An elite player on defense makes everybody else better

[Teague31]

The defense is just bad on every level. Outside of Lee and maybe Smith, Irving and Collins every other guy on that side of the ball is average or below.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

The defense is just bad on every level. Outside of Lee and maybe Smith, Irving and Collins every other guy on that side of the ball is average or below.

I don't agree with this assessment at all. The defense is decent but can be exposed by an elite QB. If we want to win a title, it needs to get better.

But fifth in points allowed, although aided by a ball-control offense, isn't the mark of a defense that is just bad on every level. If we get the same secondary play as we got in 2016, and add a pass rush, this will be a very good defense.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Until this team gets a consistent pass rush we'll always be just good enough. 13-3 was great but all it takes is one good QB to carve us up in the playoffs. No matter how good our Oline, Dak and Zeke are. The results will be the same.

 

[tm1119]

I love how the term "elite" is being thrown out there like it's no problem. Getting 2 elite defenders in the same off season, why didn't anyone ever think of this before??

But seriously, we will most likely be adding 0 elite players this off season unless we get really lucky in the draft. Be realistic and hope for upgrades

 

[Teague31]

I don't agree with this assessment at all. The defense is decent but can be exposed by an elite QB. If we want to win a title, it needs to get better.

But fifth in points allowed, although aided by a ball-control offense, isn't the mark of a defense that is just bad on every level. If we get the same secondary play as we got in 2016, and add a pass rush, this will be a very good defense.

Other than ones unnamed, whom on this defense is at least abover average. Jeff Heath has led the team in picks for two straight years. This years leading sack man had 6. It's a group of try hard guys that had inflated numbers playing some really bad offenses (SF, Cleveland, philly, Baltimore, Chicago, etc). Every single good offense they played dominated them.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Other than ones unnamed, whom on this defense is at least abover average. Jeff Heath has led the team in picks for two straight years. This years leading sack man had 6. It's a group of try hard guys that had inflated numbers playing some really bad offenses (SF, Cleveland, philly, Baltimore, Chicago, etc). Every single good offense they played dominated them.

Carr was above average. Claiborne (when healthy) was above average. Byron Jones and Tyrone Crawford were above average. Granted none of those players was great, but I bet they'd all start for at least 25 teams in this league.

I acknowledged they could be had by an elite QB. The regular season-ender against Philly aside, the list of teams to top 23 points against Dallas in 2017 was Pittsburgh, Green Bay and Washington. Only Pitt and GB made it past 26. They had one thing in common: an elite QB. I'm not saying 26 points allowed is good, but it's not exactly being dominated.

 

[dallasfan4lizife]

Other than ones unnamed, whom on this defense is at least abover average. Jeff Heath has led the team in picks for two straight years. This years leading sack man had 6. It's a group of try hard guys that had inflated numbers playing some really bad offenses (SF, Cleveland, philly, Baltimore, Chicago, etc). Every single good offense they played dominated them.

See, what I believe is this scheme just flat out sucks.

The game has passed Marinelli by, and I'm not sure how much longer we can afford to keep him around.

 

[Kaiser]

Other than ones unnamed, whom on this defense is at least abover average.

Sean Lee called, he said something about finding you while you sleep.

 

[Kaiser]

Carr was above average. Claiborne (when healthy) was above average. Byron Jones and Tyrone Crawford were above average. Granted none of those players was great, but I bet they'd all start for at least 25 teams in this league.

I think Carr was average for a #2 CB, below that for a #1 obviously. The issue was when he had to play in the #1 role with Claiborne out.

Like you say, the issue is health. Claiborne played well but missed more games than he started. DLaw is capable of it but was hurt all year. Tyrone Crawford is also but played through 3 minor injuries this year and one major one in 2015.

Also I think the combination of McClain and Thornton together make an above average 1T, but that isn't a glamour position obviously. The same for SAM, Damien WIlson is fine but that position isn't on the field enough that you would want to spend a bunch of FA cash or a high draft pick on it.

Bryon Jones was above average and will only get better. Sean Lee was an All Pro and Jaylon Smith would have been a top five pick if healthy.

Bottom line is that the defense needs work, but there are more pieces to work with than most posters here give it credit for.

 

[gmoney112]

True.

