Audio: Todd Archer talks Romo on KTBB - 1/22/09

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yep. And for all the belly aching over Werder "LYING!!!", I've yet to see any proof that suggests he was.

Even Owens essentially relented in that Stephen A. Smith interview, saying maybe Werder didn't lie but that he was pissed not to know who the source was and why they'd be talking.

Don't blame Werder and the likes for this team's woes. Blame the girly, gossipy players for constantly feeding him stories.

I guess Witten, Romo and Owens all denying the reports immediately after they surfaced isn't evidence?

I guess Romo and Owens both saying many times that they have no beef is not proof?

Just because Owens said that he believes someone may have told WEreder is not an admission that is true. All it means is that he thinks sometold TOLD Werder that.

A bunch of maroons are asking for an apology but the two are not mutually exclusive.

And who is to say it is one of the players. It could be Galloway for all we know. I guess thats the joy of an unidentified source. You can just make up whoever you want.

 

[RainMan]

His job is to report the truth and verify what his sources say. A general rule of thumb is that you don't publish rumors unless you have multiple sources all saying the same thing. he did none of that.

thats the whole issue. werder is not new to this and it is completely irresponsible of him to report things based on a uncorroborated report.

it doesn't matter if werder is making it up of his source is. you can sit here and call people dumb. the only stupid thing i see going on here is blind faith that everything reported is true.

The problem, though, is that sources can be biased or only know a portion of the truth. This isn't unique to Werder's reporting -- it's part of sources of every story.

Let's say Werder's source was Witten. Maybe Witten heard from a wide receiver friend on the team that Owens was jealous of his relationship with Romo and felt like he was being frozen out of the offense. Witten then passed along that info to Werder. But maybe the wide receiver who fed Witten the info was wrong.

The question then becomes this: Is it a story that Jason Witten believes Owens is jealous of him, even if Witten's reasoning for believing so is bad? Is it Werder's responsibility to delve into the inner psyche of every player, or just report what's being said in that locker room? Besides, for stories like these Werder will rarely get an on-the-record confirmation from Owens' side. So what then, do you not run the story because Owens says it's not true? Hell, the accused (as Owens is in this story) rarely admit anything to the press.

Just my thoughts on it all. You say Werder shouldn't report "uncorroborated" reports. But so many stories on ESPN break in that form or fashion. From stories surrounding Favre (a source says he is retiring...) to free-agent signings (a source says ___ will sign with the Cowboys tomorrow) to gossipy stuff like this stuff with the Cowboys. And I know they didn't report that one Favre story because they only had one source, but you see stories all the time from them citing just one source. I'm not sure that their across-the-board policy is to have multiple sources, is it?

 

[RainMan]

I guess Witten, Romo and Owens all denying the reports immediately after they surfaced isn't evidence?

I guess Romo and Owens both saying many times that they have no beef is not proof?

Just because Owens said that he believes someone may have told WEreder is not an admission that is true. All it means is that he thinks sometold TOLD Werder that.

A bunch of maroons are asking for an apology but the two are not mutually exclusive.

And who is to say it is one of the players. It could be Galloway for all we know. I guess thats the joy of an unidentified source. You can just make up whoever you want.

First off, if Werder were using other journalists as his source and this were ever discovered, he'd be run out of the profession.

Secondly, do you truly believe we're supposed to take everything the players say on the record at complete face value? That strikes me as a little naive.

Not to mention that from what I recall from that whole mess, their stories differed from time to time. Romo and others said several times "No matter what might have happened..." Ratliff and others confirmed, didn't they (?), that something happened. And Owens went from calling Werder a liar to backing off that claim and just trying to find out who the source was.

The accused often deny stories. While an extreme example, are we to believe an accused murderer that he's innocent simply because he says so? Even if the bloody knife found in his hand, his semen in the dead body, etc. suggesting otherwise?

