles all year. Sean Lee missed 14 tackles and had a 14% missed tackle rate. LVE had 13 missed tackles and a missed tackle rate of 15.3% in only 9 games. Did Jaylon have some issues? Of course, and he needs to clean it up for next season. But he was the least of our worries at LB.
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,914
Reaction score
22,440
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
So there's some threads and posts floating around that are flat out ludacris. A guy just posted that Jaylon is an embarrassment to the organization so I feel compelled to offer you this:

Player A: 144 tackles (81 solo), 0 sacks. 2 ints

Player B: 142 tackles (83 solo), 2.5 sacks, 1 ints

Player A is Luke Kuechly
Player B is Jaylon Smith


Jaylon had the 6th most tackles in the entire NFL (3 solo tackles behind league leader Bobby Wagner; largely regarded as the best LB in the NFL). Jaylon also had .5 less sacks and the same number of INTs as Wagner.

To say Jaylon is an embarrassment to this organization is an embarrassing thing to say - the guy isn't even in his prime yet and had to deal with idiots like Robert Quinn not being able to stop the run or screens to save his damn life (the guy had 26 solo tackles in 2019). Quinn was sack hunting the whole season so he could get a big contract & it compromised this whole defense (especially the LBs - in my opinion). I get some of you are in love with Quinn because sacks (the most overrated thing in all of football) make people fall in love with players. If I'm the Cowboys I couldn't get rid of Quinn fast enough & this Jaylon Smith slander needs to stop - it's ridiculous.
I assume the guy you are referring to is the same guy who, in another thread, has said Jayon is "stupendously bad", and while I agree with him that tackles are not a tell all stat, he takes the position that they mean nothing at all. By his version, if a stat doesn't tell everything, then it tells nothing. If that's the case, then no stat means anything.

The tackles stat at least mean Jaylon was active, and was relied on to make an unusually high percentage of the tackles for the team. That actually does mean something.

Does it mean he was "great", or a "star" or played at an All-Pro level? No, it doesn't because other factors would have to be considered along with tackles to reach that conclusion. But it does mean he was carrying a large part of the burden for making tackles, so he did have value, and is contributing, even if not as much as we think he could or should have. At a minimum he was an average to solid LB.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,015
I assume the guy you are referring to is the same guy who, in another thread, has said Jayon is "stupendously bad", and while I agree with him that tackles are not a tell all stat, he takes the position that they mean nothing at all. By his version, if a stat doesn't tell everything, then it tells nothing. If that's the case, then no stat means anything.

The tackles stat at least mean Jaylon was active, and was relied on to make an unusually high percentage of the tackles for the team. That actually does mean something.

Does it mean he was "great", or a "star" or played at an All-Pro level? No, it doesn't because other factors would have to be considered along with tackles to reach that conclusion. But it does mean he was carrying a large part of the burden for making tackles, so he did have value, and is contributing, even if not as much as we think he could or should have. At a minimum he was an average to solid LB.

Lol, smh.

All stats can be contextualized, but some more so than others.

Ex. A fumble recovery is just that....a recovered fumble. Where it occurred on the field doesn’t matter or when in the game it occurred. It’s as close to an objective stat as you can get.

A tackle is the antithesis of that. There is ZERO context provided by the statistic.

Your struggle with the nuance of the issue is your issue not mine.

Here’s some reading....educate yourself:

Tackle Statistics Matter?
https://www.sports-central.org/sports/2018/03/06/do_tackle_statistics_matter.php

The NFL’s Make-Believe Stat
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444897304578044610803692432

The farce of tackling: Why is such a fundamental stat so elusive?
https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/www.si...l-tackling-history-stat-leaders-lavonte-david
 

Dreski

Well-Known Member
Messages
534
Reaction score
930
Bradie James used to lead the team in tackles every year, then Sean Lee happened and our linebacking corps got better. Tackles don’t really mean much if your defense is not out there making stops consistently.

