4 Drafts in a row, 1st pick considered top player at their position.

[SilverStarCowboy]

It seems to me that picking the best Center in the draft was a no brainer, all the armchair coaches in this forum would have you believe that we could have still had him by the time we get to our 15th pick in the second round. No disputing the O-line was the glaring weakness that needed to be addressed this year. Not the exotic pick as far as position goes, but look at the past 3 years how we mightily struggled with the center position, all we did is most likely solidify the postion for the next 10 years barring any injuries. The man was considered the lineman with the highest football IQ in terms of directing the line and recognizing defenses. If he turns out to be a Mangold type of player for us, this whining from others are all moot.

Watching the Dallas War Room from the arm chair it was easy to tell that Dallas valued Datone Jones greatly but he was taken by the Packers.

 

[noshame]

He may be the only center in the draft who has the potential to handle NT's one on one.

I like the pick.

 

[Sasquatch]

Our red zone and third down offense just got a lot better.

This is why I am most happy. No more DT colliding with our RB two yards behind the LOS on 3rd and 1.

 

[Teague31]

Getting what a few people regarded as the best center is some great accomplishment? Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth.

It was a very thin center class. None of the centers graded out as first grade picks. And he's one of the most unathletic centers to be drafted in years. He won't be able to help at all in screens or downfield blocks. Not at all.

And to make matters worse...he likely could have been drafted in the second or even third round had we waited.

Bob Sturm said it best when the radio group was trying to spin it positively: It's putting lipstick on a pig. I'm glad he's intelligent. Hopefully he can anchor. But that's not first round value at all.

How is it that guys with virtually no posting history are suddenly showing up to defend Jerry's stupidity. Hmmmm....

Have you watched any video? He is getting to the second level ALL of the time.

 

[Miller]

Oh for crying out loud. The VAST majority of people had a second round grade on him. Do some homework.

How about you actually do some research and learn a little. Mike Mayock..who basically is one of the top guys out there...had a 3rd round grade on him. Many publications did. If you actually read my post about the value you's understand the draft and where I'm coming from. I also never said the guy was a bust or wouldn't help. I just don't like getting caught with our pants down and having to move down for incorrect value and then reaching for need. I think we could have had the D-linemen we wanted at 18 and then this same player in the 2nd...easily.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

How about you actually do some research and learn a little. Mike Mayock..who basically is one of the top guys out there...had a 3rd round grade on him. Many publications did. If you actually read my post about the value you's understand the draft and where I'm coming from. I also never said the guy was a bust or wouldn't help. I just don't like getting caught with our pants down and having to move down for incorrect value and then reaching for need. I think we could have had the D-linemen we wanted at 18 and then this same player in the 2nd...easily.

Trust me buddy, I've done a ton of research. You are obviously basing your entire opinion on Mayock's, and trust me, he's not the best judge of OLine talent. I defy you to present another "publication" that had Fredrick as a third round pick. He was universally considered upper to mid second round, and was universally considered the best center prospect. And no, we couldn't have had him at 47, and if you think we could, you obviously did not watch the draft.

 

[IrishAnto]

The point of the draft is to get value at the position you are in.

Value as perceived by whom?

The point of the draft should be to get players that can play for your team and be an improvement over the guys already on the team.

 

[Miller]

Trust me buddy, I've done a ton of research. You are obviously basing your entire opinion on Mayock's, and trust me, he's not the best judge of OLine talent. I defy you to present another "publication" that had Fredrick as a third round pick. He was universally considered upper to mid second round, and was universally considered the best center prospect. And no, we couldn't have had him at 47, and if you think we could, you obviously did not watch the draft.

I did watch the draft. Just because O-linemen went in the first doesn't mean he would go at 47 because of a run. There is superior talent left and the runs in the 2nd will be WR, S and QB.

