Audio: Irvin Show dissects WR situation

[dcfanatic]

Irvin Show dissects WR situation

By dcfanatic, October 15, 2009 11:15 pm


Soon we are going to be wishing Miles Austin had a good game, but not a 250 yard game, lol.

Here's the crew at The Michael Irvin Show dissecting the WR situation...

Irvin Show gets into the WR scenarios

Money. Positions. Egos. Coaching decisions. Expectations.

It's all in there. This is going to be very interesting to see how the coaching staff handles this deal.

Just got done talking with Bryan Broaddus about all of this on DCFanatic Radio and he said Crayton did not want to discuss the issue in the locker room today.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Amazig how nobody has comented on this thread.

Irvin brings up great points. Basically he says that the X receiver in the NFL is typically the deep-threat guy, while the Z receiver (i.e. the split end on the TE side) plays the intermediate/over the middle game.

He also plays a Werder clip where Werder thinks this may be a problem for Miles Austin who is mainly a deep threat guy. But Irvin the ngoes on to say that when he played the Cowboys flipped it with great success; that while he/Irvin played the X receiver role, he was the intermediate/over the middle guy and Harper, who played the Z, was the deep-threat. What made it work was the TE running the outs to clear hte middle.

As far as the currnet Cowboys team goes, Irvin thinks it can work if they execute a similar setup as the 90s Cowboys, where Roy Williams plays the X as the intermediate/over the middle guy while Austin plays the Z as the deep threat. But Miles Austin also adds some flexibility because he can go over the middle also.

All in all, these are great points, and it's now up to Garrett to make it work. The pieces are in place, finally.

 

[Hoofbite]

What's there to dissect? Crayton is built for the slot and Austin just blew the doors off of Arrowhead.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[kramskoi]

Amazig how nobody has comented on this thread.

Irvin brings up great points. Basically he says that the X receiver in the NFL is typically the deep-threat guy, while the Z receiver (i.e. the split end on the TE side) plays the intermediate/over the middle game.

He also plays a Werder clip where Werder thinks this may be a problem for Miles Austin who is mainly a deep threat guy. But Irvin the ngoes on to say that when he played the Cowboys flipped it with great success; that while he/Irvin played the X receiver role, he was the intermediate/over the middle guy and Harper, who played the Z, was the deep-threat. What made it work was the TE running the outs to clear hte middle.

As far as the currnet Cowboys team goes, Irvin thinks it can work if they execute a similar setup as the 90s Cowboys, where Roy Williams plays the X as the intermediate/over the middle guy while Austin plays the Z as the deep threat. But Miles Austin also adds some flexibility because he can go over the middle also.

All in all, these are great points, and it's now up to Garrett to make it work. The pieces are in place, finally.

...IF...Austin can find consistency then Dallas has something they can build on with Crayton as the Y receiver in the slot [a more natural position for him]...both he and Miles playing a yard or so off the LOS gives them better opportunities for a free release or at least a cleaner one...it also depends on the type of cornerback coverage, man or zone...that said, Dallas has shown that it is'nt above putting Williams at the Z or Y position with Bennett/Witten playing the X...the big catch against Tampa actually came from Williams motioning to Y or slot right, Crayton at Z and both Bennett and Witten as X receivers, even though Witten was off the LOS split to the right of the formation...looks like Crayton ran a quick cross and Williams a go on that play...

...i think that Austin's performance was a shot in the arm to both Romo and the team...he seems particularly lethal on deep outs, where he's shown the ability to shake off a DB or two...don't be surprised if by years end both Choice and Austin become staples of the offense...but it will only happen with consistency and good production...too bad Dallas can't play the Chiefs every week...

...everyone is extremely high on Austin right now but it is rare that receivers have those types of games...it won't happen every week...he does offer the speed dimension with the ability to create space in a defensive secondary...this makes all other receivers jobs a little easier and it forces the secondary to be more wary with coverage schemes...

...that said, Dallas has'nt run as many 3WR sets this year...maybe that changes if Austin continues to rise...

 

[NextGenBoys]

...IF...Austin can find consistency then Dallas has something they can build on with Crayton as the Y receiver in the slot [a more natural position for him]...both he and Miles playing a yard or so off the LOS gives them better opportunities for a free release or at least a cleaner one...it also depends on the type of cornerback coverage, man or zone...that said, Dallas has shown that it is'nt above putting Williams at the Z or Y position with Bennett/Witten playing the X...the big catch against Tampa actually came from Williams motioning to Y or slot right, Crayton at Z and both Bennett and Witten as X receivers, even though Witten was off the LOS split to the right of the formation...looks like Crayton ran a quick cross and Williams a go on that play...

