Amari Cooper and the Antonio Brown Trade

Stash

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There are a lot of top free safeties that had long careers into their late 30s. WRs have some that have played into their late 30s but those tend to be the guys that are over 6-0 and are around 200 pounds. WRs also are extremely reliant on the QB and offense style - targets.

There's no prototype when it comes to great receivers. Heights and weights are all over the place.
 

speedkilz88

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There's no prototype when it comes to great receivers. Heights and weights are all over the place.
You were talking about long career. The smaller guys don't usually last as long and many wrs no matter what their size don't go past 10 years with big numbers. Plus he got way more targets in the steelers system with a franchise qb than he ever will with the raiders and Carr.
 

Stash

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You were talking about long career. The smaller guys don't usually last as long and many wrs no matter what their size don't go past 10 years with big numbers.

Go look at Steve Smith. Smaller than Brown and top-10 all -time. And guys like Isaac Bruce were even thinner than Brown is and he's up there too. There is no prototype.

Plus he got way more targets in the steelers system with a franchise qb than he ever will with the raiders and Carr.

Speculation.
 

John813

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So was that Coopers fault? Is Dak a better passer then Carr? Why not build around your top 5 picks. Oakland chose to move Amari and Mack. It's not going to be easy replacing that talent and (age) unless you have two more top 5 picks or get very lucky. Maybe Mayock can find some hidden gems

No? It's more on the line of Davis being a cheap ***. Gruden wasn't behind the trades. Mark Davis didn't want to deal with Segal(agent) again and allowed his GM/Coach to shop him around. Dallas gave Oakland their asking price and that was that.
 

McKDaddy

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Raiders are playing leverage. They leveraged Dallas's desperation to get a first when the market was a second. They leveraged Pittsburgh's desire to put the issue behind them to pick up what has been the most productive wr in the league for mid round picks.

Whether it works out for them is yet to be seen but on paper they did pretty well.
 

Rogerthat12

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Lol.
 

CWR

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Go back and check Coopers production again. He had one down season and, he was injured.

Cooper has been very productive for 3 out of 4 years in the league.

Yes 2017 and the first half of 2018 were down.

Im not disputing his game, only that his production doesn't compare to AB.
 
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J12B

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Wasn't Brown just an above average receiver when Rothlesberger was out injured.

No doubt AB is an amazing talent but QB play is what really determines a WRs greatness.

I don't see Carr making AB special in Oakland like Big Ben in Pittsburgh.
 

HungryLion

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Yes 2017 and the first half of 2018 were down.

Im not disputing his game, only that his production doesn't compare to AB.

It doesn’t really have to, to be honest. It wasn’t a straight up trade. The 6 year age difference matters a lot when it comes to player value too. Although some on this site won’t admt that.
 

Nightman

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There's zero signs of physical dropoff.

The same people talking about signing Earl Thomas at 30 now have a problem with Brown being 30 as well. Funny how that works.
Mental dropoff signs are popping off though
 

Verdict

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If Dallas turned that into the best receiver in football and added a first round pick, I'd be doing cartwheels, and so would you.

I don't really think it matters who "won" between the Cowboys and the Raiders. I guess someone can compare that if they want to, and it's a logical thing to do, but ultimately the question we should judge this trade on is "was the trade we made with the Raiders worth the pick"?

I was leaning toward it was too much to pay, but after seeing the results last season on the field, I was leaning toward the front office made a very good trade. I may revisit this again after Amari gets his new contract because that's going to be a factor too.

Ultimately, in the short run the Raiders got a better player but a cancer. I think the smart money is saying that long term no way this turns out well for the Raiders. On the other hand ther emay be a honeymoon period with AB and I think that had long since passed for the Raiders with Amari.
 

Verdict

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Are we trying to convince ourselves that we would rather have cooper than brown and a 1st round pick....

I think that's what it comes down to....people still not convinced it was a good trade for us....I think it was an awesome pickup and I'd take him and his great attitude over brown and his drama any day

The AB cancer factor over rides everything else and age is against them too. But it's interesting to talk about.
 

mattjames2010

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72 catches for over 1000 yards and 6 Tds is a bad rookie season?

He led the league in drops...

