A question about the players over system philosophy

[CWR]

Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

What's your theory? (Cowboys!)

Just because a coach doesn't believe in boxing players in to his technique/system doesn't mean he lacks preferences.

I think the point is to work to their strengths, not be so rigid you are miscasting talent.

 

[Big_D]

You still draft players you like and when it comes down to the choice of a few on the board or even existing players on the roster, you go talent over scheme and then tailor things to that talent instead of some ridiculous search for the perfect fit. Something this team always tried to do and it never worked.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Which corners who lack those traits did you want?

 

[817Gill]

I don't think this is a serious question.

I think we all know that when McClay and Stephen Jones referenced the McCarthy's comments about players over scheme that they were referencing Marinelli and the DLine.
- Marinelli wanted quick twitch over size at DT (He loved Hill because he was quicker than other DTs. Marinelli didn't really care about anything else for a DT draft prospect).
- Marinelli wanted length at DE (Taco over Watt).
- Marinelli wanted a quick 1tech even if he was undersized.

CBs
- McClay's comment was likely a reference to the skills they think CBs need in the modern big WR era.
- They obviously put a strong emphasis on the ability to play the ball in the air (i.e. Ball Skills).
- Those traits are not really scheme specific.

This! The philosophy has nuance, it’s not just to be taken at face value. This philosophical change is in relation to the restrictions they had with the previous staff and the realities of the modern NFL.

 

[817Gill]

Which corners who lack those traits did you want?

Exactly lol big corners that can play the ball are literally the prototype for #1 CB’s. Who wants a small corner who can’t play the ball?

Also both things can be true, McClay can like a guy as his pet cat because he’s talented and perfect for the scheme. We are acting like he passed up on other more talented corners to draft Robinson for fit, when in fact the pick has been lauded my many and Kiper had him as a late riser who showed a lot of potential. Dude has talent and fits the scheme, seems like plenty reason to be McClay’s pet cat.

 

[eromeopolk]

Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

What's your theory? (Cowboys!)

Cowboys never had smallish CBs going back to Renfro and Green, Kyle and Barnes, Walls and Thurman, Brown, Holt, and Smith. Deion was 6-1-195. Parcells drafted TNew who was under 6-0 but was close to 200 pounds.

Therefore this is not a exception but the norm. McClay being a former DB knows that you CB should be able to cover, hold up against the run, and be flexible to move from CB to S like Cornell Green, Renfro, Barnes, Thurman, and Walls who all made conversions from CB to S.

So it is not anything to do with scheme but getting football players that can play football.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

What I saw in the draft was Dallas taking the best player available at a position of need. With the possible exception being CeeDee Lamb.

Every coach has a style of football he wants to play in his mind. And every coach has a scheme. But if there is a guy that is just a phenomenal player, head and shoulders above the rest, you choose that player. A player head and shoulders above the rest is mainly going to be found in the first two rounds.

This offseason we've seen the style of football MM wants to play. He went after big body guys on defense, so apparently he wants to have a big and physical defense. On offense he just wants play makers.

So I look at his players over scheme comment as an early round philosophy in the draft only. But that's only in the draft. If he really meant players over scheme 100% of the time, we would have made a bigger splash in free agency.

But it is a good way to make sure you don't draft any "bust" in the early rounds of the draft. So I like it.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

What's your theory? (Cowboys!)

Philly added some very fast WR....hope our tall lengthy CB can keep up????

 

[Diehardblues]

Oh, no. Captain Copy&Paste doesn't think I'm serious.

When McCarthy talked about talent over scheme at his introductory press conference he wasn't referring only to the DL. When he told the great Will McClay "players over scheme" he wasn't talking about DL only. This was a general overall philosophy for the team. Go back and listen to Fat Mike at his presser and then tell me he's only taking about the DL. He's not.

But yet all our corner additions are the same. These aren't can play any scheme players nonsense. They are physical long press cornerbacks.

It's just confusing when you hear how you need to just focus on talent when acquiring players and then hear McClay say Robinson was his pet cat because he fits so well.

Everyone should fit in a player over scheme system. That's the point of it.

Yep

The NFL is a talent driven league . Not scheme. If you only look for players to fit your scheme you’ll end up with less talent.

That said, sometimes it works out they fit your scheme . But more so I’d say great talent can adjust to schemes.

 

[nightrain]

sometimes the talent does fit the scheme.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

What's your theory? (Cowboys!)

Making the most of what you've got is not mutually independent of having preferences for what you get next. And really, "just get the best players" is just unserious. You have to fill out positions.

Just as you fill position holes, you can fill holes of *types* of players at positions. Perhaps they decided that they didn't have *enough* of certain types of players to allow them to play *all* the schemes* they wanted.

 

[Proof]

Exactly. Size and length aren’t really scheme specific player traits either.

Basically. And it’s almost as if sometimes players that fit also are the best. That’s a happy marriage.

players over scheme doesn’t mean no scheme, no traits, but talent trumps all

 

[Paradox]

According to the analysts I was listening to, their size has to do with intimidating the opponent, not scheme.

 

[Teague31]

As receivers get bigger you need bigger corners regardless of scheme.

 

[fivetwos]

Not sure why his comment couldnt mean to not pass on a good player because he DOESN'T seem to fit.

Given a choice between a better player that may not fit the scheme or a lesser rated one who does he would prefer the former.

They also probably slanted their board toward scheme, especially at the CB position.

That's how I choose to interpret it anyway!

 

[Chuck 54]

Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

What's your theory? (Cowboys!)

If you want to run a variable defense, you need guys who can press at the line of scrimmage to buy time. You can’t sit back in a zone because then any confusion created for the offense means nothing. You can always find a guy open quickly vs a zone defense. You want press corners who can buy time....if they can blanket man to man, even better. Long arms can make it easier to bat balls. I think we want CBs who play the ball and are aggressive. A 6’ tall physical CB who can press a WR and delay him getting into his route or read the coverage works in any scheme.

 

[Aven8]

I think it means what McClay and the scouts like and they will make it work. Talent. Instead of Marinelli coming in saying thing this guy won’t fit etc. JG coming in spouting RKG etc mumbo jumbo.

 

[joshjwp]

Very good point. IMO Lewis is the best corner on the team and he always seems to be an afterthought. I've felt he was going to go somewhere else and thrive and make the Boys look stupid once he's a free agent. I was hoping the new coaching staffs emphasis on turnovers would get him more PT, but now after the draft and there obvious obsession with size I'm worried it will be more of the same. Lewis being looked over because he's kinda short is my only thing I'm worried about with the new regime.

 

[ThreeandOut]

Good topic after all the endless Dak threads...a couple of points.

First, even though they are saying talent over system, there's still a system. So the general rule is they will take players that fit the scheme where possible.

Second, when they do take talent over scheme, the difference in talent will need to be significant.

I do think the talent over system talk is somewhat overblown. What we will eventually find is that McCarthy does have some definite preferences at certain positions like CB and WR (go look at the Green Bay roster). However, he is open to taking a broader range of players, particularly in the defensive front seven, than the old regime.

 

[John813]

Every coach has a scheme/traits they look for. Some are more flexible than others and can adjust per what is given to him by the GM or how FA/the draft produces.

Maybe they got lucky and found talent that also will work with what Nolan/Harris prefers to run. Or maybe it was a fluff comment done in the dead of the offseason by MM