4 Drafts in a row, 1st pick considered top player at their position.

[AbeBeta]

I'm not even sure if the intention is for him to play center or guard honestly.

Jerry talked about how Callahan saw C as the 2nd most important line position.

Also, whenever we get our hands on a guy with "position flexibility" we always try him out at the harder to play spot first

 

[Miller]

its like explaining color to a blind man


This was a weird draft. By the time of our pick the way the O line was being grabbed we made a decision to take Fredrick as there was a VERY GOOD CHANCE he would be gone before our #47.

Mayock is good but you treat him like god. I can find a dozen instances where he has been DEAD WRONG about a prospect.

AGAIN, I'm not relying on Mayock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I posted other opinion. I'm going on the sum of the parts here. Dear Lord people.

...and you are vouching for all of those mediots and publications that they know exactly how the coaches will utilize the type of players we are drafting? Mayock is just one person with highly educated opinions. Sometimes he does better than NFL GM's at evaluating a prospect and other times he does worse. He also doesn't have access to an extensive scouting team, player interviews, or medical history so it is understandable that he may overvalue players that fall in the draft because of medical or character concerns. His evaluations are also strictly based on talent and not a prediction of when prospects will be drafted. In general though, the best players get drafted first and when it comes to ranking the best players, there has been consensus between Mayock and NFL GMs on who the best prospects are. This consensus weakens increasingly the longer the draft goes.

Nobody, not even NFL draft guru Mike Mayock, knows how rounds are going to shape out. Opinions on who the best players are increasingly differ as the NFL draft goes on. Looking at players in the late 2nd round range, in Mayock's rankings or any draft analyst for that matter, and deciding what prospect Seattle is going to draft at 56 would be lead to a highly inaccurate assumption. Only 40% of the players ranked from 46-66 in 2012 were drafted within this 20 pick range. The numbers are slightly worse for players ranked in the late 3rd round range, 77-97. Only 30% of these players were drafted within the 20 pick range.

His rankings are simply his opinion and far from NFL draft law. Disparate opinions on player potential are what make the NFL draft so hard to predict. The deeper the draft goes, the more disparate these opinions become. The NFL draft is an event full of mysteries and surprises, the surprises come early but the mysteries are reserved for the later rounds.

What is ya'll deal with Mayock????I brought him up once and posted 5 other sites with similar grades AND included links to guys still available AND analysis of who is left

THAT is what these NFL teams do. Ya'll are making this too simple minded and just stating..."well the draft is a crap shoot" so that mean no one should have an opinion. There are draft experts, scouts, etc for a reason. They have the combine for a reason. They watch film for a reason. They grade them on all these things. If they didn't the Chiefs could take the 71st rated O-lineman at #1 and say its a success because they like the kid and he fits their team. But that's not how it works. Teams rely on their data. Then they try and see who might be available when they pick. They do this by looking at the other teams needs and what positions are of heavy need. So the Cowboys only got a 3rd for moving 13 spots. They then take a guy who was rated lower. According to team needs and who is left for the second round it LOOKS like that similar value was there at 47. THAT is how it works. It isn't an exact science and you can't predict the future BUT that is what you have to do. Just chalking it up to ..."they took him because it was a need" flies in the face of any analysis.

Again, random samplings. It's just information that is useful to make an analysis. I like the kid, I don't like the pick for where we started. You also have to grade out his athleticism and other weaknesses for the area you are picking.

Look at this mock and the talent and the guys going. I'm just pulling stuff off Twitter alone.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...ock-draft?pg=1

top 20 available

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...best-available

As for his grades besides Mayock...4th Round here

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ankings/page/2

Here is the one includes with Mayocks...not glowing

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...ick?id=2540161

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/travisfrederick.html

2nd or 3rd Round. #2 Center

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...l&player=41697

#1 OC but 71st Overall

 

[IrishAnto]

According to team needs and who is left for the second round it LOOKS like that similar value was there at 47.

OK right now tell me who's going to be taken before the 47th pick and who will be there at 47?