Look at this mock and the talent and the guys going. I'm just pulling stuff off Twitter alone.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/43149/60/second-day-mock-draft?pg=1

top 20 available

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/43153/325/top-20-best-available

As for his grades besides Mayock...4th Round here

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...board-2013-matt-millers-final-rankings/page/2

Here is the one includes with Mayocks...not glowing

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/travis-frederick?id=2540161

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/travisfrederick.html

2nd or 3rd Round. #2 Center

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=41697

#1 OC but 71st Overall

Seriously start looking around the NFL landscape. EVERY one of these publications, even the ones with better grades had a slow guy who couldn't get to the 2nd level. Again, there is a difference between not liking a guy and not liking where we picked him.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Getting what a few people regarded as the best center is some great accomplishment? Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth.

It was a very thin center class. None of the centers graded out as first grade picks. And he's one of the most unathletic centers to be drafted in years. He won't be able to help at all in screens or downfield blocks. Not at all.

And to make matters worse...he likely could have been drafted in the second or even third round had we waited.

Bob Sturm said it best when the radio group was trying to spin it positively: It's putting lipstick on a pig. I'm glad he's intelligent. Hopefully he can anchor. But that's not first round value at all.

How is it that guys with virtually no posting history are suddenly showing up to defend Jerry's stupidity. Hmmmm....

we all have opinions, and I don't fault opinions.

but what fans like you fail to realize, is the franchises spend millions on recruitment. mediots don't spend the money on this process, they ask gm's and rely on second hand info

I have long envied the giants for sticking with their board, even though the media grills them. They always are claimed to reaching for someone or other, yet t works for them.

I think part of fans dillusion is they spend so much time evaluating things themselves, and when teams start grabbing Longs, Pughs, and Fredericks in the first, it shows that fans are just playing house like kids in the basement do. pretending to be all grown up and part of the real world, but they aren't.

 

[Miller]

Value as perceived by whom?

The point of the draft should be to get players that can play for your team and be an improvement over the guys already on the team.

then why have draft grades? I am all for going for BPA mixed with need but the reality of this situation is that we could have picked at 18 and gotten a D-lineman that slipped and who was considered a top talent and then could have gotten an O-lineman in the 2nd. Most mocks and grades have panned out this way. As I keep saying, its not like I don't like this guy. I don't like how Jerry looked lost, desperately traded back and then took a guy with a lower grade in the 1st when you could have still gotten similar value later.

 

[DanTanna]

HoustonFrog you are speaking in absolutes and you can't do that. It also makes you look really bad. You don't know if TF would have been the very next player picked or not. Yet you speak like it is a matter of fact. You take one guys opinion and treat it as fact yet disregard others. You can't do that and have people take to seriously.

Did the draft so far turn out perfect? No way. I was wondering if Jerry and co would try to help Romo and get an OL, they did so I'm happy about that. As a poster above wrote, I'm tired of Romo dodging DTs who bully our center and completely blow up plays 1 second from the snap. This guy is a bruiser - think Leonard Davis with a 43 wonderlic and a motor.

Enough with the absolutes.

 

[IrishAnto]

then why have draft grades? I am all for going for BPA mixed with need but the reality of this situation is that we could have picked at 18 and gotten a D-lineman that slipped and who was considered a top talent and then could have gotten an O-lineman in the 2nd. Most mocks and grades have panned out this way. As I keep saying, its not like I don't like this guy. I don't like how Jerry looked lost, desperately traded back and then took a guy with a lower grade in the 1st when you could have still gotten similar value later.

But you're going on the draft grades as supplied by Mike Mayock et al, which is obviously not what the actual teams use.

Just look at who the Giants and Bears drafted.

Did Maycok have them rated as first rounders?

Did either team add an additional 3rd round pick?

When Mayock or Kiper ever actually run a successful draft for an NFL team I might be more inclined to agree with their grades.

 

[Miller]

HoustonFrog you are speaking in absolutes and you can't do that. It also makes you look really bad. You don't know if TF would have been the very next player picked or not. Yet you speak like it is a matter of fact. You take one guys opinion and treat it as fact yet disregard others. You can't do that and have people take to seriously.

