Abdul Carter/Jalon Walker modern chess piece defenders?

[Cowboyny]

We hear the team "position less" more in basketball, a player who can play anywhere. It is becoming more common in today NFL, players who can play all over the field to dictate matchups. We already have two type of these players in Parsons & Overshown. I believe both Adbul Carter and Jalon Walker are in that same category:

-Carter was an off the ball linebacker prior to becoming an edge rusher this season. If you just watched this weekend's game against Oregon you can see his elite closing speed, very similar to Parsons.

-When you watch Georgia play, it isn't Williams flying off the edge, it is actually Jalon Walker. He has a tremendous first step off the ball. Now he can also play any off the ball linebacker position.

Just imagine if Zimmer or a new innovative DC has 3 of these type of players at his disposal, pure chaos!

 

[reddyuta]

Carter will go very early in my opinion,everybody wants the next Micah.

 

[Cowboyny]

Carter will go very early in my opinion,everybody wants the next Micah.

Carter might be the next non QB after Hunter.

 

[darthseinfeld]

We hear the team "position less" more in basketball, a player who can play anywhere. It is becoming more common in today NFL, players who can play all over the field to dictate matchups. We already have two type of these players in Parsons & Overshown. I believe both Adbul Carter and Jalon Walker are in that same category:

-Carter was an off the ball linebacker prior to becoming an edge rusher this season. If you just watched this weekend's game against Oregon you can see his elite closing speed, very similar to Parsons.

-When you watch Georgia play, it isn't Williams flying off the edge, it is actually Jalon Walker. He has a tremendous first step off the ball. Now he can also play any off the ball linebacker position.

Just imagine if Zimmer or a new innovative DC has 3 of these type of players at his disposal, pure chaos!

Id say Overshown is more of a blitzer than a chess peice.

Those types of players are nice to have, but we need a much more solid foundation on the DL

 

[Cowboyny]

Id say Overshown is more of a blitzer than a chess peice.

Those types of players are nice to have, but we need a much more solid foundation on the DL

I know we need interior players, but if the top ones are gone, Walker would be in consideration. We already see the benefit of how Zimmer deploys both players. You can disguise your rush packages where the offense has no idea who is coming on a given passing play. Walker would also been good on early downs, but he is still developing there.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I know we need interior players, but if the top ones are gone, Walker would be in consideration. We already see the benefit of how Zimmer deploys both players. You can disguise your rush packages where the offense has no idea who is coming on a given passing play. Walker would also been good on early downs, but he is still developing there.

Zimmer has only played Micah at LB 24 snaps this year

 

[TheDank]

Yeah, when I watched GA tape for Mykell earlier in the year I consistently noticed Walker looked more like an elite pass rusher. Very much feels like Micah 2.0.

I'm 100% down with taking him early. I've seen some places where he's the top edge or listed above the other edges at least if listed as a LB.

I haven't watched Carter yet but he's shot up. If we can get another elite edge, whether they're traditional or able to be moved around, I think it's worth it.

Idk how valuable being able to move guys from off ball to pass rusher etc is for disguising defenses. I thought we would've seen more success out of it with Micah between Quinn and Zimmer but I feel it was less of an advantage than I thought.

 

[gtb1943]

My problem with Walker is production. I just do not see what I would want to see in a high first rd pick

 

[Cowboyny]

Zimmer has only played Micah at LB 24 snaps this year

He has moved him around the DL.

 

[Cowboyny]

My problem with Walker is production. I just do not see what I would want to see in a high first rd pick

He is more of a best player available option, I agree he is a little green and is more of an upside pick.

 

[beware_d-ware]

How many chess pieces are there actually running around in the NFL?

There's talk about positionless defense, but in a league that calls cover-2 or a similar conservative zone (cover 3, 4, 6, etc) on 2/3rds of its plays, there's essentially 3 positions. Pass rusher, under-zone defender (LB/box safety/nickel), and deep zone defender. The labels change, but the assignments play to play stay pretty consistent.

Carter and Walker don't look like great under-zone defenders, or at least not as phenomenal as they do as pass rushers. So I'll bet now that they are going to spend 90%+ of their NFL snaps edge rushing. They're not guys you want to have reading a high-low sail combo route, and feeling how far they can cheat to the high route before the safety takes over, when you could have them speed-rushing a tackle and chasing the QB. That's where they both look special.

 

[gtb1943]

He is more of a best player available option, I agree he is a little green and is more of an upside pick.

do not use a top 10 or 15 pick on a developmental project; one with 'potential' but had not shown a lot of production

 

[darthseinfeld]

How many chess pieces are there actually running around in the NFL?

There's talk about positionless defense, but in a league that calls cover-2 or a similar conservative zone (cover 3, 4, 6, etc) on 2/3rds of its plays, there's essentially 3 positions. Pass rusher, under-zone defender (LB/box safety/nickel), and deep zone defender. The labels change, but the assignments play to play stay pretty consistent.

