AZ fans worried about Fitz

[mr.jameswoods]

He's no good- Mr.Jameswood has seen him in play person........ .

You're right Sarge. What was I thinking. You do live in Syracuse, NY and watch plenty of Sports Center clips. My having season tickets and watching him play in person means very little in this debate. Are you sure you were not on the debate team?

 

[DaBoyz73]

In order to "stretch" a defense you need only get behind the CB once in a while. That doesn't require blazing speed at all. Michael Irvin commanded a double team and averaged more yards per catch than most of the receivers in the Hall of Fame. He was far from a guy who got great separation. The same applies to Jerry Rice, Andre Reed and Cris Carter.

I watch a great deal of Fitz and watched him in college, I think he has more "speed" than the men I mentioned in the previous paragraph. He is a stud and constantly beats one on one coverage, that's why his numbers are so inflated. He plays alongside Boldin who has been the #1 receiver in AZ and demands double teams, so if a QB follows his progressions properly he will find the person in one on one matchups. The fact that he put up the numbers he did this season tells me that you can't put him in a one on one situation too often as a defense because he will make you pay.

We all know that the knock on Boldin coming out of FSU was that he was slow. Speeding is not always the factor in playing WR. I think when a WR runs a good route it allows him to gain separation from the opposing CB.

 

[Sarge]

You're right Sarge. What was I thinking. You do live in Syracuse, NY and watch plenty of Sports Center clips. My having season tickets and watching him play in person means very little in this debate. Are you sure you were not on the debate team?

How many times are you going to say the same thing? Answer my original question posed to you that you've conveniently been ignoring.

 

[es22]

Just a couple things...

1. First by "restructure", they could simply just convert his roster bonuses to signing bonuses, and prorate the amount out over a few years. It won't cost Fitz anything and it's done all the time in the league.

2. Second, I gotta agree with mr.jameswoods on this one. Fitz is a nice player, although I'd say he's more of a Chris Carter type than a Burress. But he's definitely not a top 5 guy, and I don't know that we need another possession reciever, especially since you'd probably have to overpay to get him.

All Chris Carter did was catch TD's and be a playmaker. He is a HOF who was money.

If you dont want a player like that, then you dont know football

 

[mr.jameswoods]

The Bills? What do the Bills have to do with this?

I can watch any game I want to every and any, single weekend I want to - did that ever cross your mind genius?

So, once again...are you assuming I have never seen him play an entire game?

I'm getting it now...you actually have to live in the same state as the player plays to know anything about him or to have even seen him play right?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaa............ok.

You are a Cowboy fan living in upstate NY so I'm quite certain you watch every single Arizona Cardinals game considering you have such motivation to do so.

And you really think there is no distinction between watching someone on television vesus watching them in person? Do you really want to argue that point?

Do you really think you are making any sense? Please say no for your sake.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Arizona isn't letting Fitzgerald go anywhere... Dallas can ONLY hope he'll be on available.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

How many times are you going to say the same thing? Answer my original question posed to you that you've conveniently been ignoring.

I haven't been ignoring you. It's just that not all of us can spend all day on a chat forum.

Yes, I suppose you "could" watch every Cardinals game just like I "could" watch every Bills game. If you are going to tell me that, let's just say I'm calling your bluff aka YOU ARE LYING

 

[wileedog]

Arizona isn't letting Fitzgerald go anywhere... Dallas can ONLY hope he'll be on available.

The Cards are already paying Boldin $5.5M a season.

Again, even with a restructure, are they really willing to shell out $11+M/yr, or almost 10% of their cap space, for two WRs?

Keep in mind Wisenhunt is a fan of a power running attack - this isn't Mike Martz here. Wouldn't they rather spend the money on Olinemen and a young decent RB?

I agree its not likely they let him walk - but its no shoe in they re-sign him either.

 

[Hoofbite]

And you really think there is no distinction between watching someone on television vesus watching them in person? Do you really want to argue that point?

Theres a distinction no doubt. However, it takes someone who knows the game and is good at evaluating players to see it.

Sorry, but thats just not you.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Theres a distinction no doubt. However, it takes someone who knows the game and is good at evaluating players to see it.

Sorry, but thats just not you.

