4th and 1 Reverse...

[dcjules]

While many go on and on about a great call, I just thought I would add the fact that sometimes luck is involved....The Saints trailing 7-0 have that play called with the ball around the Dallas 36-38 yard line, when they run it, D-Ware is in position to be there, but doesnt make the play, what could have been a huge loss, giving the ball to Dallas around midfield...if we drive and score it could be 10-0, 14-0 out of the gate.....who knows from there.....

Would Payton be a genius then???? making that dumb reverse call.....its all about making plays, we didnt, they did....Roy W, plays that TD catch by Jamal James very poorly, should have been a pick, ....Keith Davis is right there for that Henderson score, another pick...but again didnt make the play....

Excuses, to some degree....but Dallas didnt make the plays.....

Maybe we should have known lady luck wasnt on our side when Ware didnt make the play....

 

[SultanOfSix]

That was a terrible play call except for the fact it worked. Had Ware played contain instead of overpursue, they would never have made the first down. Another use of misdirection that works ONLY AGAINST a Zimmer led Cowboys defense.

 

[Yeagermeister]

If Ware had gone for his feet he would have tackled him but then if a bullfrog had wings it would bump it's arse when it jumped.

 

[conner01]

the lb chased the play instead of staying at home. i suspect after watching him all last year sean knew the lb would chase the play.you can blame the staff but i suspect that lb has been told to stay at home and just did'nt do it.

 

[DTK]

Ware was probably as shocked as the rest of the free world that anyone would run a reverse on 4th and 1. Great call if it works, horrible call if it doesn't.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Ware was probably as shocked as the rest of the free world that anyone would run a reverse on 4th and 1. Great call if it works, horrible call if it doesn't.

Just like the onsides kick. Not many OS kicks work so I think it was a stupid gamble to take.

We hadn't done much offensively to that point, why take the chance of giving the Cowboys field position at your own 40 ? Why give the Cowboys the break they were looking for ?

But it worked so good for Payton.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

That was a terrible play call except for the fact it worked. Had Ware played contain instead of overpursue, they would never have made the first down. Another use of misdirection that works ONLY AGAINST a Zimmer led Cowboys defense.

In a game where most went right for Saints and less went right for Boys... it was a sign of things to come in that game.... Ware was on it...

 

[Maikeru-sama]

the lb chased the play instead of staying at home. i suspect after watching him all last year sean knew the lb would chase the play.you can blame the staff but i suspect that lb has been told to stay at home and just did'nt do it.

The real question is is that the first time they have ran that on a 4th and 1?

I have not watched many Saints games, but I just cant believe that is the first time they have ran that in that situation and did an OSK in the situation they did.

The team was ill prepared for it.

Shades of the Eagles game in 2003 comes to mind. Where we knew the Eagles liked to start the game doing OSKs and Zuriel Smith is prepared and it resulted in a TD.

So regardless, the question for me is was this the first time they had ran those particular plays?

- Mike G.

 

[alancdc]

While many go on and on about a great call, I just thought I would add the fact that sometimes luck is involved....The Saints trailing 7-0 have that play called with the ball around the Dallas 36-38 yard line, when they run it, D-Ware is in position to be there, but doesnt make the play, what could have been a huge loss, giving the ball to Dallas around midfield...if we drive and score it could be 10-0, 14-0 out of the gate.....who knows from there.....

Would Payton be a genius then???? making that dumb reverse call.....its all about making plays, we didnt, they did....Roy W, plays that TD catch by Jamal James very poorly, should have been a pick, ....Keith Davis is right there for that Henderson score, another pick...but again didnt make the play....

Excuses, to some degree....but Dallas didnt make the plays.....

Maybe we should have known lady luck wasnt on our side when Ware didnt make the play....

I swear I thought Ware had him. That is todays NFL though. You can go back on most games and it is a few plays.

 

[Achozen]

The real question is is that the first time they have ran that on a 4th and 1?

I have not watched many Saints games, but I just cant believe that is the first time they have ran that in that situation and did an OSK in the situation they did.

The team was ill prepared for it.

