Article: Jets' Miller shows little sense (4:20 am; night club)

Angus

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Jets' Miller shows little sense
May 22, 2007

What struck me initially wasn't the alleged crime, but the time. It was 4:20 in the morning. Has anything good ever happened at that hour?

Nothing is awake at 4:20 except trouble, and at this stage of the game, an NFL player should know that. The longer you stay out, the more likely something will go terribly wrong, as it did two days ago for Justin Miller, a Jets kick returner and cornerback who didn't have the good sense to return home early. Instead, he just gave a whole new meaning to Miller Time.

Next was the setting: a nightclub. Nothing strange ever happens there, right? Those fine establishments are filled with liquor, hot women and testosterone-fueled guys looking and bracing for some action. Put that into a mixer and shake a few times and see what pours into your cocktail glass. Add a twist of fame and jealousy and misunderstanding, and you'll have the ingredients that make a good many of the recent incidents that forced the NFL to take a tough stance on knucklehead behavior.

Miller's problem early Sunday morning was the time and place. That's what got him into trouble. That led to what happened next. And if you went back and checked the NFL blotter, you'd see a pattern: young players putting themselves in position for something bad to happen, sometimes caused by them, sometimes by others.

In most cases, the root of their problem is liquor or women or both, and some young players with their first taste of celebrity and privilege can't handle either. They come into a mature and professional world without mastering the part about being mature or professional and subsequently fall into all the traps. You see DUIs, rowdiness, spousal abuse, girlfriend abuse, babymomma abuse, the works.

You see Miller, according to police reports, getting into a fight and hitting a woman who was a bystander in a club just before the break of dawn. A wise person wouldn't have been in that spot in the first place.

We don't really know who or what exactly started this latest NFL incident, but again, that's not the issue. Time and place. That's the issue. Being in a club at 4:20 a.m.? That's no crime, but that's asking for one to happen.

The Jets will not trade Miller to the Bengals. No, his punishment won't be that harsh. But he must deal with Roger Goodell and the commissioner's rapidly reduced tolerance level for bad behavior. Miller will discover that this is the wrong time to get dirty, unless you're in uniform.

Weary of his players appearing outside of the sports pages, Goodell is coming down hard and doling out suspensions when and where necessary through the league's new Personal Conduct Policy, also known as the Pacman Policy. On principle, Goodell has every right to yank football away from the repeat offenders, and this is why Miller issued the fastest apology in sports history. He's nervous because his past is gaining on him. He was arrested on disorderly conduct charges the week before the Jets drafted him in 2005 and has a prior DUI charge.

Although neither of those incidents officially came on the NFL's watch, my hunch is the Jets better see if Johnny "Lam" Jones is still fast enough to return kicks for the opener.

Strictly from a fairness standpoint, however, Goodell's policy doesn't measure up well against its biggest abuser. Since being drafted in 2005 by the Titans, Pacman Jones has interviewed with police 10 times for numerous reasons and been arrested five times. And he did throw money around Feb. 19 in a Vegas strip club in an incident that resulted in a man being shot three times and paralyzed from the waist. But Jones hasn't been convicted of anything, and he and his attorney listed 280 other players arrested or charged since 2000 who weren't suspended for an entire season, the punishment for Jones.

You won't find anyone feeling sorry for Pacman or anyone else who becomes a menace away from the field, however. Not only is Goodell's policy meant to stamp out the nonsense and the idiots, but it also has the full support of the many law-abiding NFL players. They're tired, too. They're sick of being lumped with a handful of immature fools who insist on giving the league a bad image, when the majority of players confine their violence to the field on Sunday afternoon.

Now that's the right time and place to cause problems.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/print...71may22,0,6192750.column?coll=ny-sports-print
 

adamknite

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Angus;1506010 said:
Jets' Miller shows little sense
May 22, 2007

What struck me initially wasn't the alleged crime, but the time. It was 4:20 in the morning. Has anything good ever happened at that hour?

