A Contract Point - QB/Houston - 9ers - Cowboys

[gjkoeppen]

The argument has taken in every possible scenario for the QB position on this board. But I heard something on the radio today which I think may have been missed. If you have suggested this, my apologies.

The cap in 2022 and past will go up and perhaps significantly. The Disney contract will have a pronounced affect on the cap. But the other affiliates who will jump on board will make a ridiculous contract for Dak much more palatable in the second year and beyond. So the antacid crowd that frets at the spending of a dime on Dak because of the world ending with his contract might take a chill pill on that account.

If it's just about the money, this scenario could cure that and then some.

Fitting his contract in the first year could be resolved with extensions and pushing the guarantee past 2021 to fit both his desires for payment and the teams position - which some claim the Cowboys will be mediocre and nothing can be done about it if Dak signs.

-----------------------------------

Second aspect was discussed on the radio. What if........

Dallas negotiated a contract with Dak and immediately traded him to the 9ers for the 12 over-all pick. Then package those to Houston for Watson. Or to Seattle for Wilson. You might have to sweeten the deal for Wilson. I am opposed to this because I do not think either guy is significantly better than what Dallas has.

Opinions?

First immediately after it was announced about the Disney deal the NFL denied it and I haven't heard anything that the NFL formally announced that contract is real so what you have based you whole idea on is based on a speculation about a deal that was denied by the NFL. Then nobody knows for sure but I very seriously doubt that if the Cowboys get Prescott signed to a contract that they will then trade him away since they have been saying for a couple years that Prescott is their QB for now and in the future.
.
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[blueblood70]

Dak has good timing.

He plays under the tag this year and then will be an unrestricted free agent when the tv contracts get renewed and the cap goes up.

Jerry’s failure to sign Dak after the 2018 season looks worse with each passing year, especially as this distraction never seems to end.

Dak won’t be involved in a trade. He’ll just wait a year and have total freedom to explore the open market.

no it wasnt,

he would have been up for new deal already or ayear from today.

Hes always wanted shorter deal and we would have paid him and hes now working on getting new deal part 2..we saved money in 2018/2019 as he only got his rookie money, his FT last year divided over those 3 years in hypothetical comp to new deal vs his current money made says we still are h]ahead and had his services and own his rights until today..i mean 4-5 year deal back in 18 puts him up for a new one and im betting hes threatening hold out on that hypothetical deal as he would feel underpaid right now..


Jerry handles this correctly IMHO. it makes zero sense to say we would be in the same situation now or in 2022 and he still would be wanting 40+ 2022 and beyond. Its not different at all..we paid far less from 2018-2020 or at least about the same as if he were on a LTC..i cant see it playing out where 2022 hes wanting 40+ so paying him his rookie salary 2018 and 2019 plus tag of 32 and if he plays under it 37 is what 76 mil over 4 years? pretty sure that plus for the DC to have played it out liek this and dont think for minute you know more then the Dallas Cowboys FO when it comes to Cap and Contracts. They knew exactly what they were doing..

 

[Flamma]

The argument has taken in every possible scenario for the QB position on this board. But I heard something on the radio today which I think may have been missed. If you have suggested this, my apologies.

The cap in 2022 and past will go up and perhaps significantly. The Disney contract will have a pronounced affect on the cap. But the other affiliates who will jump on board will make a ridiculous contract for Dak much more palatable in the second year and beyond. So the antacid crowd that frets at the spending of a dime on Dak because of the world ending with his contract might take a chill pill on that account.

If it's just about the money, this scenario could cure that and then some.

Fitting his contract in the first year could be resolved with extensions and pushing the guarantee past 2021 to fit both his desires for payment and the teams position - which some claim the Cowboys will be mediocre and nothing can be done about it if Dak signs.

-----------------------------------

Second aspect was discussed on the radio. What if........

Dallas negotiated a contract with Dak and immediately traded him to the 9ers for the 12 over-all pick. Then package those to Houston for Watson. Or to Seattle for Wilson. You might have to sweeten the deal for Wilson. I am opposed to this because I do not think either guy is significantly better than what Dallas has.

Opinions?

I brought up the possibility of the cap spiking in a different thread. But when will it spike?

The cap will be 180-185 for 2021, right? But is that what the cap should be? Or is it that high for the sake of the league and they'll be borrowing from future caps? That calls into question 2022.

