Another Ellis thread

[jay cee]

I see no problem with what Ellis is doing.

You guys like to say football is a business, IMO he is trying to take care of one of the uglier business aspects of the game.

To make the most money you can in your career.

The Cowboys want him to take a lesser role, then likely release so they won't have to pay him for the last two years of his contract I believe.

But his lesser role with the team would make it harder for him to sign a contract with a new team that would allow him to recoup the money that he will lose when he is released.

All the Cowboys have to do to shut him up is ensure that they will pay him the last years of the contract. That is money for which he signed to play.

Under the rules, the Cowboys are not required to guarantee him that money (and that seems ok with most fans).

And under those same rules, Ellis is not required to go to the off season work outs (and that seems to be a real problem for those same fans).

It seems to me, you guys want a player to only be about the business, when it better suits the team that you root for, not when it comes down to looking after his best interests.

I don't mind that Ellis is taking this route, and I wish the Cowboys would grant him his wish and release him, so they can go on with their plans of building a superbowl contender this season.

I don't think the loss of Ellis will hamper those efforts much at all.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

If the Cowboys want to keep Eliis they should guarantee the final years of his contract. If not they should release him and send him on his way. Before he becomes a distraction.

As far as the rules go. These are voluntary workouts. You go or dont, so be it. An advantage is gained by going.

As far as business goes, I think it is unfortunate that so many players dont honor their contracts, and the same goes for the owners. Yet in many businesses, if you are relieved of your duties, then a severance pay is due which is seperate from a signing bonus.

 

[Alexander]

If the Cowboys want to keep Eliis they should guarantee the final years of his contract. If not they should release him and send him on his way. Before he becomes a distraction.

As far as the rules go. These are voluntary workouts. You go or dont, so be it. An advantage is gained by going.

As far as business goes, I think it is unfortunate that so many players dont honor their contracts, and the same goes for the owners. Yet in many businesses, if you are relieved of your duties, then a severance pay is due which is seperate from a signing bonus.

From a business perspective, that's suicidal.

Nobody guarantees the final years of any contracts.

What amazes me is that there are still some bleeding hearts who are pleading for Jones to give him the money. These are the same people who were probably griping at him for being loyal to players like Novacek and Haley and skewered him for having dead money on the cap.

Greg Ellis will not be worth his contract in 2008. Guaranteeing any of this is akin to throwing money away.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

From a business perspective, that's suicidal.

Nobody guarantees the final years of any contracts.

What amazes me is that there are still some bleeding hearts who are pleading for Jones to give him the money. These are the same people who were probably griping at him for being loyal to players like Novacek and Haley and skewered him for having dead money on the cap.

Greg Ellis will not be worth his contract in 2008. Guaranteeing any of this is akin to throwing money away.

In some ways it is the players own fault.

They want that guarenteed money up front and they will go for those HUGE backloaded deals.

I am pretty sure they know they will not get it but at the same time their pride says...Look at the money that is in that contract.

It is a way for them to look like a big player since the contract money is so HUGE, once again even if they know they will never see those last years with inflated salaries.

They are not thinking longterm IMO. Because when those last years come about and they know the team will not pay them that money due to the cap. They start wanting to redo the contract or get extra guarentees.

Now young players don't mind it so much because even if they are cut they know they can get a good deal elsewhere if they are a good player. Normally it is the older players that know their time is short that starts this kind of thing.

However if they would have just said spread the guarenteed money over a longer period of time an just drop the salary for those years do to the guarenteed signing bonus.

 

[Alexander]

In some ways it is the players own fault.

They want that guarenteed money up front and they will go for those HUGE backloaded deals.

Correct.

And if we indeed do as he asks, it would revolutionize contracts as we know it, not just on the Cowboys, but across the NFL. This would become the "Greg Ellis" rule. Players could suddenly decide they don't like offensive systems and demand "commitments". They already do that to an extent as it is. It is just rare that anyone takes a soft stance when it escalates to this level.

I am pretty confident Jerry and Stephen are smart enough not to do this.

 

[wileedog]

Greg Ellis will not be worth his contract in 2008.

Honeslty, if he thrives in a McGinnest role he will be. I think he makes 3M in 2008 and 4M in 2009, and McGinnest himself (who is obviously much older) just signed a $3M deal.