Did the draft so far turn out perfect? No way. I was wondering if Jerry and co would try to help Romo and get an OL, they did so I'm happy about that. As a poster above wrote, I'm tired of Romo dodging DTs who bully our center and completely blow up plays 1 second from the snap. This guy is a bruiser - think Leonard Davis with a 43 wonderlic and a motor.

Enough with the absolutes.

Can people not read here? I've posted in 3 threads regarding this. I've supplied multiple links backing my opinion...LOOK ABOVE. They aren't absolutes. the draft is about taking all the information you have and then making informed decisions. Even if we didn't get TF, there were similarly rated guys at 47. I've supplied mocks, the lists of the remaining players left, etc. If you look at all information in totality the 2nd round will be a place where there are runs on WR, QB and LB. Taking that into account along with what was left, it was a reach. I'm not just quoting Mayock, the Ticket read off 5 reports that had the guy low 2nd or below. I supplied various other scouting reports. People are so quick to attack without reading the given information. We moved down 13 spots and only got a 3rd. We then parlayed that into a guy that MOST had going much lower. With all that in hand, I would not call that a success. Even liking the player, I don't like the drafting in general. There are no absolutes in that equation. The kid himself said he didn't expect to go until the 2nd. So that is his agent and people telling him best case. We are talking about what value we are getting for our picks and record here, not if the kid is a good guy. The draft is sorted worst to first for a reason,...to help bad teams. We pick in the middle because we aren't a top team. Yet we traded down to pick with the good teams and took a guy not expected to go until a round or 2 later.

 

[newlander]

You could not be more wrong. If you have watched this kid play at all you would know that he pulled a lot in Wisconsin and he did it well. Don't let 40 times confuse you with football speed. Frederick will be fast enough. He is a masher in the running game and has enough power and base strength to anchor the pivot in pass pro.

....my estimate would be about 20 UW games and he pulled great against Minnesotat, Indiana, UTEP, etc....when facing Michigan State, Stanford, Ohio State he couldn't come CLOSE to emulating that. He will struggle BIG time vs. speedy defenses in pulling. That said, maybe we dont' WANT him to pull that much...he's a straight ahead road grader plain and simple...a mauler in the run game and stout in pass protection inside...not a disaster, but do NOT tell me he'll get to the 2nd level against defensive teams like the Giants and Skins cause he won't.

 

[IrishAnto]

Can people not read here? I've posted in 3 threads regarding this. I've supplied multiple links backing my opinion...LOOK ABOVE. They aren't absolutes. the draft is about taking all the information you have and then making informed decisions. Even if we didn't get TF, there were similarly rated guys at 47. I've supplied mocks, the lists of the remaining players left, etc. If you look at all information in totality the 2nd round will be a place where there are runs on WR, QB and LB. Taking that into account along with what was left, it was a reach. I'm not just quoting Mayock, the Ticket read off 5 reports that had the guy low 2nd or below. I supplied various other scouting reports. People are so quick to attack without reading the given information. We moved down 13 spots and only got a 3rd. We then parlayed that into a guy that MOST had going much lower. With all that in hand, I would not call that a success. Even liking the player, I don't like the drafting in general. There are no absolutes in that equation. The kid himself said he didn't expect to go until the 2nd. So that is his agent and people telling him best case. We are talking about what value we are getting for our picks and record here, not if the kid is a good guy. The draft is sorted worst to first for a reason,...to help bad teams. We pick in the middle because we aren't a top team. Yet we traded down to pick with the good teams and took a guy not expected to go until a round or 2 later.

Why don't we let the draft finish first and then we might be better able to judge the trade.

Even then we won't know for sure for three or more years just how good this draft is.

We got good grades for our 2008 draft, how do they look now?

 

[burmafrd]

its like explaining color to a blind man


This was a weird draft. By the time of our pick the way the O line was being grabbed we made a decision to take Fredrick as there was a VERY GOOD CHANCE he would be gone before our #47.