 

[ghst187]

Wilson won a super bowl with one of the best defenses in NFL history and Marshawn Lynch. Now that the defense is gone where’s all his other super bowls? He is not an upgrade over Dak and certainly Not worth giving up a 1st for. Furthermore he will want a new contract in two seasons.

disagree. I don’t know anyone fan or analyst or player that would rank Dak equal to or greater than Wilson. Not sure saying Wilson only won one SB with a great D and using that to say Dak is as good or better works....since Dak has won how many? Conf championship games? Second round playoff games? Russ has singlehandedly kept Seattle relevant after the D fell apart. He’s also not coming off a serious injury.
From what I’m reading, Dak will want a new contract again in three years and it sounds like he wants more than Wilson which I find absurd.

 

[GMO415]

The argument has taken in every possible scenario for the QB position on this board. But I heard something on the radio today which I think may have been missed. If you have suggested this, my apologies.

The cap in 2022 and past will go up and perhaps significantly. The Disney contract will have a pronounced affect on the cap. But the other affiliates who will jump on board will make a ridiculous contract for Dak much more palatable in the second year and beyond. So the antacid crowd that frets at the spending of a dime on Dak because of the world ending with his contract might take a chill pill on that account.

If it's just about the money, this scenario could cure that and then some.

Fitting his contract in the first year could be resolved with extensions and pushing the guarantee past 2021 to fit both his desires for payment and the teams position - which some claim the Cowboys will be mediocre and nothing can be done about it if Dak signs.

-----------------------------------

Second aspect was discussed on the radio. What if........

Dallas negotiated a contract with Dak and immediately traded him to the 9ers for the 12 over-all pick. Then package those to Houston for Watson. Or to Seattle for Wilson. You might have to sweeten the deal for Wilson. I am opposed to this because I do not think either guy is significantly better than what Dallas has.

Opinions?

Seattle and Houston will want a QB in return along with the picks.....

 

[CouchCoach]

The argument has taken in every possible scenario for the QB position on this board. But I heard something on the radio today which I think may have been missed. If you have suggested this, my apologies.

The cap in 2022 and past will go up and perhaps significantly. The Disney contract will have a pronounced affect on the cap. But the other affiliates who will jump on board will make a ridiculous contract for Dak much more palatable in the second year and beyond. So the antacid crowd that frets at the spending of a dime on Dak because of the world ending with his contract might take a chill pill on that account.

If it's just about the money, this scenario could cure that and then some.

Fitting his contract in the first year could be resolved with extensions and pushing the guarantee past 2021 to fit both his desires for payment and the teams position - which some claim the Cowboys will be mediocre and nothing can be done about it if Dak signs.

-----------------------------------

Second aspect was discussed on the radio. What if........

Dallas negotiated a contract with Dak and immediately traded him to the 9ers for the 12 over-all pick. Then package those to Houston for Watson. Or to Seattle for Wilson. You might have to sweeten the deal for Wilson. I am opposed to this because I do not think either guy is significantly better than what Dallas has.

Opinions?

It didn't take the NFL long to respond to the report that Disney had agreed to the MNF/SB package. They shot that down and that tells us one thing, that was too low and they didn't want the other nets to react to that.

 

[DFWJC]

Paul Hembekides
@PaulHembo
Highest cap hits from 2014-19: Matthew Stafford ($130M) Ben Roethlisberger ($128M) Aaron Rodgers ($126M) Drew Brees ($125M) Eli Manning ($124M) Matt Ryan ($118M) Philip Rivers ($117M) Joe Flacco ($106M) Cam Newton ($104M) None won the Super Bowl during that time.
7:19 AM · May 12, 2020

2019, Mahomes was on his rookie deal.
2020, Brady played for 30 million. High but under market value.

I don't feel teams with salary cap eating QBs is the winning formula. A dominant defense is.

Fwiw
Brady played for only 25 mil last year with an added 3 mil in bonuses (Super Bowl, playoff, etc)
Nice deal for the team!

 

[Creeper]

I thought the revenue for the new TV contracts will not be realized until 2024? Maybe I heard that wrong. But it was my understanding the reason why Dak wants a shorter term deal is so he can renegotiate with Dallas once this TV revenue hits the team CAP number. It is an attitude I understand but from a team perspective it is not one I prefer to see from the QB or team leader.

In any case, the Disney contract, which I heard the NFL claim is not a done deal, will only provide each team with about $9 million in additional CAP space, which sounds like a lot is not really. Most players contracts have built in CAP escalations because the belief is the CAP will go up about 8% to 10% every year.