If right now you can tell me correctly then your statement above is correct.

Otherwise you're just guessing that somebody with a similar value (for the Cowboys) to Frederick will be there.

 

[burmafrd]

AGAIN, I'm not relying on Mayock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I posted other opinion. I'm going on the sum of the parts here. Dear Lord people.



What is ya'll deal with Mayock????I brought him up once and posted 5 other sites with similar grades AND included links to guys still available AND analysis of who is left

THAT is what these NFL teams do. Ya'll are making this too simple minded and just stating..."well the draft is a crap shoot" so that mean no one should have an opinion. There are draft experts, scouts, etc for a reason. They have the combine for a reason. They watch film for a reason. They grade them on all these things. If they didn't the Chiefs could take the 71st rated O-lineman at #1 and say its a success because they like the kid and he fits their team. But that's not how it works. Teams rely on their data. Then they try and see who might be available when they pick. They do this by looking at the other teams needs and what positions are of heavy need. So the Cowboys only got a 3rd for moving 13 spots. They then take a guy who was rated lower. According to team needs and who is left for the second round it LOOKS like that similar value was there at 47. THAT is how it works. It isn't an exact science and you can't predict the future BUT that is what you have to do. Just chalking it up to ..."they took him because it was a need" flies in the face of any analysis.

Again, random samplings. It's just information that is useful to make an analysis. I like the kid, I don't like the pick for where we started. You also have to grade out his athleticism and other weaknesses for the area you are picking.

Look at this mock and the talent and the guys going. I'm just pulling stuff off Twitter alone.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...ock-draft?pg=1

top 20 available

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...best-available

As for his grades besides Mayock...4th Round here

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ankings/page/2

Here is the one includes with Mayocks...not glowing

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...ick?id=2540161

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/travisfrederick.html

2nd or 3rd Round. #2 Center

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...l&player=41697

#1 OC but 71st Overall

and I could quote just as many but am not going to waste my time. You seem to feel the need for vindication from a internet forum. That is kind of sad

 

[Miller]

OK right now tell me who's going to be taken before the 47th pick and who will be there at 47?

If right now you can tell me correctly then your statement above is correct.

Otherwise you're just guessing that somebody with a similar value (for the Cowboys) to Frederick will be there.

I KNOW someone with similar value will be there because that was how he graded out. According to what I'm seeing on multiple sites there is reason to believe that guys like OG Larry Warford (right in 44-48 range) OG Brian Winters, OG Dallas Thomas (Warford being high to mid 2nd and the others low 2nd to 3rd). That isn't even including S and other needs like S DJ Swearinger;

We have many needs. We have been 8-8 for 2 years. We need players. Taking a DT for the new scheme and taking OL, S or RB in the second to me was fine. Again, my point isn't to poopoo on the guy we took. It's to say that we moved down and got less value IMHO. I may be dead wrong depending on who we get with that 3rd. That is what it looks like to me though. We had too many needs to reach.

and I could quote just as many but am not going to waste my time. You seem to feel the need for vindication from a internet forum. That is kind of sad

What are you talking about. Grow up. So actually researching my point and making a valid statement is a "need for validation." I was told in this thread or another that there was a VASTLY overwhelming feel that our guy was rated as a high 2nd.

Oh for crying out loud. The VAST majority of people had a second round grade on him. Do some homework.

I was told that questioning the pick is just wrong when we needed OL. So me yesterday sticking up for Vacarro is foolish but me today saying we may have reached is somehow ripping the team? What is sad is that you have an overinflated idea of just your opinion. I supplied an answer to the post and now somehow that is a bad thing...presenting data and facts. Move along, its embarrassing. I'm not a poster that has ever sat her and ripped Jones. I like Romo. I'm not hating. I'm being realistic about draft values. If this is too complicated or hard for people to understand, maybe they should just stay out of talking about it. As I said 50 times, I like the kid and what he brings to the team...I don't like dropping down and getting him where we did. I'd rather have Floyd and available O-line/Safety at 47. Thanks. Remind me again why answering another person's angry post with data is a need for validation?

