A Recipe for Disaster

[Jipper]

people dont want to hear logic they just want to sign a name....

 

[Dalmations202]

Byron? They'd laugh at you.
Irving? We don't own his rights.
Dez? Maybe
Beas? Maybe
Hanna? More laughing.

They'd want value, not some scrub/JAG.

Byron -- was a first rounder and has some value, not sure how much but has some value.
Irving -- they could work a deal with then us sign and trade him- eliminating the 2nd rounder they would have to pay.
Dez - Beas : who knows.
Hanna and say a 3rd instead of just a 2nd might be a compromise, if they like Hanna.

My point is not what value you or I see in them but what Seattle personnel see in them.

 

[kskboys]

Byron -- was a first rounder and has some value, not sure how much but has some value.
Irving -- they could work a deal with then us sign and trade him- eliminating the 2nd rounder they would have to pay.
Dez - Beas : who knows.
Hanna and say a 3rd instead of just a 2nd might be a compromise, if they like Hanna.

My point is not what value you or I see in them but what Seattle personnel see in them.

Byron: Very little. Byron is a combine baby and an athlete. He appears to not be a football player. At present he is a backup/ST's type.

No one outside of Cowboys nation likes Hanna.

And then we have the salary problem, not to mention Earl's injury history starting to accumulate. And then add in that Earl might be done soon. DB's after 30 are a crappshoot.

 

[ghst187]

I'm all for Thomas, at the right price. I heard on 105.3 the Seahawks are asking for a 1st round pick in exchange for what may turn out being a 1 year rental. No thanks on that, though, admittedly I admit it would be tempting. I might go as high as a 2nd, but I wouldn't feel great about that...especially if we are unable to retain him beyond a year.

Totally agree with both your OP and this. I say toss in Scandrick and a third round pick and call it good. The market for trading draft picks for players this year is pretty low. I guess Seattle still has fond memories of fleecing us for 2 firsts for Galloway and then watching give up a first for Roy Williams. Hope those days are over. I've been pretty loud about going to get Earl Thomas for a long while but giving up anything more than a third seems a high price. Don't blame them for asking a high price cuz you never know unless you ask but I suspect they will calm down and want to get SOMETHING for him rather than nothing

 

[jday]

My apologies. Very cryptic on my part.
I am afraid you are correct on Suh. I would say 50/50 chance he is done with the next signing. But oh if not, he was/is a monster.

I was referring to the Thomas statement on giving a 1st and countering with a 3rd. I think Dallas would be better with a player for player trade with lower level picks thrown in to make up for the talent gap.

Depending on the player we are sending over, I might actually like that better. Did you have a player in mind...Scandrick would be a good one, I think. He's not happy here. Thomas is not happy there. I'd throw in one of those comp 4th's, if I could get away with it, but a 3rd might be my top offer with Scandrick. Byron Jones might be a consideration, considering with Thomas, he would be a luxury.

 

[kskboys]

Totally agree with both your OP and this. I say toss in Scandrick and a third round pick and call it good. The market for trading draft picks for players this year is pretty low. I guess Seattle still has fond memories of fleecing us for 2 firsts for Galloway and then watching give up a first for Roy Williams. Hope those days are over. I've been pretty loud about going to get Earl Thomas for a long while but giving up anything more than a third seems a high price. Don't blame them for asking a high price cuz you never know unless you ask but I suspect they will calm down and want to get SOMETHING for him rather than nothing

3rd is high to take on that salary.

No one wants Scandy. Old and injury prone. Zero trade value.

 

[kskboys]

Depending on the player we are sending over, I might actually like that better. Did you have a player in mind...Scandrick would be a good one, I think. He's not happy here. Thomas is not happy there. I'd throw in one of those comp 4th's, if I could get away with it, but a 3rd might be my top offer with Scandrick. Byron Jones might be a consideration, considering with Thomas, he would be a luxury.

Scandrick: Zero trade value
Jones: Little trade value

If you guys want to get serious about trading a player, you're going to need to get serious, not offering players you don't see any value in.