Mayock is good but you treat him like god. I can find a dozen instances where he has been DEAD WRONG about a prospect.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Can he snap the ball at the right time without pitching it over Romo's head? I'm good, then.

 

[burmafrd]

....my estimate would be about 20 UW games and he pulled great against Minnesotat, Indiana, UTEP, etc....when facing Michigan State, Stanford, Ohio State he couldn't come CLOSE to emulating that. He will struggle BIG time vs. speedy defenses in pulling. That said, maybe we dont' WANT him to pull that much...he's a straight ahead road grader plain and simple...a mauler in the run game and stout in pass protection inside...not a disaster, but do NOT tell me he'll get to the 2nd level against defensive teams like the Giants and Skins cause he won't.

guess you missed the Purdue game where he owned Short. To me that is a lot more important then whining about pulling.

A center's first duty is to snap the ball right. He is really good at that.
His second duty is to anchor the line run or pass as regards what happens right on the line of scrimmage.

Guess what? What you are whining about comes THIRD in importance.

 

[xtreme_2k]

Can people not read here? I've posted in 3 threads regarding this. I've supplied multiple links backing my opinion...LOOK ABOVE. They aren't absolutes. the draft is about taking all the information you have and then making informed decisions. Even if we didn't get TF, there were similarly rated guys at 47. I've supplied mocks, the lists of the remaining players left, etc. If you look at all information in totality the 2nd round will be a place where there are runs on WR, QB and LB. Taking that into account along with what was left, it was a reach. I'm not just quoting Mayock, the Ticket read off 5 reports that had the guy low 2nd or below. I supplied various other scouting reports. People are so quick to attack without reading the given information. We moved down 13 spots and only got a 3rd. We then parlayed that into a guy that MOST had going much lower. With all that in hand, I would not call that a success. Even liking the player, I don't like the drafting in general. There are no absolutes in that equation. The kid himself said he didn't expect to go until the 2nd. So that is his agent and people telling him best case. We are talking about what value we are getting for our picks and record here, not if the kid is a good guy. The draft is sorted worst to first for a reason,...to help bad teams. We pick in the middle because we aren't a top team. Yet we traded down to pick with the good teams and took a guy not expected to go until a round or 2 later.

...and you are vouching for all of those mediots and publications that they know exactly how the coaches will utilize the type of players we are drafting? Mayock is just one person with highly educated opinions. Sometimes he does better than NFL GM's at evaluating a prospect and other times he does worse. He also doesn't have access to an extensive scouting team, player interviews, or medical history so it is understandable that he may overvalue players that fall in the draft because of medical or character concerns. His evaluations are also strictly based on talent and not a prediction of when prospects will be drafted. In general though, the best players get drafted first and when it comes to ranking the best players, there has been consensus between Mayock and NFL GMs on who the best prospects are. This consensus weakens increasingly the longer the draft goes.

Nobody, not even NFL draft guru Mike Mayock, knows how rounds are going to shape out. Opinions on who the best players are increasingly differ as the NFL draft goes on. Looking at players in the late 2nd round range, in Mayock's rankings or any draft analyst for that matter, and deciding what prospect Seattle is going to draft at 56 would be lead to a highly inaccurate assumption. Only 40% of the players ranked from 46-66 in 2012 were drafted within this 20 pick range. The numbers are slightly worse for players ranked in the late 3rd round range, 77-97. Only 30% of these players were drafted within the 20 pick range.

His rankings are simply his opinion and far from NFL draft law. Disparate opinions on player potential are what make the NFL draft so hard to predict. The deeper the draft goes, the more disparate these opinions become. The NFL draft is an event full of mysteries and surprises, the surprises come early but the mysteries are reserved for the later rounds.

 

[NickZepp]

Maycock pretty much goes through and decides the best players regaurdless of position or need. I doubt he ever picks a kicker in the top 50 but some years kickers go in the top 50.