...i think that Austin's performance was a shot in the arm to both Romo and the team...don't be surprised if by years end both Choice and Austin become staples of the offense...but it will only happen with consistency and good production...too bad Dallas can't play the Chiefs every week...

...everyone is extremely high on Austin right now but it is rare that receivers have those types of games...it won't happen every week...he does offer the speed dimension with the ability to create space in a defensive secondary...this makes all other receivers jobs a little easier and it forces the secondary to be more wary with coverage schemes...

...that said, Dallas has'nt run as many 3WR sets this year...maybe that changes if Austin continues to rise...

Good post.

Personally I think alot of Austin's game had to do with poor tackling, but I'll give him credit, he took advantage of it. He needs to catch the ball though. That's always been his downfall, (and poor route running) and it didn't appear to be much better against KC regardless if he had the good game or not.

But maybe confidence can change that. If he can focus and make tough catches, he can be a really good player. To be honest I didnt even think his 50 yard TD and 60 yard TD were anything special. Just atrocious tackling by Kansas City and a decent stuff arm and Miles housed it.

However, the ball that he went up to get and snagged it out of the air away from the defender, THAT'S the play that I think earned him playing time. If he can build on that and make more plays like that, no way he's not starting and a focus of the offense.

With a healthy Felix and Barber though, I dont know how much of a staple Choice can be.

Both are too good of players to take off the field for Choice for more than 4 or 5 plays per game, but we'll see.

 

[Randy White]

is the perfect example of the difference between football followers, and football critics wannabes.

Here are Michael Irvin and Nate Newton, two ex-pro bowl football players explaining what the situation is and how things should be done. Mainly Michael. I found that his ( and Nate's too ) explanation was clear, precise and made football sense. I highly recommend everybody in this forum to listen to it so next time somebody feels the need to slam a player, at least have a background on that criticism.

Then you have the MEDIOT in the background parroting the same thing " well Roy makes 45 million dollars so he has to get the ball and so far Miles Austin has burned him. If he's going to make 45 million dollars he's supposed to be doing what Austin has done ".

What the hell ???

First of all, Terell Owens, Jason Garrett, and Tony Romo were KILLED in the media because of that EXACT thinking. T.O. makes the money, he's the #1 receiver, therefor he has to get the ball no matter what, even if it's forced.

Then when the ball is forced and nothing good happens: " This guys are idiots. Why are Tony Romo and Jason Garrett forcing the ball to a WR who's covered ? T.O. is a selfish mofo because he's screaming for the ball all the time ".


Miles Austin had a break out game. I hope he continues to have breakout games for the rest of the year. But I'll tell you this: he wouldn't have had a breakout game IF the Cowboys were trying to force the ball to Jason Witten, who was the best receiver on that field last week and was the highest paid receiver on that field too.

MEDIOTS like that fool Kevin Kiley ? I think that's his name, are who help shape the wrong perception on how things are in Dallas and/or how they should be. He has a mic, he has a listening audience, so whatever CRAP he says on the air, it must be true ( to that audience ) because, of course, somebody on a radio show wouldn't lie and are presumed to know what they're talking about.

Michael Irvin hit it right on the nose: Line up Roy at Z, line up Miles at X. Have Miles clear out the defense by doing what he does best which is run, while Roy comes underneath cleaning up the field. Then, like Nate points out, have Crayton do what he does best, which is line up on the slot and go get the intermediate 1st downs.

Nate said that everybody in the NFL has his own game. The Cowboys receivers have their own game: Roy is the physical, possesion type, Miles is the deep threat, Crayton is the slot guy. Plus you have one of the best TEs in football and a very talented 2nd guy. Put them out there and let them do what they do best by adjusting the offense to their strength.

But when you have morons like Kiley in the background, who was shut down several times by Michael and Nate, screaming" Roy has to do this because he makes 45 millions, Roy hasn't gone over the middle ( when it's OBVIOUS he has several times ) " that does nothing but feed into a perception that completely full of crap.

 

[kramskoi]

Good post.

Personally I think alot of Austin's game had to do with poor tackling, but I'll give him credit, he took advantage of it. He needs to catch the ball though. That's always been his downfall, (and poor route running) and it didn't appear to be much better against KC regardless if he had the good game or not.

