Baseball HOF voting is bogus

[StanleySpadowski]

The inductees are released today.

I have a serious problem with the holier than-thou-voters ommitting McGwire from their ballots. Most cite steriod use for keeping him off. My question is how do they know who used, who didn't? Guess work? Or do they just pick "good" guys?

Let's look at player A.

A long distinguished career. His two best HR years were in his 14th and 15th season, which coincided with being teammates with an admitted steriod user. These two seasons were almost 50% better than any other HR total of his career and better than 300% higher than the average of his years 9 through 13 and better than 1500% better than his rookie year..


Now Player B.

His two best HR seasons were years 13 and 14. He was also teammates with an admitted user but his best results were not close to that time. Those totals represented a less than 20% increase over his next best year and a 30% increase over his rookie season.

Which player was the "roider" who shouldn't get your vote and which is a lock?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

My guess is the following.

People who did abuse steroids and were CLOSE team mates with Mark Mc...said he used them. (canseco)...true or not who knows.

When taken before congress to talk...he kept saying the lame line over and over and refused to answer yes OR no if he had used steroids.

Pictures of him his first few years in the league and after that time show a pretty remarkable difference.

Now...does that mean he is 100% guilty? No...at least we have no tests to go by. But I think an educated guess would probably not be too far off the mark in his case with those things mentioned. Also who knows, maybe he was tested positive at one time but nothing was done about it. Maybe even coaches, gms or owners privately have said they knew he did it.

I think there is too much out there that suggests he did do it, compared to that which suggests he did not.

Besides...just because he might not get in now, does not mean he would not later.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Oh, I believe that McGwire used steroids. My problem is that 90% of all baseball players have used some illegal substance in their career.

You probably wouldn't want to know how many major leaguers used amphetamines while playing, including dozens of hall of famers.

Player A is Tony Gwynn by the way. Gwynn's power numbers shot through the roof late in his career. The fact that it happened to coincide with Ken Caminiti's arrival in San Diego is a coincidence? I don't know but we do know that Caminiti admitted before his death to using 'roids and other substances during his MVP season there and made comments that everybody's on something in the big leagues.

 

[joseephuss]

Maybe McGwire was only a home run hitter and not truly deserving of being of being a Hall of Famer. He hit 0.263 for his career.

There will never be concrete evidence that McGwire did steroids. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that he did. I think that not a single player has sued Jose Canseco over his book. No kind of liable suit exists that I am aware of. That says a lot.

McGwire will get in eventually. Everyone seemed to like the guy. The steroid stigma will wear off. It is hard to say that steroids were the only reason he hit homeruns because he is just a big guy. He hit 49 his rookie season. Even someone like Palmiero who has tested positive can't be looked at as taking steroids his whole career. The talk about him was how sweet his swing was coming out of college. He was looked at as a natural, smooth hitter.

The HOF is a joke. All of them all. Many rewards are jokes. The All Star game is one and HOF voters use that as a basis to judge if a player is worthy of the Hall. McGwire made the starting All Star s in 1991 when he was hitting 0.200 or lower at the time. There had to be someone more deserving than him. HOF voters won't consider that aspect when they vote, just that he was the starting All Star.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

To be honest...it really does not make much difference to me.

I am NOT a baseball fan, heck I would be happy if they did away with baseball all together lol.

And since I am not a baseball fan I am pretty ignorant of most of the players, teams and so on.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Maybe McGwire was only a home run hitter and not truly deserving of being of being a Hall of Famer. He hit 0.263 for his career.

There will never be concrete evidence that McGwire did steroids. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that he did. I think that not a single player has sued Jose Canseco over his book. No kind of liable suit exists that I am aware of. That says a lot.

McGwire will get in eventually. Everyone seemed to like the guy. The steroid stigma will wear off. It is hard to say that steroids were the only reason he hit homeruns because he is just a big guy. He hit 49 his rookie season. Even someone like Palmiero who has tested positive can't be looked at as taking steroids his whole career. The talk about him was how sweet his swing was coming out of college. He was looked at as a natural, smooth hitter.

The HOF is a joke. All of them all. Many rewards are jokes. The All Star game is one and HOF voters use that as a basis to judge if a player is worthy of the Hall. McGwire made the starting All Star s in 1991 when he was hitting 0.200 or lower at the time. There had to be someone more deserving than him. HOF voters won't consider that aspect when they vote, just that he was the starting All Star.