Remember, the Cowboys have increasing CAP hits for other players they already signed. DLaw's CAP hit in 2020 was $9.9 million. That increases to $25 million in 2021. $27 million in 2022 and $29 million in 2023. Zeke, and Jaylon Smith will have higher CAP impacts in 2023 as well.

While it makes the most sense to use as much of the CAP as you are allowed on talent, assuming you get equivalent talent for Cap used as much as possible, It does not make sense to use it all on the players you have. You'd like some room to re-sign players or sign free agents to fill gaps in the roster.

Dak appears to want top money and a short term deal. He can't have both because it makes no sense. I have already posted what Mahomes is getting over the next 3 years, it is an average of about $34.1 million. Dak does not deserve Mahomes-like money. So for 3 years Dak does not deserve $35 million, let alone the $40 million he has reportedly asked for. If Dak insists on a 3 year deal then Jerry should pay him about $32 million at most.

Did anyone see the Jane Slater piece about what other team sources think of Dak? She claims to have reached out to AFC team officials and asked them about Dak and they told her he is a top 6 to 10 QB and does not deserve the money he is asking for. She also said they believe there is always one team that get enamored with a player and caves in but they think most teams will not pay Dak like a top 5 QB. I think Jerry and Stephen are being more than fair with Dak.

 

[khiladi]

The argument has taken in every possible scenario for the QB position on this board. But I heard something on the radio today which I think may have been missed. If you have suggested this, my apologies.

The cap in 2022 and past will go up and perhaps significantly. The Disney contract will have a pronounced affect on the cap. But the other affiliates who will jump on board will make a ridiculous contract for Dak much more palatable in the second year and beyond. So the antacid crowd that frets at the spending of a dime on Dak because of the world ending with his contract might take a chill pill on that account.

If it's just about the money, this scenario could cure that and then some.

Fitting his contract in the first year could be resolved with extensions and pushing the guarantee past 2021 to fit both his desires for payment and the teams position - which some claim the Cowboys will be mediocre and nothing can be done about it if Dak signs.

-----------------------------------

Second aspect was discussed on the radio. What if........

Dallas negotiated a contract with Dak and immediately traded him to the 9ers for the 12 over-all pick. Then package those to Houston for Watson. Or to Seattle for Wilson. You might have to sweeten the deal for Wilson. I am opposed to this because I do not think either guy is significantly better than what Dallas has.

Opinions?

Cap is actually going down next year with COVID and the US gov’t pumped trillions into the economy just to keep it afloat. Even the Lakers, the biggest revenue earner in the NBA by far, was caught trying to get money from the SMALL business bail out money.

There is no such thing as an infinite money supply. Salaries are already way over-inflated. The NFL is still the king revenue wise by far and the NBA is ridiculously over-inflated, but even NASCAR abd hockey had multiple teams needing bail out money.

 

[Sydla]

People assume this is all about money and cap space. Nothing could be further from the truth. Teams always find a way to handle the cap.

The debate in the FO is over whether or not Dak is a franchise QB.

Not sure this makes sense. If you were having a debate in the front office over whether Dak is a franchise QB or not, you wouldn't have made him a big offer last offseason.

It's about dollars and length. That's it. Dak wants big bucks early and a short contract so he can cash in again. Dallas wants a longer term deal so they can better manage the cap going forward. That's it.

I mean if the FO wasn't sure Dak is a franchise QB then it was really stupid offering him a 5 year deal at $35 million like was widely reported last year.

 

[Sandyf]

Not matter how much the economy booms I'm not paying a filet mignon price for a McDonald's hamburger.

Hate to tell you this, but we already do. Heck a Big Mac is already $5.00 for little more than a quarter of a pound meat and ribeye is running $11.00 a pound at the store.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

I'm curious why some people believe the cap will explode in the coming years. The Tampa-KC Super Bowl had the lowest TV ratings since 2007. And this was a highly touted game featuring Brady vs. Mahomes. Further, the Super Bowl audience has leveled off from its all-time high of 114.4 million viewers on NBC in 2015.

Before Covid the NFL was experiencing declining stadium attendance as well as television ratings. The NFL's core demographic group, older men, are dying off and not being replaced. Millennials don't play or watch football like their fathers did.

Recently the NFL wanted the networks to DOUBLE their broadcasting fees. One network agreed to a 20% increase.

The coming 2021 season is likely to be negatively affected by Covid. Now if the 2022 season doesn't have sold out stadiums and high TV ratings, the NFL is in serious trouble.