There was plenty of evidence surrounding this whole charade in Dallas to suggest Werder was closer to being right with his story than he was to being wrong. Multiple papers reported there was a fight, and as I said, I seem to recall several players hinting, if not flatly confirming, there was an altercation of some kind.

But, and not to be rude, it's clear you'll choose to believe whatever you want. I don't think there's anything I can post that will change your beliefs.

Hopefully things are as hunky dory as you suggest.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The problem, though, is that sources can be biased or only know a portion of the truth. This isn't unique to Werder's reporting -- it's part of sources of every story.

Let's say Werder's source was Witten. Maybe Witten heard from a wide receiver friend on the team that Owens was jealous of his relationship with Romo and felt like he was being frozen out of the offense. Witten then passed along that info to Werder. But maybe the wide receiver who fed Witten the info was wrong.

The question then becomes this: Is it a story that Jason Witten believes Owens is jealous of him, even if Witten's reasoning for believing so is bad? Is it Werder's responsibility to delve into the inner psyche of every player, or just report what's being said in that locker room? Besides, for stories like these Werder will rarely get an on-the-record confirmation from Owens' side. So what then, do you not run the story because Owens says it's not true? Hell, the accused (as Owens is in this story) rarely admit anything to the press.

Just my thoughts on it all. You say Werder shouldn't report "uncorroborated" reports. But so many stories on ESPN break in that form or fashion. From stories surrounding Favre (a source says he is retiring...) to free-agent signings (a source says ___ will sign with the Cowboys tomorrow) to gossipy stuff like this stuff with the Cowboys. And I know they didn't report that one Favre story because they only had one source, but you see stories all the time from them citing just one source. I'm not sure that their across-the-board policy is to have multiple sources, is it?

You see a lot of stories like that in sports. If a business reporter writes a report that GM isn't being agreeable with the other car manufacturers and is going to lose out on bailout money and stocks drop, then he is going ot be sued for libel and blackballed.

Thats why you don't just take one persons word for it. But in sports journalism, there is no such accountability so just hide behind your no name source and your editor will love it all day long.

 

[RainMan]

Oh he understands it, but just like cops they back one another. It doesn't bode well to have one of their fraternity exposed. As it brings the rest of them further scrutiny.

Its kind of like JJT backing Watkins and then acting like Dalrymple was the only one giving contrary reports.

BTW does anyone know offhand who the respective sports editors for the DMN and FWST because when push comes to shove it is really those guys that need to be held accountable. Its their job to make sure stories are verified and the like.

Here's my question for you, Fuzzy.

Why are we to believe this current group of Dallas Cowboys players have more credibility than the media? Why is it the media that is the crooked cops, and not the players? Other than the fact that in the world of some, the Cowboys are the good guys and the media are the band of evil doers trying to bring them down.

Please answer me that question.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

First off, if Werder were using other journalists as his source and this were ever discovered, he'd be run out of the profession.

Secondly, do you truly believe we're supposed to take everything the players say on the record at complete face value? That strikes me as a little naive.

Not to mention that from what I recall from that whole mess, their stories differed from time to time. Romo and others said several times "No matter what might have happened..." Ratliff and others confirmed, didn't they (?), that something happened. And Owens went from calling Werder a liar to backing off that claim and just trying to find out who the source was.

The accused often deny stories. While an extreme example, are we to believe an accused murderer that he's innocent simply because he says so? Even if the bloody knife found in his hand, his semen in the dead body, etc. suggesting otherwise?

There was plenty of evidence surrounding this whole charade in Dallas to suggest Werder was closer to being right with his story than he was to being wrong. Multiple papers reported there was a fight, and as I said, I seem to recall several players hinting, if not flatly confirming, there was an altercation of some kind.

But, and not to be rude, it's clear you'll choose to believe whatever you want. I don't think there's anything I can post that will change your beliefs.

Hopefully things are as hunky dory as you suggest.

