ABC: British Courtesy Cost Lives on the Titanic

ZeroClub

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British Courtesy Cost Lives on the Titanic

Did Good Manners Cost the British Their Lives Onboard the Titanic?

By SEAN DUFFY
LONDON, Jan. 21, 2009
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New research has suggested that a lot of the poor souls who drowned in the infamous 1912 Titanic sinking died because of good manners, while many Americans survived because they were pushy.

A study conducted by Swiss and Australian researchers showed that Britons were more likely to have died than any other nationality in the tragedy because they patiently stood in long queues while waiting to board lifeboats. They were too polite to rush and board the limited lifeboats.

Prof. Bruno Frey, who conducted the study from the University of Zurich, said there were several factors in the findings, but a big one was that Britons' civilized behavior was their downfall.

"They [Brits] followed the moral norm that women and children are to be saved first," Frey told ABC News. "They did so despite the fact that they were in a situation of life or death."

"They [Brits] would have been more likely to stand in a queue and wait their turn for boarding the lifeboats than Americans," he said. The study also made reference to the famed British "stiff upper lip."

Frey's conclusions are backed up to a degree with eyewitness accounts from that night. The captain, Edward John Smith, reportedly shouted out: "Be British, boys, be British!" as the Titanic went down, according to witnesses.

One wealthy passenger, Benjamin Guggenheim, accepting he was doomed and, acknowledging his tuxedo, was heard to remark "We've dressed up in our best and are prepared to go down like gentlemen."

Also, the orchestra that carried on playing as the ship sank was a band that consisted of a majority of British citizens. The latter two incidents were recreated in scenes in the smash hit Hollywood film "Titanic."

Frey went on to tell ABC News that he came to the conclusions after studying the people who were saved, including looking at their ages, genders, whether they traveled first, second or third class, their nationalities, and whether they traveled alone or with friends or family.

"The goal of our research is to find out how people behave under extreme duress, especially in situations of life or death," Frey said. "Do they become more selfish, or do they still follow moral norms. In the case of the Titanic it was the latter."

Frey added that Americans at the time were "less aware of social norms" and would have pushed and rushed to survive. Whereas the Brits were very aware and felt they had a duty to live up to their gentlemanly conduct, so would not have forced their way onto the lifeboats. Fey also believes some Brits may have even given up their seats to Americans.

The study showed that while the British made up 53 percent of those on board, significantly fewer of them were among the 706 survivors. About 25 percent of U.S. passengers were saved, despite being a fifth of the total on board.

About three times as many rich people sailing first class survived compared with poor people traveling in third class. Americans had a 15 percent higher survival rate than the British, Irish and the Swedes. Women had a 51.7 percent better chance of survival than men, while women accompanied by children were 74 percent better off.

The Titanic sank the night of April 14, 1912, about 400 miles off the coast of Newfoundland, with the loss of 1,517 people.
 

DallasCowpoke

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ZeroClub;2596246 said:
Also, the orchestra that carried on playing as the ship sank was a band that consisted of a majority of British citizens.


Yea, and the ship being owned by the British White Star Line, probably had nothing to do with that either?


:rolleyes:
 

TheKey

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No lives were cost, the lifeboats were only going to hold X number of people anyway. Letting women and children go first is something I think most of us would still do.
 

Hoofbite

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They used to call this "survival of the fittest"

Who knew that all those weak animals that died off to promote the strong in their species were only being considerate and letting the others eat first.
 

Route 66

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OH RLY????

American researchers are firing back at a Swiss university researcher's report that “politeness” led to the deaths of 225 British passengers aboard the Titanic.

Professor Bruno Frey of the University of Zurich claims that the British passengers on the doomed cruise liner perished in the 1912 disaster because they were polite and willing to stand in line while American passengers pushed their way to the front and were placed in lifeboats.