We will see if there is a lingering negative pushback by the fans on social justice issues and if people continue the trend of doing outside activities like camping, golf, tennis, hunting and fishing.

Which makes me wonder why some people believe the cap will explode in the future.

Exactly. The NFL is very worried about revenue long term. The NFL average viewer is in his 50s, not a prime advertising target.

I can stream any game I want for free live, including red zone. Why would I pay for NFL games on tv?

 

[csirl]

Not sure this makes sense. If you were having a debate in the front office over whether Dak is a franchise QB or not, you wouldn't have made him a big offer last offseason.

It's about dollars and length. That's it. Dak wants big bucks early and a short contract so he can cash in again. Dallas wants a longer term deal so they can better manage the cap going forward. That's it.

I mean if the FO wasn't sure Dak is a franchise QB then it was really stupid offering him a 5 year deal at $35 million like was widely reported last year.

Was he made an offer? Nobody really knows - we only have Daks publicists version. My impression is that once MM replaced Garrett, the team backed off with the offers.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

My opinion is if Dak wants 40-44 million. We're not sure what the exact number is because he said he wants to be higher than Watson and behind Mahomes. So hence 40-44. If he wants that I see no difference between paying Dak that or Wilson and Watson. To me it's the same problem. Very expensive QB that will have to overcome roster shortcomings. Wilson has played at an MVP level but his team hasn't been to the super bowl or won a super bowl since he signed for big money. Watson hasn't won much because his talent can not overcome suckage of the rest of the roster.

So my opinion is paying a QB 40-45 million is a recipe for mediocrity and early playoff bounces. Regardless of who the QB is.

I'd rather pay Alex Smith 10 million or Cam Newton 1 million and build a solid roster around them.

I think the formula of having a 40-45 million dollar QB and winning the super bowl is not going to work.

Did you actually watch Wilson the last 8 games of the season?

 

[plymkr]

Did you actually watch Wilson the last 8 games of the season?

Not as much as I watched the Cowboys. Did he win the Super Bowl?

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Not as much as I watched the Cowboys. Did he win the Super Bowl?

Not with out a Uber talented defense.

 

[plymkr]

it is jones family mgmt!
and your right, jerry extends and overpays the guys who he sees as stars , that he drafted.
For Jaylon that was done to show he didnt screw up drafting him in the first place.

Heck were still dealing with gregory, another bargain player jerry drafted, so wait till he gets extended for 25 mil a year!

Ewok, is hard to understand, maybe because he was a 4th round pick, the only pick that high cowboys have had in many moons lol,
and jerry is still trying to justify that pick.

Cooper , gave up a # 1 for him so they had to pay him whatever to keep him, otherwise that #1 was thrown away , so I sort of get that.

Lawrence has done more to earn his money than the others, yes overpaid, but not as bad as the others.
Crawford they decided in 2014 to pay crawford 8 mil a year, and low balled murray ! they could have let crawford go, and kept murray with the
8 mil, and then that would have changed the 2015 season to something better.

Jerry and his Boy lol aka the jones boys, they do some strange stuff,make a lot of mistakes, but cant be fired!

We as fans are cursed that jones bought the team, because it wont end in many of our lifetimes.
The cowboys havent been contenders in a long time, and they wont be for a long time to come.

If your 30 or under then you might live to see cowboys in a SB again.
if your 30-50 you have a shot at it, but 50 and over, might as well forget about it.

Yeah it's like who he sees as stars might not be seen as stars by other teams. Ala Jaylon, Crawford. I'm not bagging on DLaw, he's good but he's not elite. He can't take a game over from his position the same way Aaron Donald can, but he makes the same money. Don't get me started on Ewok. He's needs to go back to Endor and fight some storm troopers and that'll get him in shape. Cooper's contract doesn't bother me as much, but I still don't like it, because I think he does a lot of things for the offense that goes unseen.

And I get the argument that DLaw does a lot of things for the defense that doesn't show up on the stat sheet as well but Cooper is relatively quiet. I think my opinion of DLaw would be different if he spent less time promoting the Hot Boyz nickname and brand and more time being quiet and doing his job.

But I totally agree with your point, Cooper was signed cu we traded a #1 for him so we had to sign him or risk "looking incompetent". Well guess what Jerry, you are incompetent, you look incompetent all the time since '95, cutting bait with a receiver that doesn't deserve to be paid at the top of his position makes you look like a shrewd business man that demands production. Other teams cut their 1st rounder if they are not producing at the level they want.