Whoever said I believe anything? I don't know amything beyond I don't buy what Werder is selling. That does not mean that everything is milk and sunshine.

Also if someone says something thats not true about you and you know it not to be true of course your going to call the reporter a liar. All it sounds like to me is that internally they have figured out at the very least that there is a snitch and perhaps who that snitch is.

What I do believe is that Owens as well as all of the other WR went to Garrett to complain about the offense. The people involved have admitted taht and it has been verified from several different places. Anything more than that I feel is just sensationalism and I will maintain that until I at the very least know who is making these claims.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here's my question for you, Fuzzy.

Why are we to believe this current group of Dallas Cowboys players have more credibility than the media? Why is it the media that is the crooked cops, and not the players? Other than the fact that in the world of some, the Cowboys are the good guys and the media are the band of evil doers trying to bring them down.

Please answer me that question.

Your missing the point. Its called the burden of proof. What we have here is a case of he said, she said. What makes it even more questionable is that Werder isn't even saying that he knew this, he is saying that someone told him that and he won't tell us who that person is.

Given that I am going to side with the accused because at the end of the day Werder cannot even back his claimin any way shape or form.

And its not like I think Owens is this nice person. He went on national television and threw Garrett under the bus.

I just see entirely too many stories coming out of Dallas lately that are obvious mistruths or at least half truths. JJT and Watkins come to mind. I also know how sports journalism works. Get one thing very clear: they are not about journalistic integrity. they are about selling their show or column or blog or whatever they do. Thats it.

You just have to look at what happened with JFE to understand that. She went from being one of the best beat reporters to what she is now: a gossip queen. Why? Because its better for business. DC spends all day recording it and eating up every bit of it.

 

[dcfanatic]

His job is to report the truth and verify what his sources say. A general rule of thumb is that you don't publish rumors unless you have multiple sources all saying the same thing. he did none of that.

thats the whole issue. werder is not new to this and it is completely irresponsible of him to report things based on a uncorroborated report.

it doesn't matter if werder is making it up of his source is. you can sit here and call people dumb. the only stupid thing i see going on here is blind faith that everything reported is true.

Werder did have multiple sources. He did have others from ESPN verify his reporting...

Werder on Irvin

He even had SAS say he was off the hook after he sat down with Terrell Owens...

SAS on GAC

He even had Terrell Owens saying the accusations were made to him which in effect was him backing off his original idea that Werder was a liar and making stuff up...

[youtube]QLi0D0dPpQc[/youtube]

So what else did you want Werder to do?

Bug Valley Ranch?

So for you to read an article there would basically have to be audio/visual proof of anything and everything being reported for you to believe it?

Ask yourself if that's realistic.

Better yet. Ask yourself how silly it sounds that you are creating parameters that are unattainable. In your world there would be no articles at all.

Just audio and video interviews because no one could ever trust anyone that they weren't lying.

Ex. How do we know Archer spoke to Romo? I didn't hear the audio of it. Maybe he's making it up. lol.

As for blind faith in believing 'everything' the media reports.

Two months ago these arguments about the media going a little nutty and being way off base on some of this stuff would have stood up.

But now...

After hearing from some of the players and the head coach talk about all the problems this team had you are still in denial and trying to place blame on some reporters for the downfall of this team?

That's worse than blind faith.

It's called not being anything but a homer who thinks his team is always right in everything they do and it's everyone elses fault all the time.

I will never think that way.

It's all yours Fuzzy.

 

[dcfanatic]

Your missing the point. Its called the burden of proof. What we have here is a case of he said, she said. What makes it even more questionable is that Werder isn't even saying that he knew this, he is saying that someone told him that and he won't tell us who that person is.

Given that I am going to side with the accused because at the end of the day Werder cannot even back his claimin any way shape or form.

And its not like I think Owens is this nice person. He went on national television and threw Garrett under the bus.