Nothing is awake at 4:20 except trouble

I've been saying the same thing for a while now. These players must think that it's just a coincidence that all these bad things keep happening late at night at questionable places.
 

iceberg

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this is such crap. "nothing good ever happens at 4:20am...."

i've seen drive by's at 2pm.
i've seen speeding motorcycles doing wheelies and playing chase down 35 at 8pm
i've seen fist fights in church parking lots on sunday noon.

yea bad things can happen at 4:20 but NOTHING good ever happens? that just gets old.
 

Vintage

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iceberg;1506019 said:
this is such crap. "nothing good ever happens at 4:20am...."

i've seen drive by's at 2pm.
i've seen speeding motorcycles doing wheelies and playing chase down 35 at 8pm
i've seen fist fights in church parking lots on sunday noon.

yea bad things can happen at 4:20 but NOTHING good ever happens? that just gets old.


No kidding. All a player has to do is behave himself and exercise good judgement when he goes out.

You can be safe at 4:20 am if you choose to act appropriately. Miller obviously chose not to.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Crown Royal;1506014 said:
I know a lot of people who love 420 am. And 420 PM for that matter.

blackmildcrm.jpg


Huh?...What?
 

AbeBeta

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Crown Royal;1506014 said:
I know a lot of people who love 420 am. And 420 PM for that matter.

420 baby.

I live in a serious 420 town -- April 20th is a holiday here.
 

AbeBeta

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adamknite;1506013 said:
I've been saying the same thing for a while now. These players must think that it's just a coincidence that all these bad things keep happening late at night at questionable places.

There are also a lot of good things that can happen late at night at questionable places. If you catch my drift.
 

TNCowboy

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iceberg;1506019 said:
this is such crap. "nothing good ever happens at 4:20am...."

i've seen drive by's at 2pm.
i've seen speeding motorcycles doing wheelies and playing chase down 35 at 8pm
i've seen fist fights in church parking lots on sunday noon.

yea bad things can happen at 4:20 but NOTHING good ever happens? that just gets old.
It's a relevant point. Of course bad things can happen at any time of day. But when a man under the age of 30 is out that late, he's usually at a bar or a stripclub, and given the big target that NFL players are, they should have the sense to steer clear of early mornings in such places. That might not be fair, but it's reality.
 

Doomsday101

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adamknite;1506013 said:
I've been saying the same thing for a while now. These players must think that it's just a coincidence that all these bad things keep happening late at night at questionable places.

I have said the same thing yet continue to get the response by some that that is not a factor. Go to any police intake and you will find that more arrest and incident take place during the early morning hours than any other time of day.
 

Doomsday101

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iceberg;1506019 said:
this is such crap. "nothing good ever happens at 4:20am...."

i've seen drive by's at 2pm.
i've seen speeding motorcycles doing wheelies and playing chase down 35 at 8pm
i've seen fist fights in church parking lots on sunday noon.

yea bad things can happen at 4:20 but NOTHING good ever happens? that just gets old.

Crime can take place at any time but it is not an accident that most crimes take place in the early morning hours. This not a fairy tale it is the truth and denying it does not change the facts.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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iceberg;1506019 said:
this is such crap. "nothing good ever happens at 4:20am...."

i've seen drive by's at 2pm.
i've seen speeding motorcycles doing wheelies and playing chase down 35 at 8pm
i've seen fist fights in church parking lots on sunday noon.

yea bad things can happen at 4:20 but NOTHING good ever happens? that just gets old.

Place and Time.

You can give examples of things that happen at other places at other times but it does not change the fact that many bad things do happen outside of bars at 4:00 am or that general time.

I am too lazy to look up the statistics but I would imagine you would find it hard, if not impossible, to find any statistics of fights at churches at noon on sunday in any way comparable to the stats of fights outside of bars in the late night/early morning hours.
 

Vintage

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BrAinPaiNt;1506079 said:
Place and Time.

You can give examples of things that happen at other places at other times but it does not change the fact that many bad things do happen outside of bars at 4:00 am or that general time.

I am too lazy to look up the statistics but I would imagine you would find it hard, if not impossible, to find any statistics of fights at churches at noon on sunday in any way comparable to the stats of fights outside of bars in the late night/early morning hours.