But maybe confidence can change that. If he can focus and make tough catches, he can be a really good player. To be honest I didnt even think his 50 yard TD and 60 yard TD were anything special. Just atrocious tackling by Kansas City and a decent stuff arm and Miles housed it.

However, the ball that he went up to get and snagged it out of the air away from the defender, THAT'S the play that I think earned him playing time. If he can build on that and make more plays like that, no way he's not starting and a focus of the offense.

With a healthy Felix and Barber though, I dont know how much of a staple Choice can be.

Both are too good of players to take off the field for Choice for more than 4 or 5 plays per game, but we'll see.

...i only say this about Choice because he appears to be more durable than both Barber and Jones...some players, like Emmitt was, just seem to bounce like rubber balls and avoid serious injury...Jones has seemed particularly brittle since arriving last year...Choice could become too productive to not play...the good thing in all this is that both Choice and Austin appear to be selfless players with a refreshing team attitude...you like to see that in players...

 

[Randy White]

Choice reminds me alot of Emmitt. His running style, his unspectacular yet subtle nack for making defenders miss him. His toughness running between the tackles AND natural leadership.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Choice reminds me alot of Emmitt. His running style, his unspectacular yet subtle nack for making defenders miss him. His toughness running between the tackles AND natural leadership.

His style of running is alot like Emmit's. His desire to succeed is alot like Emmitt's. His ability to pick up blitzes, andhis overall running-skill/ability...welll...

 

[jacks1]

..that said, Dallas has'nt run as many 3WR sets this year...maybe that changes if Austin continues to rise...

I'm all in favor of it. For all the hoopla the 2 TE set got during the pre-season, it's looked like garbage in the passing game so far.

 

[kramskoi]

is the perfect example of the difference between football followers, and football critics wannabes.

Here are Michael Irvin and Nate Newton, two ex-pro bowl football players explaining what the situation is and how things should be done. Mainly Michael. I found that his ( and Nate's too ) explanation was clear, precise and made football sense. I highly recommend everybody in this forum to listen to it so next time somebody feels the need to slam a player, at least have a background on that criticism.

Then you have the MEDIOT in the background parroting the same thing " well Roy makes 45 million dollars so he has to get the ball and so far Miles Austin has burned him. If he's going to make 45 million dollars he's supposed to be doing what Austin has done ".

What the hell ???

First of all, Terell Owens, Jason Garrett, and Tony Romo were KILLED in the media because of that EXACT thinking. T.O. makes the money, he's the #1 receiver, therefor he has to get the ball no matter what, even if it's forced.

Then when the ball is forced and nothing good happens: " This guys are idiots. Why are Tony Romo and Jason Garrett forcing the ball to a WR who's covered ? T.O. is a selfish mofo because he's screaming for the ball all the time ".


Miles Austin had a break out game. I hope he continues to have breakout games for the rest of the year. But I'll tell you this: he wouldn't have had a breakout game IF the Cowboys were trying to force the ball to Jason Witten, who was the best receiver on that field last week and was the highest paid receiver on that field too.

MEDIOTS like that fool Kevin Kiley ? I think that's his name, are who help shape the wrong perception on how things are in Dallas and/or how they should be. He has a mic, he has a listening audience, so whatever CRAP he says on the air, it must be true ( to that audience ) because, of course, somebody on a radio show wouldn't lie and are presumed to know what they're talking about.

Michael Irvin hit it right on the nose: Line up Roy at Z, line up Miles at X. Have Miles clear out the defense by doing what he does best which is run, while Roy comes underneath cleaning up the field. Then, like Nate points out, have Crayton do what he does best, which is line up on the slot and go get the intermediate 1st downs.

Nate said that everybody in the NFL has his own game. The Cowboys receivers have their own game: Roy is the physical, possesion type, Miles is the deep threat, Crayton is the slot guy. Plus you have one of the best TEs in football and a very talented 2nd guy. Put them out there and let them do what they do best by adjusting the offense to their strength.

But when you have morons like Kiley in the background, who was shut down several times by Michael and Nate, screaming" Roy has to do this because he makes 45 millions, Roy hasn't gone over the middle ( when it's OBVIOUS he has several times ) " that does nothing but feed into a perception that completely full of crap.

...yeah, that guy just would'nt shut up about the millions being paid Williams...with all of Austin's past inconsistency he surely seems to have jumped on a bandwagon that's set to have the wheels snap off...

...pitiful part is, i work with a guy like that and sometimes i just want to tell mr. know it all to just shut the #### up!