While “women and children first” was followed as the "unsinkable" cruise ship hit an iceberg and fell to the floor of the Atlantic, Frey claims that many Britons lost their lives because they were courteous, while "uncultured" Americans were more likely to push ahead in line.

"The British were much more aware of the social norms at the time," Frey told the U.K.’s Daily Mail newspaper. "They would have been more likely to stand in a queue and wait their turn for boarding the lifeboats than Americans."

But American researchers say Frey’s claim is an example of Brits putting themselves on a pedestal.

"It sounds like post-modern revisionist history," said Karen Kamuda of the Massachusetts-based Titanic Historical Society. "To say that Americans act a certain way and the British act a certain way is racist."

Ithaca College social sciences librarian John R. Henderson, who compiled a comprehensive report on the Titanic, suggests that the percentage of casualties on the ship was based more on social status than race. The ship had been divided into three classes based on wealth.

The third class, which was most affordable, had the greatest concentration of immigrants. Only 25 percent of the passengers in the third class made it out alive, according to Henderson’s research. This was possibly due to the fact that there was no public address system in place on the Titanic. The third class also had less access to lifeboats.

"The first class lifeboats were gone by the time the third class was even told [that the ship was going down]," Henderson said.

The Titanic was making its maiden voyage from Southampton, England, to New York Harbor with 2,014 people aboard in April 1912 when it hit an iceberg in the northern Atlantic. The death toll from the disaster, one of the worst in maritime history, was 1,509 people. Seventy-two percent of its women passengers and 50 percent of the children on board reportedly survived.
 

burmafrd

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Trying to claim that the 3rd Class steerage passengers did not get the dirty end of the stick is typical of that type of so called researcher. He knew what he wanted to say before he ever wrote the paper and just worked all the "facts" that way.
 

burmafrd

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Its a fact that a smaller percentage of steerage class survived that any other. Most of them were either Irish or otherwise NOT English. And one thing you can say about the Irish: they are not renowned for being "polite".
 

CowboyPrincess

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Funny how the OP article didn't mention things like.. an iceberg, full speed ahead, rudders that were too small, blocked or locked passages from the lower levels, lifeboats that were removed before setting sail to make more room on the decks for the rich to walk.. those were the causes of 1522 deaths

Or how about the fact that the White Star Lines President J. Bruce Ismay jumped into a lifeboat and took the place of a woman or child. He didn't show his british upper lip now did he?

The second article proved one thing for sure.. It was icebergs fault :laugh1:
 

Macnalty

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CowboyPrincess;2598739 said:
Funny how the OP article didn't mention things like.. an iceberg, full speed ahead, rudders that were too small, blocked or locked passages from the lower levels, lifeboats that were removed before setting sail to make more room on the decks for the rich to walk.. those were the causes of 1522 deaths

Or how about the fact that the White Star Lines President J. Bruce Ismay jumped into a lifeboat and took the place of a woman or child. He didn't show his british upper lip now did he?

The second article proved one thing for sure.. It was icebergs fault :laugh1:

[SIZE=+2]EACH MAN STOOD AT HIS POST
WHILE ALL THE WEAKER ONES
WENT BY, AND SHOWED ONCE
MORE TO ALL THE WORLD
HOW ENGLISHMEN SHOULD DIE.
[/SIZE]
 

ROMOSAPIEN9

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So it's supposed to be a source of pride for the British that more of thier own died being "civilized?" You want to drown with your chin up that's your business.....but I'm getiing me and mines in a life boat whether I have to do some pushing and shoving or not. (or worse) Survival of the fittest.
 

5Stars

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ROMOSAPIEN9;2600101 said:
So it's supposed to be a source of pride for the British that more of thier own died being "civilized?" You want to drown with your chin up that's your business.....but I'm getiing me and mines in a life boat whether I have to do some pushing and shoving or not. (or worse) Survival of the fittest.
:laugh2:

"I say, would you like a spot of tea? Maybe a lifeboat?"
 
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