Byron Jones the worst in the modern era

This is why I do not think Dallas will keep him... I want my CBs taking the ball away.

stasheroo said:

Yeah, it's not him, it's 'us'...

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It is.

Jones has been consistently rated among the top cornerbacks in the league the past two seasons. Quarterbacks don't throw his way as much and he allows a fairly low completion percentage when they do. The only thing he doesn't do well is intercept passes.

gimmesix said:

It is.

Jones has been consistently rated among the top cornerbacks in the league the past two seasons. Quarterbacks don't throw his way as much and he allows a fairly low completion percentage when they do. The only thing he doesn't do well is intercept passes.

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A key requirement to being a playmaking differencemaker worthy of a big contract.

starfan1 said:

as there are stats that rank dak in the top 10. Stats can be misleading and they can be indicators. That said I hope we keep him but I'm ok with him going if they have a solid replacement plan. I really don't consider anyone on this team elite at their position that don't play on the Oline and even their play has not been the same. Perhaps Zeke

But then again that's a personal view not everyone shares

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I completely agree about stats in general. However, I would argue that a corner's play is generally easier to evaluate\quantify than most other positions because everything is in "space" and less subjective compared to say interior line play.

I tend to gauge elite relative to the position. For instance, although there are 64 starting outside CB's in the league, you could easily argue that there aren't 64 CB's that "deserve" the label starter. Just for round numbers, lets say we agreed on 50. So when a CB passes the eye test as a top 10 CB & the numbers also back that up, in my mind he's one of 10 people on the planet that can perform the task at that level. For me, that is elite. In actuality, the differences between the guy who is #1 and the guy who is #10 is probably more about situations than talent. For QB's the difference between 1 & 10 is huge.

To your point, Byron is one of the few on the team I could make the elite argument about that is why i responded to your post. Hope i have at least explained my viewpoint.

McKDaddy said:

I completely agree about stats in general. However, I would argue that a corner's play is generally easier to evaluate\quantify than most other positions because everything is in "space" and less subjective compared to say interior line play.

I tend to gauge elite relative to the position. For instance, although there are 64 starting outside CB's in the league, you could easily argue that there aren't 64 CB's that "deserve" the label starter. Just for round numbers, lets say we agreed on 50. So when a CB passes the eye test as a top 10 CB & the numbers also back that up, in my mind he's one of 10 people on the planet that can perform the task at that level. For me, that is elite. In actuality, the differences between the guy who is #1 and the guy who is #10 is probably more about situations than talent. For QB's the difference between 1 & 10 is huge.

To your point, Byron is one of the few on the team I could make the elite argument about that is why i responded to your post. Hope i have at least explained my viewpoint.

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I get that alot of us fans disagree on personnel on how good they are or how much value they provide to the team etc. I appreciate your response and like I said I hope we keep him. as much as like Quinn if it came down to him and Byron id chose Byron.

That said I don't value Byron as high as cooper and Dak and quite frankly if it wasn't for the chemistry between coop and Dak if one of those top 3 receivers were sitting there in the draft at 17 Id be tempted to let Cooper walk. Hes a Jekyll and Hyde guy

CowboysWillRise said:

Thats typical. Dbs leave Dallas and do very well, yet some dont think coaching is a big part of why we dont get turnovers.

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who exactly?

Brandon Carr went without an interception last season...he’s had 6 in 3 years, average of 2 a season. Better than us by a bit but you can argue his 4 interception year with Baltimore was an anomaly.

Barry Church lasted two seasons and I believe he’s out of the league. Claiborne averages about the same in interceptions..his problem was he couldn’t stay healthy. He’s still the same in that regard and is a JAG.

Terence Newman did better with interceptions when he was a Cowboy. He had a long successful career with the Cowboys..he just lost confidence his last year here and was best for both parties that they went their separate ways. Newman made the pro bowl as a Cowboy twice, never again.

I know the Chiefs have a guy we cut in training camp, I don’t count that exactly...we just drafted 3 DB’s and had Byron.

so who exactly has done very well? Seems like to me...they’re still average players when they leave the Cowboys. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single DB we let go and they became a pro bowler somewhere else...for that regard there isn’t many players we let go that transform into a pro bowl player on another team.

And the pro bowl is a joke.

CATCH17 said:

I get that the number is low but how often is the guy he is covering targeted compared to the rest of the league?

BTW, we had him playing safety for a couple of years.