...they are heaping some unrealistic expectations on Austin imo...a small consensus/knee jerk opinion that suddenly Austin is better than Roy is beginning to take hold in a negative way...the solution to offensive woes is rarely that simple...look at Arizona vs. Indy a few weeks ago...even with the great Fitzgerald and Boldin they got stomped...there is no magic bullet that suddenly turns an offense into the Vikings circa 1998...it takes 11 men executing in unison on a consistent basis...

...i think Miles and Williams are interchangeable at X, Z and Y...and they need to be, it only gives the offense greater variability and effectiveness...

 

[adbutcher]

is the perfect example of the difference between football followers, and football critics wannabes.

Here are Michael Irvin and Nate Newton, two ex-pro bowl football players explaining what the situation is and how things should be done. Mainly Michael. I found that his ( and Nate's too ) explanation was clear, precise and made football sense. I highly recommend everybody in this forum to listen to it so next time somebody feels the need to slam a player, at least have a background on that criticism.

Then you have the MEDIOT in the background parroting the same thing " well Roy makes 45 million dollars so he has to get the ball and so far Miles Austin has burned him. If he's going to make 45 million dollars he's supposed to be doing what Austin has done ".

What the hell ???

First of all, Terell Owens, Jason Garrett, and Tony Romo were KILLED in the media because of that EXACT thinking. T.O. makes the money, he's the #1 receiver, therefor he has to get the ball no matter what, even if it's forced.

Then when the ball is forced and nothing good happens: " This guys are idiots. Why are Tony Romo and Jason Garrett forcing the ball to a WR who's covered ? T.O. is a selfish mofo because he's screaming for the ball all the time ".


Miles Austin had a break out game. I hope he continues to have breakout games for the rest of the year. But I'll tell you this: he wouldn't have had a breakout game IF the Cowboys were trying to force the ball to Jason Witten, who was the best receiver on that field last week and was the highest paid receiver on that field too.

MEDIOTS like that fool Kevin Kiley ? I think that's his name, are who help shape the wrong perception on how things are in Dallas and/or how they should be. He has a mic, he has a listening audience, so whatever CRAP he says on the air, it must be true ( to that audience ) because, of course, somebody on a radio show wouldn't lie and are presumed to know what they're talking about.

Michael Irvin hit it right on the nose: Line up Roy at Z, line up Miles at X. Have Miles clear out the defense by doing what he does best which is run, while Roy comes underneath cleaning up the field. Then, like Nate points out, have Crayton do what he does best, which is line up on the slot and go get the intermediate 1st downs.

Nate said that everybody in the NFL has his own game. The Cowboys receivers have their own game: Roy is the physical, possesion type, Miles is the deep threat, Crayton is the slot guy. Plus you have one of the best TEs in football and a very talented 2nd guy. Put them out there and let them do what they do best by adjusting the offense to their strength.

But when you have morons like Kiley in the background, who was shut down several times by Michael and Nate, screaming" Roy has to do this because he makes 45 millions, Roy hasn't gone over the middle ( when it's OBVIOUS he has several times ) " that does nothing but feed into a perception that completely full of crap.

Perfectly stated. The mediot sounded like an absolute fool and unfortunately a lot of his foolishness has spread to our harmonious forum , it is almost like a football iq draining virus. Be on the look out because it is highly contagious.

 

[DallasEast]

is the perfect example of the difference between football followers, and football critics wannabes.

Here are Michael Irvin and Nate Newton, two ex-pro bowl football players explaining what the situation is and how things should be done. Mainly Michael. I found that his ( and Nate's too ) explanation was clear, precise and made football sense. I highly recommend everybody in this forum to listen to it so next time somebody feels the need to slam a player, at least have a background on that criticism.

Then you have the MEDIOT in the background parroting the same thing " well Roy makes 45 million dollars so he has to get the ball and so far Miles Austin has burned him. If he's going to make 45 million dollars he's supposed to be doing what Austin has done ".

What the hell ???

First of all, Terell Owens, Jason Garrett, and Tony Romo were KILLED in the media because of that EXACT thinking. T.O. makes the money, he's the #1 receiver, therefor he has to get the ball no matter what, even if it's forced.

Then when the ball is forced and nothing good happens: " This guys are idiots. Why are Tony Romo and Jason Garrett forcing the ball to a WR who's covered ? T.O. is a selfish mofo because he's screaming for the ball all the time ".