That being said, he wasn’t the main problem on defense; every player/coach deserves some criticism for the year(except for maybe LP Ladouceur). I feel like their biggest downfall was the team, in all phases, did not play cohesively enough to be where they wanted to be.
 

ondaedg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
3,034
So..

Think you are overstating your dislike.

Is there anything he did well?

Must have done something to get to the Pro Bowl?

Or out of 96+ LBers in the league, he ranks 6th in tackles.

We all know what it has taken for him to play in his rehab. No credit for his accomplishment ?
If he had never been injured, he would have been a top 5 draft pick.

As it worked out, he is maybe 90% of that now. And importantly, we could afford to select him in the 2nd rd.

I just don't know what you want from him.

Come back to me once you've warched the game film in this thread and we can discuss. Better yet watch Jaylon on all four of Aaron Jones' touchdowns against us. Or all 100yds of Dalvin Cooks' screen passes. Film doesn't lie. And guess what he is making alot of tackles 20+ yds downfield.

:thumbup:
 

ondaedg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
3,034
Bradie James used to lead the team in tackles every year, then Sean Lee happened and our linebacking corps got better. Tackles don’t really mean much if your defense is not out there making stops consistently.

That being said, he wasn’t the main problem on defense; every player/coach deserves some criticism for the year(except for maybe LP Ladouceur). I feel like their biggest downfall was the team, in all phases, did not play cohesively enough to be where they wanted to be.

Totally agree. The fact that LVE and Jaylon were lined up in a predictable spot for the QB every play is the coach's fault for sure. But his inability to make open field tackles, fight through blocks or stack and shed is all on Jaylon.
 

Bob-Lillys-War

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
24,793
Player A . 159 Tackles ( 2019 )

Player B. 142 Tackles ( 2019 )


Thats a huge difference .

a is wagner ... we all know who b is .
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
66,953
Reaction score
84,378
I've stated time and time again the Jaylon hate stems from him being his own man and trying to create a business and company. They like their players to shut up and tackle and bash their heads in.

That guy has some growing to do on the field but this team did him no favors.

I thought it came from him playing like crap compared to his 2018 season.

I'm glad he had nice stats though but he underachieved by his own standard that he set the season before.

He's still awesome at getting after the QB but I guess they don't have stats for taking bad angles and acting like an idiot when the team is losing.
 

John813

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,192
Reaction score
33,993
Bradie James used to lead the team in tackles every year, then Sean Lee happened and our linebacking corps got better. Tackles don’t really mean much if your defense is not out there making stops consistently.

That being said, he wasn’t the main problem on defense; every player/coach deserves some criticism for the year(except for maybe LP Ladouceur). I feel like their biggest downfall was the team, in all phases, did not play cohesively enough to be where they wanted to be.

A linebacker can have a 20 tackle game. Is it from him being late to the hole and then getting the runner after the first down multiple times or was it a NFC player of the week showing with game breaking stops forcing 3 and outs?

Tackle stat line can't tell you that.

Going back to 2018, the stats can't show LVE's impact stopping runners against Atlanta or versus the Colts. He had 8 tackles in both games. One game he had a key stop, shedding two blockers to get to the runner and was a cog in the defense stand vs a potent offense. Another game the defense had no answer for Marlon Mack.
 

Bob-Lillys-War

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
24,793
Player A. 19.5 Sacks (2019)

Player B. 2.5 sacks (2019)

a is shaquil barrett . we all know who b is .
 

foofighters

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,257
Reaction score
6,798
So there's some threads and posts floating around that are flat out ludacris. A guy just posted that Jaylon is an embarrassment to the organization so I feel compelled to offer you this:

Player A: 144 tackles (81 solo), 0 sacks. 2 ints

Player B: 142 tackles (83 solo), 2.5 sacks, 1 ints

Player A is Luke Kuechly
Player B is Jaylon Smith


Jaylon had the 6th most tackles in the entire NFL (3 solo tackles behind league leader Bobby Wagner; largely regarded as the best LB in the NFL). Jaylon also had .5 less sacks and the same number of INTs as Wagner.