I'm sorry I'm not stating what you want to hear. I have no intent to bash Fitzgerald. I like him personally. He is a great guy. However, I'm a season ticket holder and I live in Phoenix. So I receive a lot more information regarding Fitz than fans such as yourself. If you want to pretend that you know more about Fitz than me, be my guest but the fact is you quite simply don't regardless of what you may feel. If there is another Cardinals Season ticket holder or Phoenix native that feels otherwise, I will listen to them.

 

[slick325]

Commanding a double team and beating someone deep are different issues. Irvin was a great receiver but he wasn't known to beat people deep. He did it on occassion but he was a possession receiver who made his living running slants and posts and essentially fighting people for the ball. He was a physical receiver. Rice was in the west cost offense and made most of his yards after the catch on quick outs. Cris Carter and the word deep don't belong in the same sentence. And I'm not sure Fitzgerald is necessarily faster than Rice and Irvin. The Cardinals don't have a running game and use the pass to substitute for the run which is why he has so many receptions since he is used to running short routes over the middle or in the flats.

I do watch his games and do understand the routes he runs. IMHO there is no route on the passing tree that he can't run successfully. I think Fitzgerald runs what is asked of him and in Garrett's system he can be schemed open deep like Irvin was when Norv was calling plays (hence his career 15.9 yd/catch avg.) By the way, Irvin's career average is similar to Randy Moss who is at 15.8 yds/catch.

As I stated before, if you leave Fitzgerald one on one he can beat you deep. Speed is not the only thing that allows a WR to get behind coverage. Look at Plaxico Burress his whole career. It depends on the route combinations and what plays have been called to set up the CB but he can beat a player deep. He hasn't been asked to do it in AZ but his 13.8yds./catch is nothing to sneeze at especially if he had T.O. lined up opposite and Witten roaming the middle of the field.

Quicks and precise route running is what I look for in a WR and Fitz has both naturally. Of course he can work on more but he is only 23-24yrs old and has time to continue to further develop.

 

[Hoofbite]

I'm sorry I'm not stating what you want to hear. I have no intent to bash Fitzgerald. I like him personally. He is a great guy. However, I'm a season ticket holder and I live in Phoenix. So I receive a lot more information regarding Fitz than fans such as yourself. If you want to pretend that you know more about Fitz than me, be my guest but the fact is you quite simply don't regardless of what you may feel. If there is another Cardinals Season ticket holder or Phoenix native that feels otherwise, I will listen to them.

In a time where your cable provider can give you every game of every week and then you can later download full games from torrent sites, living in phoenix doesn't hold the weight that you think it does.

And like I said, being in attendance only matters if you are good evaluator of talent.

 

[jcblanco22]

If it came down to it and we had the opportunity to land either, who would you rather have, Fitzgerald or Roy Williams from Detroit? Don't think we'd go wrong with either.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

In a time where your cable provider can give you every game of every week and then you can later download full games from torrent sites, living in phoenix doesn't hold the weight that you think it does.

And like I said, being in attendance only matters if you are good evaluator of talent.

Your cable provider can't provide every NFL game. That is only available through Direct TV so we have to assume you have that or go to a sports bar every Sunday; we also have to assume that particular sports bar offers every Cardinals game which in upstate NY is not going to be easy considering they will play local games first. Then you are ignoring other aspects like local news, local sports talk radio, and the local newspaper. Yes, I'm assuming if you are a devoted Cardinals fan with a lot of money and time, you could devote the same attention to the team as one living in Phoenix but I doubt that describes Sarge or you.

And in regarding "good evaluation of talent", that is entirely subjective. I could just as easily say you are a horrible evaluator of talent and it wouldn't mean anything. What isn't subjective is the fact that I'm sitting in the 4th row on Sunday watching Larry live while you aren't.

Again, I like Larry Fitzgerald but I would prefer other receivers to complement Owens. Fitzgerald is a possession receiver who relies on his leaping ability, size and route running. He doen't have the speed to stretch a defense or get a secondary to respect his deep capability. I would rather have a worse overall receiver who has speed and can stretch a defense. I think that would help our offense more than adding another possession receiver

 

[wileedog]

Again, I like Larry Fitzgerald but I would prefer other receivers to complement Owens. Fitzgerald is a possession receiver who relies on his leaping ability, size and route running. He doen't have the speed to stretch a defense or get a secondary to respect him deep capability. I would rather have a worse overall receiver who has speed and can stretch a defense.