I just see entirely too many stories coming out of Dallas lately that are obvious mistruths or at least half truths. JJT and Watkins come to mind. I also know how sports journalism works. Get one thing very clear: they are not about journalistic integrity. they are about selling their show or column or blog or whatever they do. Thats it.

You just have to look at what happened with JFE to understand that. She went from being one of the best beat reporters to what she is now: a gossip queen. Why? Because its better for business. DC spends all day recording it and eating up every bit of it.

It's called gathering info.

If Werder was reporting that Terrell Owens and Tony Romo were going camping this weekend and that they were best buds again you would be eating it up and you know it.

You just want to hear stuff that you like to hear. Stuff that doesn't make the team look as bad it really is right now.

This Werder is the devil thing is so pathetic. If they didn't give him the BS he wouldn't have anything to report.

As if Werder actually needs to make **** up to have his stories running on Sportscenter when it begins.

We have a WR saying the OC stinks, we have a HC who can't talk because the PR dept shut him down, we have an owner who brings in Hard Knocks cameras, we have a star QB telling the world it's no big deal to get trashed in Philly to close out the most disappointing season in team history, we got a CB who say the coaches aren't accountable, we have a DT who got a second chance from us when no one else would give him one saying he can't wait to get out of Dallas and we got a Pacman ****ing Jones as the cherry on top.

But Ed Werder has to go around making **** up, lol.

 

[Mansta54]

Is there a club around here or something that I don't know about where some members get together and talk about me?

How about just sticking to the topic on hand.

The Dallas Cowboys.

Even tho you think you are, you're really not that important. It's just that folks see right through your BS, you post it enough.. Get together and waste time talking about you!! Yeah, ok!!!:laugh2:

 

[dcfanatic]

Even tho you think you are, you're really not that important. It's just that folks see right through your BS, you post it enough.. Get together and waste time talking about you!! Yeah, ok!!!:laugh2:

You just wasted your time answering a rhetorical question.

You did know it was rhetorical right?

Oh man. I'm sorry.

I forgot you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.

It was rhetorical, but thanks for taking the time to answer anyways.

 

[5Countem5]

Ed Werder heard about a meeting between the wr's and Garrett and ran with the story, filling in what he needed and sensationalizing where he could.

That's why he got so much so wrong. He's a hack trying to get back at TO for all the "Next Question"s ...

 

[STSINAZ]

Do he know he's the biggest joke on here these days?

Anyone? Anyone?

he always has been! glad people are finally pointing it out!

 

[Doomsday101]

Ed Werder heard about a meeting between the wr's and Garrett and ran with the story, filling in what he needed and sensationalizing where he could.

That's why he got so much so wrong. He's a hack trying to get back at TO for all the "Next Question"s ...

It is because like many he reads between the lines instead of reporting the facts on the ground.

 

[Mansta54]

Remember when that kid told us a story about meeting Roy Williams.

And I questioned why others weren't upset with Roy's comments.

Others did too.

Then dcfanatic came and said we had an agenda.

Good stuff.

 

[jobberone]

& the beat goes onnnnnnn.... :fogeys: :banjo: :fogeys:

You can say and believe what you want but Archer has tons of integrity and gets it right most often. When he speaks I listen.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So Werder listening to his sources and writing an article is wrong?

Maybe it's his job.

He isn't a fan. He's a reporter. His job is to write/report something that generates interest so people want to read/view it.

Nooooooo.

His job is to report the news FACTUALLY and by upholding journalistic standards. By your standards he would be a tabloid reporter. They write stuff that generates interest, but is often not true.

Getting ONE source reporting a rumor that has never really come close to being true is not FACTUAL reporting and not using the journalist standards of getting at least 3 sources when reporting a rumor.

Again, if Mr. Blue Suit didn't have a great propensity to keep being dead wrong on his stories, I'd give him some leeway. But after awhile I wonder whether or not he made it up or he at least knew the source probably was lying or didn't know what he was talking about, but decided to publish it anyway.