Carter and Walker don't look like great under-zone defenders, or at least not as phenomenal as they do as pass rushers. So I'll bet now that they are going to spend 90%+ of their NFL snaps edge rushing. They're not guys you want to have reading a high-low sail combo route, and feeling how far they can cheat to the high route before the safety takes over, when you could have them speed-rushing a tackle and chasing the QB. That's where they both look special.

Most of the "linebackers" that rush the passer get maybe 50 tackles a year. The hybrid LB/DE rarely works out where a player really plays both spots. Micahs rookie year was a rare exception.

Anthony Barr is in his prime is probably the best example. He had a few Pro Bowls, but he was really a game changer at either spot

 

[baltcowboy]

We hear the team "position less" more in basketball, a player who can play anywhere. It is becoming more common in today NFL, players who can play all over the field to dictate matchups. We already have two type of these players in Parsons & Overshown. I believe both Adbul Carter and Jalon Walker are in that same category:

-Carter was an off the ball linebacker prior to becoming an edge rusher this season. If you just watched this weekend's game against Oregon you can see his elite closing speed, very similar to Parsons.

-When you watch Georgia play, it isn't Williams flying off the edge, it is actually Jalon Walker. He has a tremendous first step off the ball. Now he can also play any off the ball linebacker position.

Just imagine if Zimmer or a new innovative DC has 3 of these type of players at his disposal, pure chaos!

I am in favor of another chest piece to go along with Micah and Overshown with Kneeland and Sam Williams as wild cards.

 

[Cowboyny]

How many chess pieces are there actually running around in the NFL?

There's talk about positionless defense, but in a league that calls cover-2 or a similar conservative zone (cover 3, 4, 6, etc) on 2/3rds of its plays, there's essentially 3 positions. Pass rusher, under-zone defender (LB/box safety/nickel), and deep zone defender. The labels change, but the assignments play to play stay pretty consistent.

Carter and Walker don't look like great under-zone defenders, or at least not as phenomenal as they do as pass rushers. So I'll bet now that they are going to spend 90%+ of their NFL snaps edge rushing. They're not guys you want to have reading a high-low sail combo route, and feeling how far they can cheat to the high route before the safety takes over, when you could have them speed-rushing a tackle and chasing the QB. That's where they both look special.

Good explanation, so you view them more as edge rushers?

 

[Cowboyny]

I am in favor of another chest piece to go along with Micah and Overshown with Kneeland and Sam Williams as wild cards.

What we truly need is a war daddy interior player

 

[tm1119]

My problem with Walker is production. I just do not see what I would want to see in a high first rd pick

I’ll be honest that I haven’t done a deep dive on Walker yet, but he does feel very similar to Nolan Smith a couple of years ago. Walker is a little bigger so maybe that will help him on the edge, but I do fear the “Jack of all trades, master of none” guys in the 1st round…especially when you’re playing on Georgia’s stacked defense

 

[cnuball21]

We hear the team "position less" more in basketball, a player who can play anywhere. It is becoming more common in today NFL, players who can play all over the field to dictate matchups. We already have two type of these players in Parsons & Overshown. I believe both Adbul Carter and Jalon Walker are in that same category:

-Carter was an off the ball linebacker prior to becoming an edge rusher this season. If you just watched this weekend's game against Oregon you can see his elite closing speed, very similar to Parsons.

-When you watch Georgia play, it isn't Williams flying off the edge, it is actually Jalon Walker. He has a tremendous first step off the ball. Now he can also play any off the ball linebacker position.

Just imagine if Zimmer or a new innovative DC has 3 of these type of players at his disposal, pure chaos!

Carter has turned into a full time Edge…I can see him moving around a bit but don’t see him playing off ball in the NFL.

I think Walker is probably closer to what we thought the original plan for Parsons would be. He plays off ball but is a natural rusher off the edge who can give you pass rush snaps. He’s an intriguing option if he’s BPA.

 

[DIAF]

Jalon Walker is definitely more of an off-ball disruptor, he doesn't really look special except for when he's attacking the backfield, and even then he's a bit inconsistent. Anywhere else on the field and he's just kinda eh. I'd much rather have Carter.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Good explanation, so you view them more as edge rushers?

100%. From what I've watched, Carter almost never drops into coverage. He'll line up as an LB, but he'll rush the QB from that position. His explosion is so uber elite that I want him doing nothing but speed-rushing the tackle.

Walker is more of a true tweener and does do some coverage drops. He looks good at it, but not high first round pick kind of good. It's hard for a pure LB to even go top 20, and he's definitely not at that Jack Campbell, LVE type level as a linebacker. The foundation of his draft stock is edge rushing.

Most of the "linebackers" that rush the passer get maybe 50 tackles a year. The hybrid LB/DE rarely works out where a player really plays both spots. Micahs rookie year was a rare exception.

Anthony Barr is in his prime is probably the best example. He had a few Pro Bowls, but he was really a game changer at either spot

Anthony Barr is actually a really interesting example, because he was a longtime Zimmer guy. Most of those hybrid LB/DE defenders get moved to DE in the pros. Zim drafted one top 10 and put him at LB.