Shades of the Eagles game in 2003 comes to mind. Where we knew the Eagles liked to start the game doing OSKs and Zuriel Smith is prepared and it resulted in a TD.

So regardless, the question for me is was this the first time they had ran those particular plays?

- Mike G.

Randall Williams...

 

[chinch]

another lucky call sean got away with and Dware almost really made him look foolish.

but that is why they play the game on the field not the newspapers.

 

[Chuck 54]

I have to disagree with some of you...the reverse on 4th and 1 was an absolutely great call, especially early in the game like that.

Demarcus Ware has been chasing down plays from the backside in recent weeks...they saw that on film and took advantage of it on 4th down. Ware didn't really come close to making the play, just a feeble swipe because he was so out of position.

Even if they hadn't made that 4th and 1, which they did easily, it was going to change every short yardage play after that because Ware could no longer slash down the line of scrimmage...notice they ran the reverse action several more times...notice they made short yardage runs on us after that, including the goal line...plays aren't run just for the yardage, but also for the message they send the defense.

It was a genius call that just happened to also work perfectly.

 

[chinch]

^^ gotta love the cherry picking and spin when low probabilities play work out

 

[SultanOfSix]

I don't understand how anyone can claim it a "genius" call. On fourth and 1, you call a play that puts your ball carriers EIGHT yards behind the line of scrimmage and you label that as a genius play call? As you said, this was EARLY in the game. It's not like Ware has a tendency to overpursue. He's played containment extremely well in many different situations. In this case, he was fooled by a gimmick play. And he knew at least a fake reverse was coming. There was nothing that was exposed as a tendency for this to happen, either in game film, or in the course of the actual game play.

 

[Alexander]

That was a terrible play call except for the fact it worked. Had Ware played contain instead of overpursue, they would never have made the first down. Another use of misdirection that works ONLY AGAINST a Zimmer led Cowboys defense.

Actually, Zimmer is in a no-win situation with people.

First, complain he is too passive if the end stays home.

Second, complain because he is too aggressive.

I fail to see any call Zimmer made there could have been any better. It was luck that it worked. It was a bad play by Ware that allowed luck to even be a factor.

It is the player's responsibility to make the adjustments on the fly. Ware has always been inconsistent at making those type of adjustments.

This isn't the first time a plan run right at him worked because he was out of position.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It's a terrible call because you greatly increase your chances of losing yardage. If you go with a straight ahead run and you legitimately don't get it, you may luck out with a bad spot by the refs. The onside kick was even dumber considering how well the Saints offense was rolling and the last thing you'd want is for Dallas to come back and make a quick score. They both worked out, but they were dumb calls.


YAKUZA

 

[DTK]

If we ever run a reverse on 4th and 1 I'll probably throw my remote at the TV's. A reverse is a high risk, high reward type of play generally intended for big yardage. I'm sure Payton was hoping to break off a good gainer there, not just one yard. He was very fortunate there, as with the onside kick when the ball hit the guy's foot.

 

[Alexander]

It's not like Ware has a tendency to overpursue. He's played containment extremely well in many different situations. In this case, he was fooled by a gimmick play. And he knew at least a fake reverse was coming. There was nothing that was exposed as a tendency for this to happen, either in game film, or in the course of the actual game play.

He has also overpursued on sprint outs run right at him. If you think he is rarely fooled, you aren't watching closely enough. He is very inconsistent in that regard.

 

[CoCo]

4th and 1 reverse was a great call?

I'd consider it a great call if they picked up 10 yards. But they got the 1st by the skin of their teeth and almost had a significant loss on the play.

Overall I thought Payton played this game like Jimmy played the Commanders in 1991 when they were undefeated. He pulled out all the stops to keep the big gorilla on its heels. He showed no fear.

We however played scared on defense all night and got our just rewards.

 

[SultanOfSix]

He has also overpursued on sprint outs run right at him. If you think he is rarely fooled, you aren't watching closely enough. He is very inconsistent in that regard.

Every player overpursues once in a while. I said he doesn't have a "tendency" to overpursue, and he doesn't. He plays contain very well. Being "rarely" fooled is hard to quantify.