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Coopers-Drop-Rate-Ranks-Among-NFLs-Worst-479158283.html

Wrote Scott Barrett of PFF: “Cooper led the league in drops (18) and drop rate (20.0 percent) in his rookie season (2015), but then seemed to get past the issue in 2016, dropping only four passes. In 2017, Cooper again led the league in drop rate (17.2 percent). Not only are these numbers bad, but they’re historically bad. Since 2007, there have only been three players to see at least 100 targets and post a drop rate of 17 percent or worse: Braylon Edwards (2007 and 2008), Greg Little (2011) and Cooper (2015 and 2017).”

And despite having 5 100 games, he still only had barely 1,000 yards receiving which tells you he wasn't exactly tearing it up in his other games.

Get context. 20 percent drop rate is freakin' terrible.
 

Crazed Liotta Eyes

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He led the league in drops...

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Coopers-Drop-Rate-Ranks-Among-NFLs-Worst-479158283.html

Wrote Scott Barrett of PFF: “Cooper led the league in drops (18) and drop rate (20.0 percent) in his rookie season (2015), but then seemed to get past the issue in 2016, dropping only four passes. In 2017, Cooper again led the league in drop rate (17.2 percent). Not only are these numbers bad, but they’re historically bad. Since 2007, there have only been three players to see at least 100 targets and post a drop rate of 17 percent or worse: Braylon Edwards (2007 and 2008), Greg Little (2011) and Cooper (2015 and 2017).”

And despite having 5 100 games, he still only had barely 1,000 yards receiving which tells you he wasn't exactly tearing it up in his other games.

Get context. 20 percent drop rate is freakin' terrible.
Drop rate was bad but that's still awfully productive for a rookie WR.
 

mattjames2010

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Drop rate was bad but that's still awfully productive for a rookie WR.

No, not just bad - it was terrible. Braylon Edwards terrible. There is no getting around it.

And again, this is the issue with Cooper, big games followed by stretches of mediocrity and being a ghost. His rookie season was not good - raw numbers don't tell you the whole story.

He's a guy that plays well when everything around him is working - otherwise, he doesn't show up. He has a major focus problem.
 

xwalker

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Some have said that "Gruden has replaced Amari Cooper and two mid-round picks with Antonio Brown and a first-rounder. That's a ridiculous upgrade" but is it really? Let's break it down.

Amari Cooper (24 year old) Top 5 Pick was traded for a Late 1st rounder= Massive fail. Based on what he did in Dallas after he left, the Raiders and Gruden had massive egg on their face

Antonio Brown (31 Year Old) was acquired for a 3rd and 5th round pick and paid $50 million dollars just to attempt to remove the egg that's on their face from the Cooper trade. Problem with the trade is AB is older, he has an attitude problem and the trade does not fit the Raider Model of rebuilding. Production wise Antonio Brown who was catching 100-120 balls a year with 12-15 TD's will probably be a 70-80 catch guy in Oakland and score 7-10 TD's next year and then down from there. He may breakout in the first season to prove himself but by the time the Raiders get to Las Vegas in 2020, AB will be 32 and clearly on the back 9 of his career, not a great situation for the Las Vegas Raiders. They paid for past production. They will roll into Vegas with the "Oldest" WR tandem in the NFL 35 year old Jordy Nelson and 32 year old Antonio Brown. Would have been awesome back in 2015, great work Gruden.

In the end:

Raiders Lose - 24 year old Amari Cooper (Top 5 Pick), 3rd round pick, 5th Round Pick

Raiders Gain - Late 1st rounder and an aging 31 year old veteran with a $50 Million dollar contract

EPIC FAIL

Agree.
 

Crazed Liotta Eyes

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No, not just bad - it was terrible. Braylon Edwards terrible. There is no getting around it.

And again, this is the issue with Cooper, big games followed by stretches of mediocrity and being a ghost. His rookie season was not good - raw numbers don't tell you the whole story.

He's a guy that plays well when everything around him is working - otherwise, he doesn't show up. He has a major focus problem.
I guess we'll see going forward. Hopefully, he's working on his craft and will improve. Still a young guy.
 

DFWJC

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Dallas did fine, assuming they sign Cooper long term. Probably gave up what would've been a top 10-12 pick for a top 10 WR that is only 25. Downside is that they got him 1.5 years and he's not going to be on a rookie deal. But he's damn good.

Oakland did fine in getting a 1st round pick and a top 5, 30 year old WR (committed to 3 years) while giving up a top 10, 25 year old WR (committed for 1 year) plus two mid round picks.

Pittsburgh got hosed massively except that the top 5 WR that led the league in TDs that they lost was a bit of a headache
Monetarily, they still take a huge cap hit.
 
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