Jerry's an insane, narcissistic, creepy old man that loves his "daddies". And like you said, were cursed with him unless God intervenes or he has some kind of backwards stroke that turns him into a football genius. I'm not counting on either to happen so I play a lot of Starcraft 2 coop as my newest hobby and trying nott o care as much about the cowboys. No matter what, narcissist and narcissist in training are going to screw up any talent we come across in some way or another.

In the last 15 years how are we going to go roughly .500 every year and be a bubble team when you got the talents of Romo, Prescott, Martin, Witten, Owens, Cooper, Zeke (i guess), Ware, Ratliff, Fredbeard and bascially the new great wall for a couple years, Murray, etc.

We've had the talent but the misuse of talent, bumbling of contract negotiations and dysfunctional organization has completely pissed away any talented players we have. So frustrating to watch and it doesn't look like there's hope anytime soon.

But on the positive side I'm up to level 561 on Starcraft 2 coop. Lol, that's good.

 

[plymkr]

Not with out a Uber talented defense.

Exactly, he needs a strong defense or his efforts and talents are wasted. If he came here there would be no change. I would be just as frustrated if we let Prescott walk and got Wilson, it would be the same team but instead of #4 trying to be superman it would be #3 and we'd be 7-9 to 9-7 and a bubble team for the playoffs. Same thing different day. I completely agree with what you're saying.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Exactly, he needs a strong defense or his efforts and talents are wasted. If he came here there would be no change. I would be just as frustrated if we let Prescott walk and got Wilson, it would be the same team but instead of #4 trying to be superman it would be #3 and we'd be 7-9 to 9-7 and a bubble team for the playoffs. Same thing different day. I completely agree with what you're saying.

Exactly! Totally agree

 

[DandyDon52]

Yeah it's like who he sees as stars might not be seen as stars by other teams. Ala Jaylon, Crawford. I'm not bagging on DLaw, he's good but he's not elite. He can't take a game over from his position the same way Aaron Donald can, but he makes the same money. Don't get me started on Ewok. He's needs to go back to Endor and fight some storm troopers and that'll get him in shape. Cooper's contract doesn't bother me as much, but I still don't like it, because I think he does a lot of things for the offense that goes unseen.

And I get the argument that DLaw does a lot of things for the defense that doesn't show up on the stat sheet as well but Cooper is relatively quiet. I think my opinion of DLaw would be different if he spent less time promoting the Hot Boyz nickname and brand and more time being quiet and doing his job.

But I totally agree with your point, Cooper was signed cu we traded a #1 for him so we had to sign him or risk "looking incompetent". Well guess what Jerry, you are incompetent, you look incompetent all the time since '95, cutting bait with a receiver that doesn't deserve to be paid at the top of his position makes you look like a shrewd business man that demands production. Other teams cut their 1st rounder if they are not producing at the level they want.

Jerry's an insane, narcissistic, creepy old man that loves his "daddies". And like you said, were cursed with him unless God intervenes or he has some kind of backwards stroke that turns him into a football genius. I'm not counting on either to happen so I play a lot of Starcraft 2 coop as my newest hobby and trying nott o care as much about the cowboys. No matter what, narcissist and narcissist in training are going to screw up any talent we come across in some way or another.

In the last 15 years how are we going to go roughly .500 every year and be a bubble team when you got the talents of Romo, Prescott, Martin, Witten, Owens, Cooper, Zeke (i guess), Ware, Ratliff, Fredbeard and bascially the new great wall for a couple years, Murray, etc.

We've had the talent but the misuse of talent, bumbling of contract negotiations and dysfunctional organization has completely pissed away any talented players we have. So frustrating to watch and it doesn't look like there's hope anytime soon.

But on the positive side I'm up to level 561 on Starcraft 2 coop. Lol, that's good.

on Ewok. He's needs to go back to Endor and fight some storm troopers and that'll get him in shape......that was funny!
I'm up to level 561 on Starcraft 2 coop congrats, that is alot of levels.
One thing u left out was jerrys build a HC project JG ! that screwed romo and teams from 2007-18 !
Then he hire MM cause he heard bells lol and MM was awful this past season. He hurt the team more than he helped.
I would say 2-3 games lost just due to him.
The one thing jerry needs most is a good HC maybe a young unproven one, but jerry likes big names and he got one that won a SB many moons ago.
And MM knocked cowboys out of playoffs twice so jerry thought he was good.
If jerry could make himself hire a good HC, the cowboys might overcome the rest of the stuff, but without a good HC, it is near impossible.