But I certainly would never guarantee it, especially to a guy on the wrong side of 30 who seems to care more about committments and guinea pigs then coming to practice and learning his new position.

 

[Alexander]

Honeslty, if he thrives in a McGinnest role he will be. I think he makes 3M in 2008 and 4M in 2009, and McGinnest himself (who is obviously much older) just signed a $3M deal.

But I certainly would never guarantee it, especially to a guy on the wrong side of 30 who seems to care more about committments and guinea pigs then coming to practice and learning his new position.

I completely agree, but I don't think Ellis has the fortitude to actually make the change without the guarantees. I wouldn't gamble on him making it anyway. He doesn't have enough faith in the system and his abilities in it to do that.

 

[DLCassidy]

I see no problem with what Ellis is doing.

You guys like to say football is a business, IMO he is trying to take care of one of the uglier business aspects of the game.

To make the most money you can in your career.

Most of us would have less of a problem if he was more honest about his motives.

The Cowboys want him to take a lesser role, then likely release so they won't have to pay him for the last two years of his contract I believe.

All Ellis has to do to complete his contract here is be productive. 8 sacks a year getting half the snaps is adequate to keep him here and it's what Ellis did last year in the same defense. Bill Parcells thinks he can be effective. Eliis seems to have less confidence in himself.

But his lesser role with the team would make it harder for him to sign a contract with a new team that would allow him to recoup the money that he will lose when he is released.

Effective pass rushers are never released unless they have killer contracts. Ellis does not have a killer contract. It's not about us releasing Ellis it's about Ellis wanting more money.

All the Cowboys have to do to shut him up is ensure that they will pay him the last years of the contract. That is money for which he signed to play.

Why should we? Why is Ellis special? The whole league plays under the same basic agreement, bargained in good faith with a strong union. It's all about paying for performance. If Ellis performs, he has nothing to worry about. He said it himself. But why should we guarantee his deal so he can sit back and eat chocolate bon bons and watch Oprah?

Under the rules, the Cowboys are not required to guarantee him that money (and that seems ok with most fans).

And under those same rules, Ellis is not required to go to the off season work outs (and that seems to be a real problem for those same fans).

Of course it's a problem. Not attending the workouts is bad for Ellis and it's bad for the team as a whole. What would happen if noone attended the workouts? They have them for a reason. Ellis is supposed to be a leader. Is that the way a leader leads?

It seems to me, you guys want a player to only be about the business, when it better suits the team that you root for, not when it comes down to looking after his best interests.

We're Cowboys fans not Ellis fans. Ellis signed a contract of his own free will. The Cowboys are standing behind their part. Ellis should do the same. If you don't think the basic agreement is fair, write to Gene Upshaw.

I don't mind that Ellis is taking this route, and I wish the Cowboys would grant him his wish and release him, so they can go on with their plans of building a superbowl contender this season.

I don't think the loss of Ellis will hamper those efforts much at all.

Ellis is an asset to this team. How is releasing Ellis good for the Cowboys? We should at least get something in return for him if he continues to be a baby. You sound like a relative of Greg's.

 

[Alexander]

We're Cowboys fans not Ellis fans. Ellis signed a contract of his own free will. The Cowboys are standing behind their part. Ellis should do the same. If you don't think the basic agreement is fair, write to Gene Upshaw.

This is also the elected Union representative to this football team.

If anyone knows about contracts and how they operate, I believe Greg Ellis of all people would know. So there wasn't confusion when he signed the contract in 2003.

And now, after a brand new CBA which was clearly to the advantage of the player, he takes it upon himself to demand compensation up front because he is insecure? I don't know how on earth it can be seen as much more than posturing, hoping the team blinks and satisfies one of his two conditions: pay me or release me.

 

[TheHustler]

It's understandable, but it sucks.

Greg doesn't seem to fully buy into BP's idea of using him as a utility man. If he did, he'd know his 8 sacks a year are enough to make him a Cowboy for life.

 

[Alexander]

It's understandable, but it sucks.

Greg doesn't seem to fully buy into BP's idea of using him as a utility man. If he did, he'd know his 8 sacks a year are enough to make him a Cowboy for life.

Agreed. It is not a secret that Jerry Jones is extremely loyal to his players, moreso than any owner in the league. He's proven it.