It's not that hard to understand.

For some people, it is.

The problem people have with him should be with the team instead. They are giving him ammo to report on.

They are the sources.

Not always. As Mr. Blue Suit stated, his anonymous source was 'somebody who regularly speaks to Owens' teammates.' Knowing Mr. Blue Suit and reading his articles and listening to his reports in the past, if the source was a player, he had no problem saying the source was 'a player in the Cowboys organization' or 'a player in the Cowboys locker room.'

It wasn't a player. He would have said as such.

But the rest of the media is claiming it is because Owens thinks it is a player. Owens doesn't really know if it is or not (and judging by how Mr. Blue Suit phrased it, it's likely not a player), but for some reason the media now believe Owens when he says he *thinks* it's a player.

Same ole crap from the media.

They are the ones with a big mouth WR who sits down with their reporters

You mean Owens who refused to answer any of Mr. Blue Suit's questions for at least a month before the Mr. Blue Suit article came out?

Or how about the Owens that refused to talk to the media before the 2007 season and the media's response was 'well, he's not talking to us TO GET attention.'

Yes, the organization has some problems. Mainly we have an owner who likes the spotlight and drama and likes to put his team in the spotlight and the drama a bit too much. And I'm a Jerry Jones fan. But, the team must realize that no matter what they do, the media...particularly the local Dallas media and ESPN are always going to try and find ways to stir the pot and make up some negativity. So they had better get used to limiting the questions they answer and just ignoring what the media says because it's probably untrue or completely overblown.

They are the ones who make it so damn easy for ESPN to make them look foolish around every corner.

Cris Carter stated that they should put a bullet in Owens' head. Mr. Blue Suit reported that Keith Davis was dead a couple of years ago. Mr. Blue Suit reported that Parcells was going to retire after '03, then '04, then '05. Merril Hoge said the Cowboys will be better with Brad Johnson than Tony Romo.

BSP...err, I mean ESPN ain't making anybody look foolish anytime soon. Sledgehammer meets glass house.

Half the fan base says they are boycotting ESPN because Terrell Owens is crying that Werder is lying and then less than a week later he's on ESPN doing an interview and the same people have to go to ESPN to watch the interview because they want to see him say that he now doesn't think Werder is lying but that the people who were his sources were lying.

Yes, but if Mr. Blue Suit knew his sources were lying and reported that anyway, that makes him a liar in my eyes and the eyes of many others. You seem to excuse that as being okay and 'doing his job.' His job is to report things factually. Even if he didn't know they were lying and the story is not true, then HE DID NOT DO HIS JOB.





YAKUZA

 

[jobberone]

Compare Werder and Archer. That's says a lot. I've seen Archer be wrong but over nothing important. And he doesn't throw idle gossip around or sell himself. He's a reporter. Werder is a columnist/gossip *****.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Yep. And for all the belly aching over Werder "LYING!!!", I've yet to see any proof that suggests he was.

Some facts for you:

Mr. Blue Suit has been dead wrong on the Cowboys stories on countless occasions.

He reported Parcells was retiring in '03, then '04, then '05....all from anonymous sources.

He reported that Keith Davis was dead in '06 after being shot. All from an anonymous source.

He reported that Owens tried to commit suicide in '06 after the accidental drug overdose. All from an anonymous source.

He reported that Owens was crying after the Bengals game this season because 'he didn't get the ball enough.' It was later reported that Owens had a close family member die earlier that week and that was why he was emotional after the Bengals game in which Dallas WON and Owens scored a big TD.

These are just a FEW of the things Mr. Blue Suit reported on.

For OVER A MONTH before the story ran, Owens refused to answer Mr. Blue Suit's questions, saying 'next question' every single time Mr. Blue Suit asked him something.

Again, all of this is FACTS.

If I were on a jury and looked at this and had to determine whether or not Mr. Blue Suit fabricated the story, I may not convict him but it's pretty darn close. There's a lot of evidence here AND there's a motive for making up a story like that.