 

[Dalmations202]

Depending on the player we are sending over, I might actually like that better. Did you have a player in mind...Scandrick would be a good one, I think. He's not happy here. Thomas is not happy there. I'd throw in one of those comp 4th's, if I could get away with it, but a 3rd might be my top offer with Scandrick. Byron Jones might be a consideration, considering with Thomas, he would be a luxury.

You've got it. Scandrick, maybe BJones. Heck even Dez or Irving --- depending on what Dallas and Seattle can work out. I haven't been talking with Seattle lately (ever - lol) so I have no idea. I just know that moving some salary etc and not giving up such a high draft pick would be preferable to me.

 

[jday]

I have to take the pick. Because of the extreme uncertainty of what Thomas has left. Many/most DB's decline sharply around the age of 30, and Earl is already starting to miss time from injury. Hard hitting S's who weigh a buck 80 don't have long careers.

Now, if we had a super bowl ready team, I might be tempted.

I marginally agree with most of what you said. If I had my druthers, I'd rather the Cowboys build exclusively through the draft. I'm not a fan of overpaying for aging players. That said, Thomas doesn't have the same negotiation power as a Free Agent because we are the only one he will be talking to in this hypothetical trade...so there's a chance the Cowboys could get a team-friendly deal done...not a big chance, but a chance nonetheless.

Where you lost me is "Super Bowl Ready." What is that? And why do you think the Cowboys aren't there yet? Last year was an abortion, but 9 & 7 is not exactly light years away. A good Free Agency and Draft could cure all and then some of what ails the present-day Cowboys. I'm not saying the Cowboys are going to the Super Bowl in 2018...I'm just saying I don't think there as far away as you apparently think. Obviously, even with a great overall offseason, the Cowboys still have to coach there way there, and I'm not betting on that. But I do think as compared to 31 other teams, the Cowboys have really good talent. They just need to fill a few gaps and hope the Dak of 2016 makes a season-long appearance.

 

[jday]

I'm in no way disappointed in our offseason. Yet. However, if we don't add a mid tier FA or two, then I will be.

We do not have the cap room, and we are not one player away, so I agree w/ our stance so far. Teams are running out of room now, though, and soon we should be making a play. No more Carroll's and Bell's though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the Carroll and Bell signings of the Cowboys world are overreactions in the wrong direction. What I mean is, with the Roy Williams acquisition and the Brandon Carr signings, the Cowboys were at a time clearly being over-zealous in their talent acquisition, so they did a u-turn and went too far in the wrong direction. Now they are only make bargain-basement deals and hoping on hope that they work out. I get it and personally would rather them do that, than overpay.

That said, you are right. I would like to see them make some medium size deals for the right players. Right now, I think the players I'd have in my crosshairs to set up the Cowboys draft is: Dontari Poe DT, Zach Brown LB, and Greg Robinson LT converted to Guard. I'd also try to keep Cooper if for no other reason he was at the very least serviceable, provided he is still willing to accept a cap-friendly deal. Given that scenario, rather than spend a pick on Thomas, I'd use that aforementioned additional draft capital to move up and get one of the top-tier Safeties, either Minkah or Derwin.

 

[kskboys]

I marginally agree with most of what you said. If I had my druthers, I'd rather the Cowboys build exclusively through the draft. I'm not a fan of overpaying for aging players. That said, Thomas doesn't have the same negotiation power as a Free Agent because we are the only one he will be talking to in this hypothetical trade...so there's a chance the Cowboys could get a team-friendly deal done...not a big chance, but a chance nonetheless.

Where you lost me is "Super Bowl Ready." What is that? And why do you think the Cowboys aren't there yet? Last year was an abortion, but 9 & 7 is not exactly light years away. A good Free Agency and Draft could cure all and then some of what ails the present-day Cowboys. I'm not saying the Cowboys are going to the Super Bowl in 2018...I'm just saying I don't think there as far away as you apparently think. Obviously, even with a great overall offseason, the Cowboys still have to coach there way there, and I'm not betting on that. But I do think as compared to 31 other teams, the Cowboys have really good talent. They just need to fill a few gaps and hope the Dak of 2016 makes a season-long appearance.

Defense.