TO is here for another two years at most. He needs to be replaced anyway at some point and Fitz is a proven commodity at a very young age. I would certainly and happily give up a 22nd overall pick to get a WR of his *proven* talents, because chances are I couldn't guarantee that by drafting one in that range (or any range).

Again, that 'worse' speed receiver is not that hard to find. Heck it could be Austin or Stanbeck who are here already. Or as I mentioned Stallworth.

 

[kmd24]

FWIW, on Aug 16, 2007, Whisenhunt said that Fitzgerald could get better separation. One of the knocks on Fitz entering the draft was that he didn't have quickness and couldn't get deep separation.

I don't watch a lot of Arizona games, though.

 

[wileedog]

FWIW, on Aug 16, 2007, Whisenhunt said that Fitzgerald could get better separation. One of the knocks on Fitz entering the draft was that he didn't have quickness and couldn't get deep separation.

I don't watch a lot of Arizona games, though.

100 catches, 1400 yards, 10 TDs with a combination of Kurt Warner and Matt Leinart throwing him the ball.

Who gives a snot about separation? That is production.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I do watch his games and do understand the routes he runs. IMHO there is no route on the passing tree that he can't run successfully. I think Fitzgerald runs what is asked of him and in Garrett's system he can be schemed open deep like Irvin was when Norv was calling plays (hence his career 15.9 yd/catch avg.) By the way, Irvin's career average is similar to Randy Moss who is at 15.8 yds/catch.

As I stated before, if you leave Fitzgerald one on one he can beat you deep. Speed is not the only thing that allows a WR to get behind coverage. Look at Plaxico Burress his whole career. It depends on the route combinations and what plays have been called to set up the CB but he can beat a player deep. He hasn't been asked to do it in AZ but his 13.8yds./catch is nothing to sneeze at especially if he had T.O. lined up opposite and Witten roaming the middle of the field.

Quicks and precise route running is what I look for in a WR and Fitz has both naturally. Of course he can work on more but he is only 23-24yrs old and has time to continue to further develop.

I knew Larry didn't have a lot of speed when he came to Arizona but I knew lacking speed alone wouldn't limit him. However, I disagree with you based on what I've seen from him. He is not Michael Irvin. He is slower than Irvin for one thing and he has trouble getting separation. He fights for nearly every ball he gets because he doesn't have the speed to get separation. I've seen both Warner and Leinart take a lot of sacks because Fitzgerald couldn't get separation when they would double Boldin on 3rd and 5. Yes, they have a bad offensive line but it's not always the offensive line. I've seen Fitzgerald make big plays but it's usually because the Cardinals are desperate and throw up junk while Fitz outleaps his defender for the ball in the final 2 minutes. I've also seen him shut down by average corners at times. The Cardinals also throw a lot of interceptions on those same plays.

You can look at his stats from several perspectives. Yes, he has a great yards per catch average but he also has only 4 games with over 100 yards receiving this season. You can say he plays alongside Boldin but Boldin didn't play in 4 games and was hurt in other games. Fitzgerald also had 8 games in which he didn't catch a TD. Also, he is 6-3 and 226 lbs so he is not exactly a light weight and advanced age only causes you to gain weight so he is going to get heavier. Again, he is a good receiver but I would prefer someone who has some speed that can complement TO

 

[Bob Sacamano]

II've seen both Warner and Leinart take a lot of sacks because Fitzgerald couldn't get separation when they would double Boldin on 3rd and 5. Yes, they have a bad offensive line but it's not always the offensive line.

alot of it is on Kurt Warner, who holds onto the ball for too long, and Leinart does too due to his inexperience

 

[mr.jameswoods]

FWIW, on Aug 16, 2007, Whisenhunt said that Fitzgerald could get better separation[/URL]. One of the knocks on Fitz entering the draft was that he didn't have quickness and couldn't get deep separation.

I don't watch a lot of Arizona games, though.

This is what I've been trying to tell people. His own coach is saying that. In Phoenix, it's well known than Fitz is slow and has trouble getting separation. We all still love him because he is a character guy and uses his size and leaping ability to make plays. Those traits are valuable but I prefer a guy who can get separation and can cause a defense to respect his deep routes