I agree that they should be discussing McGwire's merits as a player. The problem is that many aren't doing that, they're omitting him due to steroids and no other reason.

I do agree that a legitimate argument can be made that he doesn't belong based on his performance. When comparing him to the average player then the league leader his HR total really isn't that outstanding.

I just have a problem with writers supposing about one person without even questioning another.


And BP, I never quite understood the whole "1st ballot" deal. What makes a player in any HOF more deserving 8 years after he retired as opposed to 5. Either he belongs or he doesn't.

 

[jimmy40]

The inductees are released today.

I have a serious problem with the holier than-thou-voters ommitting McGwire from their ballots. Most cite steriod use for keeping him off. My question is how do they know who used, who didn't? Guess work? Or do they just pick "good" guys?

Let's look at player A.

A long distinguished career. His two best HR years were in his 14th and 15th season, which coincided with being teammates with an admitted steriod user. These two seasons were almost 50% better than any other HR total of his career and better than 300% higher than the average of his years 9 through 13 and better than 1500% better than his rookie year..


Now Player B.

His two best HR seasons were years 13 and 14. He was also teammates with an admitted user but his best results were not close to that time. Those totals represented a less than 20% increase over his next best year and a 30% increase over his rookie season.

Which player was the "roider" who shouldn't get your vote and which is a lock?

Either don't let steroids be an issue with the balloting or don't let anyone in the HOF that played in the last 15 years. It's BS to pick and choose who you think used or didn't. Look at Rafael Palmero sp? this guy certainly didn't looked juiced up he just looked like he had one of the sweetest swings in history.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

You probably wouldn't want to know how many major leaguers used amphetamines while playing, including dozens of hall of famers.

I said this a few days ago.

My additional comments; If they want to rip Bonds for failing an amphetamine test, they should cancel Ripken's induction. He regularly used painkillers and amphetamines during the "streak".

 

[Deputy493]

A lot of people don't like Canseco, but I believe every word of his book.

I remember when McGwire was a rookie in 1987, he was skinny as a rail, as was Bonds, and Sammy Sosa in the late 80's..........you all honestly think they weren't juicing?

 

[joseephuss]

A lot of people don't like Canseco, but I believe every word of his book.

I remember when McGwire was a rookie in 1987, he was skinny as a rail, as was Bonds, and Sammy Sosa in the late 80's..........you all honestly think they weren't juicing?

I can see where McGwire had plenty of room to bulk up after 1987. He has a pretty big frame. The indications of steroids was that he became really cut late in his career. He got bigger as he aged, which seems natural, but then he seemed to develop a body builder look.

Bonds was pretty darn good when he was just a skinny, normal head sized guy. He just became all world as he grew and his growth does not look normal.

 

[jimmy40]

A lot of people don't like Canseco, but I believe every word of his book.

I remember when McGwire was a rookie in 1987, he was skinny as a rail, as was Bonds, and Sammy Sosa in the late 80's..........you all honestly think they weren't juicing?

There's no doubt in my mind they were juicing, but who wasn't? How do you choose who was and who wasn't? Did Palmero look like a juicer? Not even close.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

There's no doubt in my mind they were juicing, but who wasn't? How do you choose who was and who wasn't? Did Palmero look like a juicer? Not even close.

Palmeiro had all the tell tale signs of using. I don't know if you remember his early years from watching the Cubbies on WGN but he had almost no pop at all in his bat early in his career.

He was a Mark Grace, sweet swing, no power.


I still say that if body type is ignored and remember not all steroid user get cut, there's more "evidence" looking at the numbers that Tony Gwynn used than McGwire.

 

[jimmy40]

Palmeiro had all the tell tale signs of using. I don't know if you remember his early years from watching the Cubbies on WGN but he had almost no pop at all in his bat early in his career.

He was a Mark Grace, sweet swing, no power.


I still say that if body type is ignored and remember not all steroid user get cut, there's more "evidence" looking at the numbers that Tony Gwynn used than McGwire.

So anyone that gets better as their career goes along is juicing? That would be about 99.99999999% of players.

 

[Concord]

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