We went 13-3 due solely to the strength of a running game. Until we get a D who can stop a team on 3rd downs and in the 4th qtr we won't be super bowl ready. We do need a FS and would benefit greatly from Earl, no doubt. However, we also need a MLB, NT and possibly a DE. We're getting closer, yes, but may not be quite to the point yet where one player can take us over the top.

We're prolly a little further than you're thinking, but closer than what I'm thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jday]

Byron? They'd laugh at you.
Irving? We don't own his rights.
Dez? Maybe
Beas? Maybe
Hanna? More laughing.

They'd want value, not some scrub/JAG.

I think you are forgetting that the Seahawks defense has been decimated by cap-casualties and getting old. I think they might be very interested in adding Scandrick or Byron, but obviously not straight up. The Cowboys would have to throw in a pick most likely, but, that said, given Thomas at this point is just a 1 year rental, the Seahawks are crazy if they think they'd get a first rounder. This is most likely just a sales tactic and this is where they are starting the negotiations.

 

[kskboys]

I think the Carroll and Bell signings of the Cowboys world are overreactions in the wrong direction. What I mean is, with the Roy Williams acquisition and the Brandon Carr signings, the Cowboys were at a time clearly being over-zealous in their talent acquisition, so they did a u-turn and went too far in the wrong direction. Now they are only make bargain-basement deals and hoping on hope that they work out. I get it and personally would rather them do that, than overpay.

That said, you are right. I would like to see them make some medium size deals for the right players. Right now, I think the players I'd have in my crosshairs to set up the Cowboys draft is: Dontari Poe DT, Zach Brown LB, and Greg Robinson LT converted to Guard. I'd also try to keep Cooper if for no other reason he was at the very least serviceable, provided he is still willing to accept a cap-friendly deal. Given that scenario, rather than spend a pick on Thomas, I'd use that aforementioned additional draft capital to move up and get one of the top-tier Safeties, either Minkah or Derwin.

Tyron Mathieu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kskboys]

I think you are forgetting that the Seahawks defense has been decimated by cap-casualties and getting old. I think they might be very interested in adding Scandrick or Byron, but obviously not straight up. The Cowboys would have to throw in a pick most likely, but, that said, given Thomas at this point is just a 1 year rental, the Seahawks are crazy if they think they'd get a first rounder. This is most likely just a sales tactic and this is where they are starting the negotiations.

Scandy is done. I was a Scandy fan, but he's done.

IMO, SEA will have to take less than most people think. Getting rid of Earl is a salary dump, plain and simple. I think they're going to end up taking a 4th or later due to his salary.

Byron is a subpar player at this point. Could still be developed, don't know.

 

[jday]

Scandrick: Zero trade value
Jones: Little trade value

If you guys want to get serious about trading a player, you're going to need to get serious, not offering players you don't see any value in.

That's your grade, not mine. I think both Scandrick and Jones have value...especially for a team whose secondary has been decimated and presently does not have a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the draft. It's not what our players means to us, its what our players would mean to them and right now both Scandrick and Jones would be improvements in their secondary...especially over what they will find in the draft in the fourth or later.

 

[jday]

Scandy is done. I was a Scandy fan, but he's done.

IMO, SEA will have to take less than most people think. Getting rid of Earl is a salary dump, plain and simple. I think they're going to end up taking a 4th or later due to his salary.

Byron is a subpar player at this point. Could still be developed, don't know.

Your evaluation of Byron, for the lack of a better term, is lazy. He's not a run and hit safety...that's the knock on him. The problem is you forget what life without Byron was like before the Cowboys drafted him. The Cowboys would get routinely lit up by the oppositions TE and since Byron was added, that just simply has not been the case. In other words, given the right role, Byron can be great. Just don't expect him to add much in run-support, because that clearly is not his strong suit.

 

[Sandyf]

If you have been following professional football for as long as I have, you most likely have learned to recognize a disaster in the making via Free Agency when you see one. For me, the ingredients are fairly simple to identify:


You start with an over 30 otherwise great player.

Throw in some comments from said player about caring more about the “money bag” then actually joining a winning organization.

Give him what he wants on a 3 year or more contract.

And viola, you have the makings of a cap, lockerroom and teamwide disaster.