 

[EPL0c0]

Watch the second replay. The right side of the line caved. Ball was submarined before he ran into Frederick.

it was just the one play I remember seeing him in b/c I saw that replay many, many, many times (the only positive for my Miners).

It looked like Ball recognized the pressure coming and tried to rush it, ran into the dude's back. There was a hole and he had a blocker (Fredrick), but there was just one too many guys to block on that play.

What I saw was a Center pulling left that looked pretty decent. Not fast, but fast enough. Don't need him to be a sprinter, just get out and destroy the man in front of him.

 

[IrishAnto]

I KNOW someone with similar value will be there because that was how he graded out. According to what I'm seeing on multiple sites there is reason to believe that guys like OG Larry Warford (right in 44-48 range) OG Brian Winters, OG Dallas Thomas (Warford being high to mid 2nd and the others low 2nd to 3rd). That isn't even including S and other needs like S DJ Swearinger;

What you don't know is how the Cowboys grade them, that's the difference.

Obviously they didn't rate those guys as highly (or higher) as why wouldn't they take them instead of Frederick if they had?

As I've said before, let the draft play out and see how we go with our original picks and with the extra pick we got in the trade down.

 

[Biggems]

A guy with 5.6 speed can't pull.

did you even watch Wisconsin? Those pigs on their OL can pull right, pull left, bullrush forward, etc. Wisconsin does one thing great.....it develops NFL caliber OL.

at 47, I want Schwenke. He is big, fast, athletic, intelligent, and plays with attitude. He can play all 3 interior positions like Frederick. Having Frederick and Schwenke next to one another can only make Romo and Murray sleep so much better at night, and in a good way.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Watch film on Frederick, whiffs is non-athletic, has a lot of trouble in open space, it's obvious that he certainly won't pull with much effectiveness especially with a step up in talent... but pulling is not what he was drafted to do.

He was drafted and has the ability to match-up well with the big elite DTs around the NFL.

 

[Miller]

What you don't know is how the Cowboys grade them, that's the difference.

Obviously they didn't rate those guys as highly (or higher) as why wouldn't they take them instead of Frederick if they had?

As I've said before, let the draft play out and see how we go with our original picks and with the extra pick we got in the trade down.

And I've said that..we need to hit on that. As for how WE graded him. That is what I don't trust. I just saw another post where they said we have Floyd as a Top 10 guy and we let his pass but took this guy. So I'm not sure what the thinking was really.

 

[IrishAnto]

And I've said that..we need to hit on that. As for how WE graded him. That is what I don't trust. I just saw another post where they said we have Floyd as a Top 10 guy and we let his pass but took this guy. So I'm not sure what the thinking was really.

I don't know who posted that we had Floyd as a top 10 guy, coz I strongly suggest if that were true, then Floyd would have been the pick knowing our fondness for drafting defense.

Again no DT's taken in the top 10 leads me to think a lot of other teams didn't rate them as highly as the media did.

 

[Miller]

I don't know who posted that we had Floyd as a top 10 guy, coz I strongly suggest if that were true, then Floyd would have been the pick knowing our fondness for drafting defense.

Again no DT's taken in the top 10 leads me to think a lot of other teams didn't rate them as highly as the media did.

From this post in another thread...actually heard this on Ticket last night too

It has also been reported that

• Dallas had Floyd as 7th overall (but one said "top 15")
• They had Frederick as a 2nd round grade grouped with about 20 other players. Could have been 22nd or 42nd and the grade would have been almost identical.
• They only had 16-19 graded as 1st rounders.

Hey, if this guy starts for a decade and Dallas picks up a player with that 74th pick, things could be much worse.

I know one thing, Romo feels at least a little better today.

I think most analysts are calling this a reach--some more than others. But very few are saying tis is a bust pick or a disaster. The understand how horrendous the interior of Dallas oline was.

 

[IrishAnto]

From this post in another thread...actually heard this on Ticket last night too

I'd like to know their source.