And if he never left the house except to go to practice/game, he would reduce the risks even more so. I bet the statistics on that would be even less than going to church on Sunday.

The problem isn't that it was at 4:20 am.

It was WHAT he did. Its that simple.

We wouldn't be discussing this if he opted NOT to hit anyone.
 

iceberg

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Double Trouble;1506061 said:
It's a relevant point. Of course bad things can happen at any time of day. But when a man under the age of 30 is out that late, he's usually at a bar or a stripclub, and given the big target that NFL players are, they should have the sense to steer clear of early mornings in such places. That might not be fair, but it's reality.

hey - i leave bars at 2am or later all the time if i'm hosting the show. am i "evil" now? only out during the "dangerous" times? i'm not driving home drunk, picking up strippers (i leave them at the club) or shooting people who drive by in off-color chevy's.

just tired of the non-proven "but it's reality" mantra that nighttime is the time for trouble only and you'd better not be out in it.
 

adamknite

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Doomsday101;1506066 said:
I have said the same thing yet continue to get the response by some that that is not a factor. Go to any police intake and you will find that more arrest and incident take place during the early morning hours than any other time of day.

yeah it's funny, of course bad things can happen at any time and at any where. However, if you're at home at 4:20 am sleeping or reading a book, instead of out at a nightclub, how likely are you to get arrested? It's silly to think that the risk of getting into some kind of bad incident doesn't increase the later you're out.

I'm not condeming anybody for how they life their lives, or for what they choose to do in their spare time. There is just one easy solution for it though, if you don't want to get into trouble don't put yourself in a position where it's more likely to happen. If you don't want to get a girl pregnant don't have sex. Things like that should be common sense but sadly they are not to some people.

So I agree completely with you.
 

Doomsday101

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iceberg;1506089 said:
hey - i leave bars at 2am or later all the time if i'm hosting the show. am i "evil" now? only out during the "dangerous" times? i'm not driving home drunk, picking up strippers (i leave them at the club) or shooting people who drive by in off-color chevy's.

just tired of the non-proven "but it's reality" mantra that nighttime is the time for trouble only and you'd better not be out in it.

It is a fact that more crimes take place during the early mourning hours. Friday and Sat during those times even more arrest take place. You’re more likely to have intoxicated people leaving these places and creating trouble. Does that make you a bad person? No your there to do a job that does not change the facts
 

iceberg

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BrAinPaiNt;1506079 said:
Place and Time.

You can give examples of things that happen at other places at other times but it does not change the fact that many bad things do happen outside of bars at 4:00 am or that general time.

I am too lazy to look up the statistics but I would imagine you would find it hard, if not impossible, to find any statistics of fights at churches at noon on sunday in any way comparable to the stats of fights outside of bars in the late night/early morning hours.

no one said it didn't. i know *I* didn't say it was the case. the clubs i go to in dallas and shut down - in all my years of going out you know how many fights i've seen?

1. and it wasn't even much of a fight in as much as some guy at firewater (nice club in dallas) was roughing up a girl who was a friend of the singers wife and i just got up, put him in a full nelson to get him off her, he backed off (as many would when a 6'4" 320lb viking dude is putting you in an arm lock) and calmed down quickly.

i gotta go back 15+ years for the next time i was involved in a bar fight and this guy shut up also when he turned around and saw me.

yes there are beligerant drunks who cause problems. but there are psycho's who also shoot up college campuses in heartbreaking fashion. was he coming home from a bar?

my point is you can go out and have a good time w/o drinking and getting all crazy on people. i do it a lot. i never have problems, i never run into someone itching to kick my tail around, i can use common sense to avoid what looks to be trouble (which i can do while driving also knowing how bad people here drive - it helps me be proactive).

so when someone is out what i get tired of is the seemingly AUTOMATIC ASSUMPTION that since it's in the middle of the night evil was being done and he should have stayed home.

as for church fights and all else - i'm just saying what i've seen, bp. there are "biker" clubs i'm sure and some "dives" you just don't go into cause yes, those *are* going to be trouble and yes, after a hard nights drinking it does make it easier.

i never denied any of that. i ONLY said it's not the automatic this article and many people seem to make it.
 
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