Either one of those teams in the Superbowl would love to have Byron Jones. Losing Byron is not a good thing.

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Personally, I want a defense that makes plays. I’ll take a 15th ranked yardage defense that is top 10 in interceptions over a top 5 yardage defense that is dead last in interceptions.

For all the weight you put on a player like Zeke to break a long run or a player like Dak to win tough games..you should be just as tough on our defense for not being opportunistic.

Drew Brees went 4 out of 5 seasons only winning 7 games with the Saints..suddenly he’s the GOAT again when they build a defense that makes plays. Any offense or any QB is going to struggle at times when they’re expected to go the length of the field every time they touch the ball.

robjay04 said:

Personally, I want a defense that makes plays. I’ll take a 15th ranked yardage defense that is top 10 in interceptions over a top 5 yardage defense that is dead last in interceptions.

For all the weight you put on a player like Zeke to break a long run or a player like Dak to win tough games..you should be just as tough on our defense for not being opportunistic.

Drew Brees went 4 out of 5 seasons only winning 7 games with the Saints..suddenly he’s the GOAT again when they build a defense that makes plays. Any offense or any QB is going to struggle at times when they’re expected to go the length of the field every time they touch the ball.

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I want Zeke to make big plays because he is a 15 million dollar a year RB.

I want Byron to stop other teams from making big plays.

Turnovers will come from a pass rush that causes QB errors. It would also help if QB's targeted him more too.

Aven8 said:

Since these stats started in 1970 for corners that played at least 70 games, Jones only has two interceptions. Two folks! Next on the list has 5 in that span. He hasn’t had an int in two years as well. Mind boggling.

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he doesnt get a lot of passes thrown his way.

hes a lock down corner.

CATCH17 said:

I want Zeke to make big plays because he is a 15 million dollar a year RB.

I want Byron to stop other teams from making big plays.

Turnovers will come from a pass rush that causes QB errors. It would also help if QB's targeted him more too.

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Do you believe this team wins at least two extra games with a defense that is even middle of the pack in turnovers?

I think you’ll probably say yes and this is why I am not as hard on Dak as you are. We’ve seen Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers struggle to win games in this league and most consider them to be elite but we hold Dak to different standards compared to “elite” players.

10 of the top 11 teams in turnover differential were in the playoffs. Our offense was definitely good enough to press opposing offenses to score so that’s not on Dak. Are the “elite” QB’s really that elite or are they gifted with a defense that forces turnovers and/or gifts them the occasional short field?

I remember seeing a stat during the season that the Dallas offense had the worst starting field position by far...that is the biggest problem on this team. No QB will consistently perform given those circumstances. No playoff QB was asked to.

Use byrons money for a dt and a starter level cb

robjay04 said:

Do you believe this team wins at least two extra games with a defense that is even middle of the pack in turnovers?

I think you’ll probably say yes and this is why I am not as hard on Dak as you are. We’ve seen Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers struggle to win games in this league and most consider them to be elite but we hold Dak to different standards compared to “elite” players.

10 of the top 11 teams in turnover differential were in the playoffs. Our offense was definitely good enough to press opposing offenses to score so that’s not on Dak. Are the “elite” QB’s really that elite or are they gifted with a defense that forces turnovers and/or gifts them the occasional short field?

I remember seeing a stat during the season that the Dallas offense had the worst starting field position by far...that is the biggest problem on this team.

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I don't believe we can put a 49ers type of team around Dak and that is what we will need to even have a chance with him.

Tell Aaron Rodgers to take a paycut and maybe he will win again.

Everything correlates to that contract and I don't even think there is 1 outlier we can point to who takes up a ton of cap space and wins Lombardi's.

CATCH17 said:

I don't believe we can put a 49ers type of team around Dak and that is what we will need to even have a chance with him.

Tell Aaron Rodgers to take a paycut and maybe he will win again.

Everything correlates to that contract and I don't even think there is 1 outlier we can point to who takes up a ton of cap space and wins Lombardi's.

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Part of that reason is the dominance of the Pats. That kind of skews the numbers a bit in your favor.

Saints, Falcons, Packers, Vikings, Panthers, Broncos all put together Super Bowl caliber teams while paying a QB big money. It can be done...you just have to draft well.

It doesn’t matter if Dak is making 4 million or 40 million...we aren’t winning more than 8 games with a negative turnover differential and he’s not the reason for that.

only team with a worse differential or negative that made the playoffs were the Eagles and neither of us deserved it.