To say Jaylon is an embarrassment to this organization is an embarrassing thing to say - the guy isn't even in his prime yet and had to deal with idiots like Robert Quinn not being able to stop the run or screens to save his damn life (the guy had 26 solo tackles in 2019). Quinn was sack hunting the whole season so he could get a big contract & it compromised this whole defense (especially the LBs - in my opinion). I get some of you are in love with Quinn because sacks (the most overrated thing in all of football) make people fall in love with players. If I'm the Cowboys I couldn't get rid of Quinn fast enough & this Jaylon Smith slander needs to stop - it's ridiculous.
#hotboyz4lyphe #itsalifestyle #yolo
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
74,954
Reaction score
69,483
I thought it came from him playing like crap compared to his 2018 season.

I'm glad he had nice stats though but he underachieved by his own standard that he set the season before.

He's still awesome at getting after the QB but I guess they don't have stats for taking bad angles and acting like an idiot when the team is losing.

There’s nothing wrong with being disappointed by his play but it doesn’t warrant hate.
 

Dreski

Well-Known Member
Messages
534
Reaction score
930
A linebacker can have a 20 tackle game. Is it from him being late to the hole and then getting the runner after the first down multiple times or was it a NFC player of the week showing with game breaking stops forcing 3 and outs?

Tackle stat line can't tell you that.

Going back to 2018, the stats can't show LVE's impact stopping runners against Atlanta or versus the Colts. He had 8 tackles in both games. One game he had a key stop, shedding two blockers to get to the runner and was a cog in the defense stand vs a potent offense. Another game the defense had no answer for Marlon Mack.
I agree. I believe LVE and Jaylon Smith both have their best football in front of them, here’s hoping that the new coaches have them play to their strengths; but it will be up to LVE and Smith to continue to put in work
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
66,953
Reaction score
84,378
There’s nothing wrong with being disappointed by his play but it doesn’t warrant hate.

I'm not hating.. I was disappointed. He's better then that.

At least if he turns into a mediocre linebacker that gives up big plays maybe we can use him as a rush guy and not be totally ripped off by his contract.
 

ondaedg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
3,034
“The only thing a tackle tells you about the play is who ended it,” says Sam Monson, senior analyst at Pro Football Focus, a digital outfit that watches every NFL play and takes its time in recording dozens of facts about each one, including which player(s) made the tackle. “A tackle doesn't tell you where [it happened], how bad the damage was before the tackle was made, whether the eventual tackler missed three tackles [earlier in the play] or whether he made the tackle five yards in the backfield. There's nothing to suggest that a guy with 200 tackles played better than a guy with 100. He just made more tackles."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/18/nfl-tackling-history-stat-leaders-lavonte-david
 

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!
Messages
16,253
Reaction score
12,758
Come back to me once you've warched the game film in this thread and we can discuss. Better yet watch Jaylon on all four of Aaron Jones' touchdowns against us. Or all 100yds of Dalvin Cooks' screen passes. Film doesn't lie. And guess what he is making alot of tackles 20+ yds downfield.

:thumbup:
Oh tay.

But I will also watch some highlights from 2018.

So why in your opinion the reason for the downturn in his play?

Was he hurt?
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,015
“The only thing a tackle tells you about the play is who ended it,” says Sam Monson, senior analyst at Pro Football Focus, a digital outfit that watches every NFL play and takes its time in recording dozens of facts about each one, including which player(s) made the tackle. “A tackle doesn't tell you where [it happened], how bad the damage was before the tackle was made, whether the eventual tackler missed three tackles [earlier in the play] or whether he made the tackle five yards in the backfield. There's nothing to suggest that a guy with 200 tackles played better than a guy with 100. He just made more tackles."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/18/nfl-tackling-history-stat-leaders-lavonte-david

“Buh Jaylon wuz 6th in tackles!!!” = “Buh Jamies wuz 1st in passin yards!!!”
 
Last edited:
Top