3-4 Base DEF now most popular in NFL

[Majic]

I've done the maths, and with the Cowboys, Packers and Bills now moving to a 3-4 base there are now 18 teams in the same position with only 14 in a 4-3 base. Now before anyone posts nickel is the new base, let me make the following points:

1) The 'player type' in terms of measurables is different between the two
2) The coaching staff you need is different between the two.

Makes the draft and free agency very competitive. Fortunately it looks like we are putting the correct coaching staff together to make the switch and are ahead of the Packers and Bills in this respect.

Many on this forum have been calling for this change for several years and thank goodness it is finally happening. The only disappointment for me is no Micah. He would have been great. The Packers have been smart enough to see this and switch schemes as they have had the chance with their DEF Coordinator moving to Miami

 

[big dog cowboy]

So are you calling the Cowboys 5 man DL a 3-4 defense?

 

[Majic]

So are you calling the Cowboys 5 man DL a 3-4 defense?

Effectively Yes

 

[jazzcat22]

So many hybrid defenses now seem to be used.
So are there really any traditional 4-3 or 3-4 defenses left?

 

[Majic]

So many hybrid defenses now seem to be used.
So are there really any traditional 4-3 or 3-4 defenses left?

But its a different player and coach depending on the base that you look for.. That is my point.
Do you think the Patriots or Steelers would have traded up to draft Shemar James?

 

[jazzcat22]

But its a different player and coach depending on the base that you look for.. That is my point.
Do you think the Patriots or Steelers would have traded up to draft Shemar James?

We will never know if they would have. It is all speculation. And fans will use that to bag on the team for it. Claiming other teams would never do that.
Guess what, other teams do just that.
I will wait to see year 2 from him under better coaching.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Base defense is played 25% of the time. Base defense is really the sub defense. Nickel defense is now base.

 

[speedkilz88]

So are you calling the Cowboys 5 man DL a 3-4 defense?

A 3-4 is literally 3 DL and 2 OLB which is a 5 man front to the eye. In nickel one of those DL comes off the field in exchange for a CB.

 

[gimmesix]

So are you calling the Cowboys 5 man DL a 3-4 defense?

It will be. Stephen is calling it a five-man line, but either way you essentially have three defensive tackles and two defensive ends. The main difference is how you label them. In the 3-4, the ends are considered OLBs while if they call it a 5-2, then they'll just refer to them as DEs. The responsibilities are essentially the same because you can't rush five on every play. One of the ends will drop into coverage (short zone) on most plays.

 

[Majic]

N

Base defense is played 25% of the time. Base defense is really the sub defense. Nickel defense is now base.

Nothing to do with original post

 

[thunderpimp91]

While true I would caution anyone on expecting a huge shift because of the 4-3 vs 3-4 stuff. Most of the 3-4s that are ran today in functionality are 4-3 defenses. The discussion around modern day defenses really should be about even/odd fronts and gap responsibilities. Trying to define players as 4-3 or 3-4 guys is mostly a thing of the past.

 

[Majic]

While true I would caution anyone on expecting a huge shift because of the 4-3 vs 3-4 stuff. Most of the 3-4s that are ran today in functionality are 4-3 defenses. The discussion around modern day defenses really should be about even/odd fronts and gap responsibilities. Trying to define players as 4-3 or 3-4 guys is mostly a thing of the past.

I dispute that part of your post

 

[speedkilz88]

Base defense is played 25% of the time. Base defense is really the sub defense. Nickel defense is now base.

It matters if the team runs 3 WR sets as their base. Which a lot of teams do.

 

[Parcells4Life]

It matters if the team runs 3 WR sets as their base. Which a lot of teams do.

When teams run the 3 WR then defenses run 4 down with 5 DBs. This 3-4/4-3 uproar is really much to do about nothing unless you’re playing the rams/eagles and we’ll see how the Ravens change with their new staff.

Rams ran almost 40% 13 personnel this year.

 

[speedkilz88]

When teams run the 3 WR then defenses run 4 down with 5 DBs. This 3-4/4-3 uproar is really much to do about nothing unless you’re playing the rams/eagles and we’ll see how the Ravens change with their new staff.

Rams ran almost 40% 13 personnel this year.

Yes, that's nickel which is what you commented on.

 

[charron]

Pretty much every team uses some form of multiple so there really isn't a 4334 anymore. Dallas wasn't trying to do a 3-4 last year. We had to put five on the line because we had to in order to stop to run. That doesn't make them a 3-4 team. They're going to actually run a true 3-4. I doubt it. Are they going to run five guys on the line probably. Will some of the ends drop in the coverage on occasion? Also, that's a probability, seems likely.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Pretty much every team uses some form of multiple so there really isn't a 4334 anymore. Dallas wasn't trying to do a 3-4 last year. We had to put five on the line because we had to in order to stop to run. That doesn't make them a 3-4 team. They're going to actually run a true 3-4. I doubt it. Are they going to run five guys on the line probably. Will some of the ends drop in the coverage on occasion? Also, that's a probability, seems likely.

Yep. 3-4 will be a look they give. But I’d be shocked if it makes them invest in a ton of MLBs. The second MLB would probably only play 15 snaps a game if that. Average offensive snaps per game this year was 60-65. So 25% of that is 15-16.

The second MLB is like having Malik Davis for RB2. He’d play and it’s nice to have him, but don’t need to break the bank for a rotational guy.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I dispute that part of your post

How so?

Last year:

• TJ Watt had 863 defensive snaps....857 of them were on the DL, 3 deeper in the box... 855 of those were lined up outside the tackle...48 snaps in coverage
• Micah Parsons had 707 snaps....665 were on the DL, 42 were deeper in the box...599 outside the tackle, 52 over the tackle, 14 down in the B gap...7 snaps in coverage
• Myles Garrett had 859 snaps.....859 were on the DL.....831 were outside the tackle, 24 over the tackle, 4 down in the B gap....0 snaps in coverage

3 dominant edge players in 3 different systems....all pretty much used the same ways once you remove the labels. The differences are pretty slim.

Quinnen Williams with the Jets and Cowboys was mostly a B gap player. The Cowboys moved him around a bit more than the Jets did, but the assignments were mostly the same. Just looking at the Cowboys roster from last year....Clowney has played in both systems, so has Clark, so has fowler, So has Thomas. I doubt EZ or Houston would have much issue transitioning to either scheme.

I think the days of showing up to the draft and saying "Thats a 3-4 guy so lets pick this other player" are long gone.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It matters with some players. Nik Bonitto is a very good rusher, but would you want his hand on the ground in a 43 base defense against the run? I wouldn't.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

So are you calling the Cowboys 5 man DL a 3-4 defense?

From what I have read it'll almost be like a 3-3-5. The Cowboys will mix and match the five man fronts. Sometimes 3 DT's and 2 edge/LBs, sometimes 4 DL, a LB and a safety, and so on.

It's a 5 man front in terms of numbers but not necessarily 5 DL fronts. It's about being multiple and not static like Eberflus was.