Furthermore, I believe that this is better proof that Mr. Blue Suit was lying or had a source he knew was lying than proof that Mr. Blue Suit's story on Owens' jealousy was accurate.

Lastly, and I repeat this roughly a million times. He only got ONE source. You should have at least 3 sources when reporting rumors. It's a journalist standard that I find funny now these reporters, including Mr. Blue Suit himself, are now reporting in their stories how many sources they had as I've pointed this out to them in e-mails.

Even Owens essentially relented in that Stephen A. Smith interview, saying maybe Werder didn't lie but that he was pissed not to know who the source was and why they'd be talking.

Owens is hardly an investigator and I really don't think he has the time to go out and investigate who did this. In the past, every time Mr. Blue Suit got a Cowboys player as a source he would state that the source 'was a player in the Cowboys organization' or 'was a member of the Cowboys organization' or 'was a player in the Cowboys locker room.'

And for good reason. It makes the story much more credible and juicy for the reader/viewer. Yet this time around it was 'a source who regularly speaks to Owens' teammates.'

That doesn't really sound like the most concrete source ever, not to mention it was only ONE source.

Don't blame Werder and the likes for this team's woes. Blame the girly, gossipy players for constantly feeding him stories.

I don't blame Mr. Blue Suit for the teams woes, but I do blame him for shoddy, hack journalism.

If anything, it's an insult to any reader or viewer...not just Terrell Owens.





YAKUZA

 

[5Countem5]

Some facts for you:

Mr. Blue Suit has been dead wrong on the Cowboys stories on countless occasions.

He reported Parcells was retiring in '03, then '04, then '05....all from anonymous sources.

He reported that Keith Davis was dead in '06 after being shot. All from an anonymous source.

He reported that Owens tried to commit suicide in '06 after the accidental drug overdose. All from an anonymous source.

He reported that Owens was crying after the Bengals game this season because 'he didn't get the ball enough.' It was later reported that Owens had a close family member die earlier that week and that was why he was emotional after the Bengals game in which Dallas WON and Owens scored a big TD.

These are just a FEW of the things Mr. Blue Suit reported on.

For OVER A MONTH before the story ran, Owens refused to answer Mr. Blue Suit's questions, saying 'next question' every single time Mr. Blue Suit asked him something.

Again, all of this is FACTS.

If I were on a jury and looked at this and had to determine whether or not Mr. Blue Suit fabricated the story, I may not convict him but it's pretty darn close. There's a lot of evidence here AND there's a motive for making up a story like that.

Furthermore, I believe that this is better proof that Mr. Blue Suit was lying or had a source he knew was lying than proof that Mr. Blue Suit's story on Owens' jealousy was accurate.

Lastly, and I repeat this roughly a million times. He only got ONE source. You should have at least 3 sources when reporting rumors. It's a journalist standard that I find funny now these reporters, including Mr. Blue Suit himself, are now reporting in their stories how many sources they had as I've pointed this out to them in e-mails.



Owens is hardly an investigator and I really don't think he has the time to go out and investigate who did this. In the past, every time Mr. Blue Suit got a Cowboys player as a source he would state that the source 'was a player in the Cowboys organization' or 'was a member of the Cowboys organization' or 'was a player in the Cowboys locker room.'

And for good reason. It makes the story much more credible and juicy for the reader/viewer. Yet this time around it was 'a source who regularly speaks to Owens' teammates.'

That doesn't really sound like the most concrete source ever, not to mention it was only ONE source.



I don't blame Mr. Blue Suit for the teams woes, but I do blame him for shoddy, hack journalism.

If anything, it's an insult to any reader or viewer...not just Terrell Owens.





YAKUZA

Save it Yakuza, Werder says what they want to hear so they worship at the ESPN altar, praying that the TO-infidels will realize his evil.

Until then, the jihad continues.