Hard to find that elite player though. Berry or Poe will probably be available in FA. Maybe JPP. That would be tempting though probably not realistic.

If adding an elite player isn't feasible, we really just need to find a way to lower opponent passer rating, however we can. A 2 year plan to reduce the average passer rating by 10 points would do a ton.

Really, this off-season, if we can find a way to reduce it by an average of 5 points while keeping turnovers up, that'd be a great start. However we manage it, as long as we're building on the foundation.

We just have to find a way to make opposing QBs less efficient. Concentrating on adding as much young talent as we can, and spending a little more on some stop gaps that can actually play, and that's definitely feasible.

 

[Kaiser]

here are a lot of possibilities for DEs in the draft but picking the right one at #28 will be difficult. It's different than some years where the cutoff between really good and developmental DEs was obvious. This year there seems to be a bigger group of DEs that might be really good but less that seem definite. There are guys being projected to be 2nd rounders that don't look much different than some guys projected to the top half of the first.

That is my first impression of this draft, it could be like the draft where they picked DLaw in that they focus on several players and see who drops to them at their draft slots. It was the same with Maliek Collins last year, they had a high grade on him but got him in the third and it was a great choice.

 

[xwalker]

It's too bad we won't know about Jaylon for a few months. We can't afford to wait on him or any other rookie. At least one quality free agent needs to be added. IMO Either a qualty pass rusher or lockdown corner to make our current line better.

If they really don't know by now that seems like a problem. Hopefully he really can play with the brace if needed.

 

[haleyrules]

If just a couple of our holdover d-linemen from 2016 improve considerably and we get a good pass rusher in the draft, we would be in business. Of course, Jaylon would likely tend to add to that situation handsomely. Such simple possibilities are far from being wishful thinking, imho.

Agreed. Curious to know if Smith returns..IF...will he be a great NFL player? There is no gaurantee he will be a Star in the NFL.

 

[haleyrules]

It's too bad we won't know about Jaylon for a few months. We can't afford to wait on him or any other rookie. At least one quality free agent needs to be added. IMO Either a qualty pass rusher or lockdown corner to make our current line better.

Yep. Agreed. Smith is no certainty..any which way you want it. His promise is based on hope.

 

[xwalker]

I love how the term "elite" is being thrown out there like it's no problem. Getting 2 elite defenders in the same off season, why didn't anyone ever think of this before??

But seriously, we will most likely be adding 0 elite players this off season unless we get really lucky in the draft. Be realistic and hope for upgrades

I think you are missing the point of the thread.

Call it what you like. I could just say if any two positions are significantly upgraded that the remaining players also get better.

The concept is easier to visualize and explain if I use the extreme example which is "elite" players. The concept still applies if the new players are significant upgrades even if they are not at a definitive elite level. Maybe Melvin Ingram or Nick Perry would be significant upgrades over Mayowa even if they are not Von Miller level players.

 

[Nightman]

I think you are missing the point of the thread.

Call it what you like. I could just say if any two positions are significantly upgraded that the remaining players also get better.

The concept is easier to visualize and explain if I use the extreme example which is "elite" players. The concept still applies if the new players are significant upgrades even if they are not at a definitive elite level. Maybe Melvin Ingram or Nick Perry would be significant upgrades over Mayowa even if they are not Von Miller level players.

We have to pay thru the nose for Ingram, Perry, CJones or JPP......if we don't we have to add a WDE in the mid level range.....and we still need to draft a WDE....this allows DLaw to go back to SDE and TCrawford back to 3T......signing a top WDE might also allow us to draft OJ Sanitago

We have to sign Mo......he is the best CB by far.....we also need to sign a Carr type and draft one early or another good one late like ABrown

JSmith will be a monster improvement to the MIKE and Nickel

If we could get Eric Berry that would be huge..... I doubt he hits the market

 

[big dog cowboy]

If we could get Eric Berry that would be huge..... I doubt he hits the market

0% chance he hits the market.

 

[MileyDancer]

Agreed. Curious to know if Smith returns..IF...will he be a great NFL player? There is no gaurantee he will be a Star in the NFL.

I'm just going to assume it's another 2nd round bust. The chances of that happening are higher than him being this stud everyone has built him up to be, imo.