CATCH17 said:

I get that the number is low but how often is the guy he is covering targeted compared to the rest of the league?

BTW, we had him playing safety for a couple of years.

Either one of those teams in the Superbowl would love to have Byron Jones. Losing Byron is not a good thing.

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I agree...He might not get turnovers but he's the best Corner on the team.

CATCH17 said:

I don't believe we can put a 49ers type of team around Dak and that is what we will need to even have a chance with him.

Tell Aaron Rodgers to take a paycut and maybe he will win again.

Everything correlates to that contract and I don't even think there is 1 outlier we can point to who takes up a ton of cap space and wins Lombardi's.

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https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...-aaron-rodgers-contract-history-with-packers/

araon was on his second contract when packers won it all in 2010.
now you make a decent argument with % of cap invested in QB but there are several examples of it being done
Year Name Cap %
1994 Young 13.1%
1995 Aikman 6.7%
1996 Favre 10.2%
1997 Elway 5.2%
1998 Elway 5.0%
1999 Warner 1.3%
2000 Dilfer 1.6%
2001 Brady 0.47%
2002 Johnson 9.6%
2003 Brady 4.4%
2004 Brady 6.3%
2005 Roethlisberger 4.9%
2006 P. Manning 10.4%
2007 E. Manning 9.2%
2008 Roethlisberger 6.8%
2009 Brees 8.3%
2011 E. Manning 11.7%
2012 Flacco 6.6%
2013 Wilson 0.56%
2015 P.Manning 12.2%

The only reason Brady isn't a higher amount is because of Giselle. I don't see Dak as good as some of these guys but I also think hes better than E.Manning or lets say hes capable of going on a manning run. At this point they are tied to him they should have dumped Garrett years ago then they may have a title

starfan1 said:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...-aaron-rodgers-contract-history-with-packers/

araon was on his second contract when packers won it all in 2010.
now you make a decent argument with % of cap invested in QB but there are several examples of it being done
Year Name Cap %
1994 Young 13.1%
1995 Aikman 6.7%
1996 Favre 10.2%
1997 Elway 5.2%
1998 Elway 5.0%
1999 Warner 1.3%
2000 Dilfer 1.6%
2001 Brady 0.47%
2002 Johnson 9.6%
2003 Brady 4.4%
2004 Brady 6.3%
2005 Roethlisberger 4.9%
2006 P. Manning 10.4%
2007 E. Manning 9.2%
2008 Roethlisberger 6.8%
2009 Brees 8.3%
2011 E. Manning 11.7%
2012 Flacco 6.6%
2013 Wilson 0.56%
2015 P.Manning 12.2%

The only reason Brady isn't a higher amount is because of Giselle. I don't see Dak as good as some of these guys but I also think hes better than E.Manning or lets say hes capable of going on a manning run. At this point they are tied to him they should have dumped Garrett years ago then they may have a title

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Yeah.. The list does nothing but confirm that Dak is gonna need the weapons around him to get on this list unless you're thinking he will turn into one of the guys you highlighted.

Also, Eli had a defense... We're investing in offense..

Keep drafting these CB/S hybrids like Jones and Awuzie, this is what you get. Need to draft more instinctual good CBs. Dallas has been more worried about measurables than guys who can actually play the position well.

Jones is a great athlete who has learned to play the technique coached by Richard, but his instincts are lacking.

CATCH17 said:

I need to see times targeted.

I think if there was a cornerback draft right now and all things were equal that Ramsey would be the #1 corner taken and he's getting like 2 or 3 picks a year.

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2 or 3 picks a year is a far cry from zero.

Turnovers are one of if not the most important stat for winning.

2 or 3 extra picks could easily be the difference in winning another game or two.

I’m not against Byron. I like him a lot. But the complete lack of turnovers is a problem.

I would like to see him playing with a better coaching staff though.

CATCH17 said:

Yeah.. The list does nothing but confirm that Dak is gonna need the weapons around him to get on this list unless you're thinking he will turn into one of the guys you highlighted.

Also, Eli had a defense... We're investing in offense..

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No I am not sure that Dak can’t be continue to improve but I was saying basically I understand your points but it’s not impossible the giants defense was good but Eli had magical runs and Dak can be that

Ranching said:

Well then, we better not sign Dak so we can afford to keep BJ!!! Lol! I have to admit, he has nice initials.

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You sir, are winning at life