For me, that’s exactly what Suh represents and as such, I want no part of him. Sure, he might work out in the beginning (though, it wouldn’t surprise me if he fell off from the get go), but ultimately and eventually, that’s a contract I suspect the Cowboys would absolutely regret.


How do I know?


I’ve seen it way too many times before. There was a time Jerry was notorious for paying players for what they had done instead of paying players for what they were going to do. Granted, there will be outliers to this phenomenon…guys that did pan out for their team; but make no mistake, those instances are the exception, not the rule.


So while I recognize Suh has been a beast in this league, I also recognize that for many he has also been a head-case with a poor attitude. Those days very well may be behind him, but eventually his overall athleticism will follow. When that will happen is anybody’s guess, but for big guys like him who have taken a whole lot of pounding over their careers, I’d bet that will happen sooner than later…and most definitely before he reaches year 3 of the potential contract he is likely to get.


It’s a suckers bet and speaking for myself, I truly do hope the Cowboys pass on him.


The other thing I suspect many fans are not taking in consideration is that the way Suh’s (most likely) 3 year or more contract would be structured, is the first year would be cap friendly, with each year accelerating in price. With Dak being due for a contract in 2 years, making this deal could make keeping Dak extremely difficult. Granted, Dak would have to return to his 2016 form for that to be an issue, but I certainly wouldn’t bet against him…especially to rent the declining services of one Ndamukong Suh.


Thoughts?

Good thoughts and on the money. To many fans get enamored about signing these overpriced free agents just because they believe it will help the team and it rarely does. Choosing the right free agents for the right price and drafting well gets up a winning record every year and a shot at the Super Bowl. For much to long Dallas has tried to circumvent it and paid with terrible teams. Over the last five we have been more consistent in drafting and resigning our good one. The one mistake to me was never drafting a QB each year but seems like we have finally found a good one. They need to keep doing the right things and we will be back on top.

 

[jday]

people dont want to hear logic they just want to sign a name....

Tru dat.

 

[jday]

You've got it. Scandrick, maybe BJones. Heck even Dez or Irving --- depending on what Dallas and Seattle can work out. I haven't been talking with Seattle lately (ever - lol) so I have no idea. I just know that moving some salary etc and not giving up such a high draft pick would be preferable to me.

I'd keep Dez, though. I don't want to create a new need in this deal if I don't have to.

 

[Rockport]

If you have been following professional football for as long as I have, you most likely have learned to recognize a disaster in the making via Free Agency when you see one. For me, the ingredients are fairly simple to identify:


You start with an over 30 otherwise great player.

Throw in some comments from said player about caring more about the “money bag” then actually joining a winning organization.

Give him what he wants on a 3 year or more contract.

And viola, you have the makings of a cap, lockerroom and teamwide disaster.


For me, that’s exactly what Suh represents and as such, I want no part of him. Sure, he might work out in the beginning (though, it wouldn’t surprise me if he fell off from the get go), but ultimately and eventually, that’s a contract I suspect the Cowboys would absolutely regret.


How do I know?


I’ve seen it way too many times before. There was a time Jerry was notorious for paying players for what they had done instead of paying players for what they were going to do. Granted, there will be outliers to this phenomenon…guys that did pan out for their team; but make no mistake, those instances are the exception, not the rule.


So while I recognize Suh has been a beast in this league, I also recognize that for many he has also been a head-case with a poor attitude. Those days very well may be behind him, but eventually his overall athleticism will follow. When that will happen is anybody’s guess, but for big guys like him who have taken a whole lot of pounding over their careers, I’d bet that will happen sooner than later…and most definitely before he reaches year 3 of the potential contract he is likely to get.


It’s a suckers bet and speaking for myself, I truly do hope the Cowboys pass on him.


The other thing I suspect many fans are not taking in consideration is that the way Suh’s (most likely) 3 year or more contract would be structured, is the first year would be cap friendly, with each year accelerating in price. With Dak being due for a contract in 2 years, making this deal could make keeping Dak extremely difficult. Granted, Dak would have to return to his 2016 form for that to be an issue, but I certainly wouldn’t bet against him…especially to rent the declining services of one Ndamukong Suh.


Thoughts?

The habitual whiners want to sign someone, anyone. Until they do then they will call the Cowboys the stupidest team in the NFL.