Miles Austin had a break out game. I hope he continues to have breakout games for the rest of the year. But I'll tell you this: he wouldn't have had a breakout game IF the Cowboys were trying to force the ball to Jason Witten, who was the best receiver on that field last week and was the highest paid receiver on that field too.

MEDIOTS like that fool Kevin Kiley ? I think that's his name, are who help shape the wrong perception on how things are in Dallas and/or how they should be. He has a mic, he has a listening audience, so whatever CRAP he says on the air, it must be true ( to that audience ) because, of course, somebody on a radio show wouldn't lie and are presumed to know what they're talking about.

Michael Irvin hit it right on the nose: Line up Roy at Z, line up Miles at X. Have Miles clear out the defense by doing what he does best which is run, while Roy comes underneath cleaning up the field. Then, like Nate points out, have Crayton do what he does best, which is line up on the slot and go get the intermediate 1st downs.

Nate said that everybody in the NFL has his own game. The Cowboys receivers have their own game: Roy is the physical, possesion type, Miles is the deep threat, Crayton is the slot guy. Plus you have one of the best TEs in football and a very talented 2nd guy. Put them out there and let them do what they do best by adjusting the offense to their strength.

But when you have morons like Kiley in the background, who was shut down several times by Michael and Nate, screaming" Roy has to do this because he makes 45 millions, Roy hasn't gone over the middle ( when it's OBVIOUS he has several times ) " that does nothing but feed into a perception that completely full of crap.

Superb post. There is only one thing that I do not see happening based on the offensive scheme which Garrett has implemented through the first five games. I doubt that we'll see Crayton in the slot very much if we do not deviate very much from having Witten and Bennett/Phillips on the field in addition to Roy Williams and Miles Austin lining up out wide. If they pull Cricket off the field, sure; but if the fullback is involved in the play, no.

 

[casmith07]

GREAT listen...I think I'll start listening to this show some more, except for that humongous troglodyte humonculous in Kevin Kiley or whatever. He's absolutely an idiot.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I listen to this show as often as I can. Irvin and Nate really get into some real nuts and bolts stuff sometimes and it is a great listen when they do.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I listen to this show as often as I can. Irvin and Nate really get into some real nuts and bolts stuff sometimes and it is a great listen when they do.

If you contrast that to the opinion pieces you get from the local media (e.g. like JJT saying TNew and Romo are not stars - IDIOT! ), you actually get some TRUE football facts, knowledsge opinion and useful persepctive when listening to the Playmaker and Big-Nate. It's refreshing actually.

What was specifically nice in this piece is how they silenced Werder pretty emphatically by countering what he said with actual football facts and saying "well he (Werder) must have tlaked to someone internally which is where he got that", basically exposing the fact that Werder just regurgitates anything anyone will tell him - right or wrong - and pass it off as his own.

 

[Doomsday]

What Irvin said in the beginning resinates with me and I believe is the biggest issue with Wade Gump. Players are not competing for jobs, there is a pecking order on this team. RW11 is the #1 WR and Crayton is the #2. Why? Why is Crayton starting over Miles Austin, it has been clear for a while now that Austin has the skills an brings things to the table he doesnt?

We saw the same thing last year with Anthony Henry, it was clear he was the 3rd or 4th best corner on the team yet he was still trotted out there as the starter week in and week out.

Enough of this crap, you have to have competition on the football team. There are way too many guys like Hamlin out there stinking up the field week in and week out. They are too complacent in my opinion.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Kiley actually knows the game... He was at least in an NFL camp and was a good LB in college. He's just a tool on the radio to generate discussion, I think.

Werder, on the other hand, is a moron who proved here that he doesn't understand the game at all. I have no doubt that what he said here isn't at all what Jason or whoever told him. He simply got confused... And then of course ran with it like it's fact.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Kiley actually knows the game... He was at least in an NFL camp and was a good LB in college. He's just a tool on the radio to generate discussion, I think.

Werder, on the other hand, is a moron who proved here that he doesn't understand the game at all. I have no doubt that what he said here isn't at all what Jason or whoever told him. He simply got confused... And then of course ran with it like it's fact.

Didn't he play at Maryland University? I think he was also in the World League for a few years.

 

[Randy White]

His style of running is alot like Emmit's. His desire to succeed is alot like Emmitt's. His ability to pick up blitzes, andhis overall running-skill/ability...welll...

You know ? I"m going to pay attention to that more closely next week. That could be THE reason why he's not seing the field more. Of course, having the Barbarian and Jones is not exactly a bad excuse, but I was a little intrigued as to why he didn't see the field more often against Denger.